Statewide Smoking Ban Approved

[Ashley]

DES MOINES (AP) - The Legislature has approved a statewide ban on indoor smoking.

The bill now heads to Governor Culver, who has pledged to sign it into law. That means thousands of bars, restaurants and other public facilities would become smoke-free by July 1st. Casinos, however, are exempt from the ban.

The vote Tuesday in the House and Senate ends a debate that has raged all year at the Statehouse. Supporters have said the ban will save countless lives and boost public health, while critics worried about trampling business owners' rights.

Twenty-nine other states already have smoking bans.

A coalition of health, medical and consumer groups pushed for Iowa to join that list. If approved by Culver, the smoking ban would be enforced on a complaint basis by the Department of Public Health. An initial fine will be $100.

Rep. Phil Wise of Keokuk said he was voting yes because "this is a life and death issue and I am going to vote on the side of life."

The measure banning indoor smoking contains exemptions, including:
-Casinos, but only on the gambling area and betting floor. Bars and restaurants in casinos would be covered by the ban.

-The Iowa Veterans Home at Marshalltown.

-Private residences, unless they are used for child care or health care.

-Hotels and motels could set aside 20 percent of their rooms for smokers.

-Retail tobacco stores, and private clubs that have no employees.

-Private and semi-private rooms in long-term care facilities.

-Outdoor areas that are places of employment.

-Limousines under private hire.

-Farm tractors and farm trucks when being used for their intended purpose

-Enclosed areas within a place of employment that provides a smoking cessation program.

Here is the roll call vote by which the House approved a compromise plan to ban indoor smoking in the state, exempting only casinos and the Iowa Veterans Home. (A "YES' vote indicates support for the smoking ban; a "NO" vote indicates opposition.

DEMOCRATS VOTING "YES" (45)
Abdul-Samad, Bell, Berry, Bukta, Cohoon, Dandekar, Davitt, Foege, Ford, Frevert, Gaskill, Gayman, Heddens, Hunter, Jacoby, Jochum, Kelley, Kressig, Kuhn, Lensing, Mascher, McCarthy, Miller, Murphy, Oldson, D. Olson, R. Olson, T. Olson, Palmer, Petersen, Reasoner, Reichert, Shomshor, Smith, Staed, Swaim, D. Taylor, T. Taylor, Wendt, Wessel-Kroeschell, Whitaker, Whitead, Winckler, Wise and Zirkelbach.

DEMOCRATS VOTING "NO" (8)
Bailey, Huser, Lykam, Mertz, Quirk, Schueller, Thomas and Wenthe.

REPUBLICANS VOTING "YES" (9)
Anderson, Baudler, Clute, Jacobs, May, Rayhons, Schickel, Tomenga and Wiencek.

REPUBLICANS VOTING "NO" (37)
Alons, Arnolds, Boal, Chambers, De Boef, Deyoe, Dolecheck, Drake, Forristall, Gipp, Granzow, Grassley, Greiner, Heaton, Hoffman, Horbach, Huseman, Kaufmann, Lukan, Miller, S. Olson, Paulsen, Pettengill, Raecker, Rants, Rasmussen, Roberts, Sands, Soderberg, Struyk, Tjepkes, Tymeson, Van Engelenhoven, Van Fossen, Watts, Windschitl and Worthan.

DEMOCRATS NOT VOTING (0)

REPUBLICANS NOT VOTING (1)
Upmeyer

Here is the roll call vote by which the Senate approved the bill.
DEMOCRATS VOTING "YES" (25)
Appel, Beall, Bolkcom, Connolly, Courtney, Danielson, Dearden, Dvorsky, Fraise, Gronstal, Hatch, Hogg, Horn, Kibbie, McCoy, Olive, Quirmbach, Ragan, Rielly, Schmitz, Schoenjahn, Seng, Stewart, Warnstadt and Wood.

DEMOCRATS VOTING "NO" (5)
Black, Dotzler, Hancock, Heckroth and Kreiman.

REPUBLICANS VOTING "YES" (1)
Lundby

REPUBLICANS VOTING "NO" (19)
Angelo, Behn, Boettger, Gaskill, Hahn, Hartsuch, Houser, Johnson, Kettering, McKibben, McKinley, Mulder, Noble, Putney, Seymour, Ward, Wieck, Zaun and Zieman.

Republicans Larry Noble, R-Ankeny, and Pat Ward, R-West Des Moines, voted against the compromise smoking ban, but then voted for the overall measure on final passage.

-------------------------

I just wanted to get everyone's take on this. I'm excited, because I don't smoke and now I can finally go out and do stuff without having to take a shower as soon as I get home and wash my clothes a million times [assuming Culver signs the bill]. Anyway, just wanted to see what you guys think. :)

[Drifte]

So this is entirely state wide? because I am totally down with a smoking ban everywhere in the world if I could.

[Ashley]

yeah, assuming Culver signs it (which he said he would) then it would be state-wide.

so basically.. bars, bowling alleys, restaurants, etc... all smoke free. the only place you could really smoke is outside, in your house, in your car, at the casinos, and at the vets home. everything else is smoke free.

[Drifte]

thats freakin awesome.

[Scott]

Thats the biggest bunch of shit!! If you dont like the smoke in a bar, go to the non-smoking section!!!

[Drifte]

or...now i dont have to!

[Scott]

Hey better watch it man, first we lose our right to smoke, you wouldnt be so happy if you lost your right to drink, who knows whats next... I can see alot of bars closing because of this, mainly the ones that dont serve food or the smaller ones..
Do you complain about smelling like gas or oil when you leave the racetrack, or your eyes burning from nitro out of a top fuel dragster??? Its part of going to the race track, and if you go to a bar that allows smoking, YOUR GONNA SMELL LIKE SMOKE, if you dont like it dont go :butthead:

[TbTalon94]

I'm all for a smoke free environment, and I do see where your coming from Scott. I think that this bill is mostly for restaraunts and other things like that. Not everyone goes to a bar and picks up second-hand smoke there. It's everywhere. Sorry but there is nothing wrong with someone stepping outside to have a smoke.

