OH NOES!

[APPLES355]

sorry i forgot about the roll center question. the front roll center was changed shortly after i bought the wheels because with the factory settings the roll center is actually beneath the ground when placed on a computer model. with the taller ats spindles and the angles with the lower control arms and upper control arms put it about 1.5" to 2" above ground. just about the same idea that some circle track guys do by buying taller ball joints to increase the upper control arm angle raising the roll center. keep in mind all these are rough measurements. all that i am trying to accomplish is to get the roll centers closer to the cg, but not to close and not identical front to rear. everything that i have done so far is a base setting and the suspension is adjustable so i can change all of them. as for the cg factory height car is around 21" and mine is probably around 17.5 -18". i havent had the scales in my hand to confirm the exact cg. as for the rear it is somewhere around the 21" mark right now, but you cant tell because of the factory swaybar has so much bind that i keeps the body from rolling on that axis. thats the only thing that would make sense because technically the front and the rear are traveling on an opposite axis. to fix this a was going to build my own watts linkage, but the problem was making the center link to withstand the lateral forces. then i found out that a company is in the final stages of starting production for a watts linkage for a g-body. the bad thing is since i have coilovers i will have to cut up their mount and weld it to my car. not that big of deal just time consuming. after the watts linkage was in i was going to have the company who does circle track swaybars make me a custom length swaybar that would fit in between the coilovers and mount to the frame with links to the rearend. i have a few more ideas, but what the point if you are going to sell the car and i will give the person who might buy it the ideas to finish it. sorry for being general and probably bad grammar, but hey it 1 oclock in the morning. goodnight! :sleep:

[DustinsDuster]

thanks for that Apples, i was waiting for you to get on here and explain all the work that has gone into your suspension...

[APPLES355]

no problem dustin. all someone had to do was just ask and you will get the answer minus any bs. vic last night i also forgot to tell you that the tires that are on the car now are the same size if not smaller. i believe they are around 25.6- 25.8" tall. so nothing should have changed with the cg when i put them on. it was when the suspension changed that i was able to play with it more. the big problem with g-body cars in the suspension department. in the rear is that even though they have the converging four link they still shift upto around a 1/2" or may just a little bit more. due to bushing deflection or if you have stock control arms. the big part with the converging four link is the issue with suspension bind and thats what make those cars so unpredictable to drive around corners. if you are also wanting to turn i would stay clear of poly bushing because they store all sorts of energy when deformed and can release that enegy at a bad time in a corner. if you doing straight line they are fine. the bushings to use in cornering are the delrin bushing because they are extremely hard and dont deform. they also allow for free movement of the control arms. the last part that sucks on g-body cars are the rear swaybar. since it is connected to the lower control arms it is the source of most of the bind. if you have driven one and hit a large bump or pot hole you can feel the whole car shift. right there is a main cause. what i did to try and fix it was that i used delrin bushing on the axle side of the lower control arms and spherical on the frame side. the upper control arms have what are called johnny joints on the frame side and stock rubber on the axle. the reason for the stock rubber is because the geometry on our suspension setup need to have a little deflection on the uppers to allow for more linear movement of the rearend. plus since the upper control the roll center of the rear. we can redefine the roll center in the rear with the watts linkage because of the larger amount of deflection of those upper bushings. if you have the money to use a watts linkage i would recommend it because the panard bar is a cheap way to locate the rear, but since its just a bar it travels in an arc which moves the rear anyway. thats why they say to put the longest bar you can to minimize how much lateral movement you have. most people wouldnt even feel the difference, but every little bit counts in my book. after that put in the custom swaybar and we no longer have the issue of binding. combining all the suspension work with lower cg and all of that has made the car extremely stable at high speed. front end alignment helped with that a lot too. for the power my car makes with the rearend gears and transmission it cruises at 110 no problem. when i get started on this stuff i can go for awhile, but i must get back to class. have a nice day!

[logans dad]

Sounds like you know your stuff Apples. Logan bought some books with all that in them but I havent looked into it much. Logan can handle that part. As far as roll centers on the IMCA car we have you cant run other then stock parts but where the top a arm mount is like spot welded our car had the metal moved witch is cheating but car was like that when we bought it and others I know have done the same. Talking about the rear trailing arms and bind our new Sportsman car has mono balls but I think most the guys in this class run them. We also have pills in them to angle the rear end.

Did I hear your taking Engineering? If so is it at Iowa or Ia. City? Logan Started there and said he loves it but he is into that. He loves math.

I also dont blame you for not talking your car Sunday. I found out tonight I have a crappy BOV that will Only let me run so much boost but Im running it anyway. This winter I will have to buy a better one.

[APPLES355]

you know vic i contemplated doing something like that to the frame just to get a better roll center height, but i was going to cut out the stock mounts and make new one with three or four different locations just to play around. the whole tools to do it thing is what haunts me right now, but that is for after school. i am not big into the circle track thing but turning is turning. i do like how you put those pills in the rear to add in turning. with the factory setup you can get it to change in angle just a little to aid turning, but probably not enough for what you guys are looking for. thats cool that logans into the whole engineering thing. its good to have another gear head engineer. yes i am going to school for engineering, but right now i am going to kirkwood to save some money and get all of my calculus, physics, chemistry, material science, etc classes out of the way. next year i head off to iowa state. this next tuesday they are hosting a tour and career day for students to meet with potential employers for co-op or interships in the summer. i hope to find something that is in the car field(suspension/electric hopefully). if logan enjoys math, science, and how things work. he will love engineering and it will help in on the race track with the knowledge he gains. if i get done early this sunday i might drive over and watch. i always liked the cedar valley street rod events.