bail them out or not? Big 3

[Domestic Disturbance]

That union is really a menace. I'm pro union, but every time I read or hear about them its usually negative. Sure, a unions interest is to protect and help benefit the workers its supports, but it must ALSO look at the better interest of the company. To help it more than hurt it. After all, if the company doesn't prevail, the union ends up worthless anyways.

[ZEE]

The unions knew the score. They new as well as everybody else that the gov wasn't going to let them go down. Why take a pay cut when the gov will for sure bail you out. Would you take a pay cut knowing the gov was going to bail you out? Of course not. To what rob said it's the legacy debt that is costing them. I mean face it these companies have been in business for a long long time. That could equate to a lot of retirees. Yes the unions negotiated the retirements for some long ago. So even if they changed things now it wouldn't effect that. Just new hires. Those people make good wages yes. Unions usually help the industry as a whole whether a union shop or not. Non union shops must raise their wages to a certain level to discourage organization and to attract employees. Another thing, the gov bailed out the banking industry for their poor practices so why not the auto industry also.

You hear nothing about management either. You think any of them are going to give up their overbloated salaries? I think not. It's way to easy to blame the working man. Companies that large I bet have an incredible upper management force which probably isn't needed. Let's get rid of some of them instead of the people that actually do all the work.

The only way the auto industry is going to get out of the mess they are in is some form of bankruptcy. Good thing is they can get out of some of the retirement debts and other contracts, including union ones. Bad news government may end up paying the retirement debt, read tax payers. Also loss of jobs and plants. But hey if that's what it takes to get back to being profitable building the cars the gov wants, not the people, so be it. I say pull the stupid cafe standards and drop the save the earth global warming bull and let the industry build cars people will buy. Nobody wants a hybrid that won't pay for itself or an unreliable unproven electric car. Last I looked there isn't any place to plug the damn thing in at the parking lot.

[DustinsDuster]

maybe the big three need to have a meeting with the Bobs (im too lazy to put any effort into the photoshop)

[Domestic Disturbance]

As far as I know all the heads at gm are on a $1/year salarie as of now. It is narrow minded of me to look at one thing and call it the problem, when obviously its across the board that brought them down to this point. Btw, hyrdogen cars are just around the corner. Its actually a simple and reliable setup, that doesn't take hours to charge. Jay Leno put it best on Top Gear last week. That direction will save more gas for those of us who will still want and use it. Nothing wrong with that

[69gt4speed]

I agree w Zee it isn't really the real worker.

A very pro foreign car coworker came in work the other day and said damn Rob u were right, they are not making any mo money than us per hr. Their benefits are better... But look at 95% pay chrysler workers get on shut down, I'd be mighty happy to shut down. But maybe that's only a 40hr week who knows? I work 56 hrs mostly. I will work 56 + 24 this week. That's $, a big deal for sure. Tired, sh-tty, and stinking, yea that's what it takes to support us/kids and my hobbies and bs. And yes so far haven't seen any plugins in our parking lot for the green co. We are non union but to keep it that way we are paid a lil more per hr. That's the deal truly..W/o them we wouldn't be making jack imo. Esp for maint. it's overhead so they say, we keep their stuff running and making $...Idk w/o lowly workers, they could not exist. So imo we are mo valuable than many management ppl. We know what to do and do it. If we and ops do crappy we get less hrs or shut down. That's Stupid... So imo problems are elsewhere.

Buy our products, see the mod/ls/hemi spanking some vehicle. That's my plug for our co. and for the big 3.

[ZEE]

Hydrogen cars may be around the corner but who's gonna buy one. You? Me? Doubt it. Some body with plenty of money to buy a very expensive to make and buy car that is untested and not as reliable as the old gas burning engine that has been tried and true for a couple of hundred years. Not to mention who the hell is going to work on it when it breaks. Don't think tuffys is gonna handle that one. These types of cars may be around the corner but it will be another 50 years before good old Joe Shmoe can afford to buy and maintain one.

[Domestic Disturbance]

The Hydrogen market is so appealing not only due to the fact of the resources' abundance, but the simplicity of the design. Very few moving parts, and relatively easy to understand and fix, and simplicity leading to keep the overall vehicle prices down.

Obviously, with a brand new platform of vehicle dumping into the market, there will be some additional expenses, but its still a much more logical and cost effective option compared to other 'answers' to using gasoline vehicles. All in all, it really depends on how well the auto industry and most likely gov't can introduce such a radical direction. Shifting from gas to hydrogen stations, learning how to work on them, means to separate hydrogen molecules and get the compressed hyrdogen, along with transporting it along with still having gasoline in the market; thats where the majority of expenses would be.

[Clinical]

Let them die - I'll buy a Saab and just put my money on never having to buy a new car in my lifetime :P