Drinking doesn't harm others unless the person drinking does so. A smoker doesn't choose where their smoke goes and a non-smoker can't chose what air to breathe. Smoking/Tobacco is one of the leading killers in the world. I don't see any harm with taking it out of public areas. They aren't taking your "right" away. They just say you can't kill others...step outside and smoke.

[Scott]

Yeah that does make sense, but you know as well as me that as long are people complain they are going to try and fix it, just like drunk people being stupid and starting fights, how do you stop that? ban drinking.. Since you dont smoke you are all for it, but you do have a choice on what air you breathe, spy bar in marion is half non-smoking already. There is places out there just not many for those who dont like smoke, I guess I am just looking at it as the start of many more bad things to come.. Theres many things in the world that people dont like and are bad for your health, where does it stop?

[Drifte]

They already ran tests to see if it would have any effect on business;. So far none have had any effect. I could care less if they shut down bars entirely really. I live an apt. so I only go because I cant be loud at my own place. Smoking is an unnecessary habit, and its bad for you. I really dont see why it should be allowed for people to publicly spread cancer. Lots of my friends smoke, hell both of my brothers smoke; people make bad decisions everyday, not much I can do about it. If you think about it..what fast food restaurant allows you to smoke inside? So many people out their develop a habit of smoking when at bars, and this is one nice way to avoid bad habits I think. It is kind of stepping over the bounds here, but Im for this one.

[TbTalon94]

There are dry counties out there...quite a few actually. Honestly drinking alcohol is your decision to kill yourself, smoking is your decision to kill yourself and potentially killing others without doing anything (drunk driving).

Honestly I want smoking ban because I've seen way to many people die or have health problems just because of a stupid addiction. My mother is one of them. I'm just waiting for the day to hear she has lung cancer. I hope if they do ban it that she will finally wake up and get enough courage to stop. There is nothing good to come from smoking. Period. Now you can say that about alcohol, but again I say the person chosing to drink is hurting their own liver, not everyone else's around them

[black88gt]

Hey better watch it man, first we lose our right to smoke, you wouldnt be so happy if you lost your right to drink, who knows whats next

ah the slippery slope. our rights are slowly eroding away, surrendering them slowly to the government.

"in government we trust" right?

[JustinS]

No way in hell I will support that bill. I hate smoking as much as the next person, but I also HATE having more government regulations imposed on us citizens. Sorry folks, it's dumb as all hell.

[DustinsDuster]

Hey better watch it man, first we lose our right to smoke, you wouldnt be so happy if you lost your right to drink, who knows whats next

they already waived my right to drink in public. fuckers.

[biohazard]

No way in hell I will support that bill. I hate smoking as much as the next person, but I also HATE having more government regulations imposed on us citizens. Sorry folks, it's dumb as all hell.


I agree wholeheartedly. We don't need any government to be our mom. I don't smoke (only on special occasions and only 1 cigar), but I don't like where this could be headed.

[McKeever]

I'm cool with government doing whatever they want on there own land, but stay the hell away from privately owned places. Let the people that own the property decide if smoking should be allowed or not. Regulations like this suffocate businesses, and are a drain on the economy. Look at all the regulations communist countries have and how great their economy is.

I don't smoke, and sometimes I'll eat at smoky place. I don't have to eat at those places; it's my choice to go there. The some goes for the employees that work at smoky places, they don't have to work there, they choose to work there.

The whole argument that alcohol doesn’t hurt others like smoking does, is a bunch of bull shit. I'm pretty confident is saying the more people die everyday because as a result of drunk individuals doing dumb things, than people dieing because of second hand smoke. For example how many people do you know of that were killed or nearly killed by a drunk driver or a drunk individual gunning down someone? How many people to you know of that were killed or nearly killed by second hand smoke?

[Talon92Fox]

I'd have to agree with Trevor and Colton. I don't even see a real point or advantage in smoking, it calms you down if you're pissed off or anxious but there are other ways to help it than smoking. If anything, it might make the bars more lively, (sp?) I know a few people who don't go to them just because of all the smoke, which is understandable.
So I support this bill, just as long as it doesn't lead to another prohibition of alcohol...

Second-Hand Smoke Facts:
http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35422

[Drifte]

I can see how people view it as an intrusion. Theirs always around things like that. Strip clubs cant sell beer, now bars cant have smokers...They will find a way. LIke the outdoor patios and such that are heated for winter etc. But those who say they are going to lose business have to think of those who dont or cant go to bars because of smoke. Like me I have asthma, I know what bars I can go to and wont get smoked out. Minnesota has passed this bill, I dont think they are suffering.

[RandomHero]

No smoking ban EH?

[96-eclipse-gst]

When a drunk driver crashes and kills another person. The effects are immediate. When I breathe the air caused by smokers. The effects are not immediate and are not seen by the naked eye. Second hand smoke can cause respiratory illnesses, HELL it can even lead to LUNG CANCER!! I choose not to smoke but still those around me and those I LOVE are killing me. You can't just say hey "how many people do you know who have been killed by second hand smoke"

How about maybe those who have lived shorter lives due to second hand smoke.

When I was a baby, I contracted really bad bronchitis. They traced it back to my dad's smoking. They basically said, if you don't stop smoking, your going to kill your only son. My dad quit COLD TURKEY.

Now, my grandpa smoked for years. Passed away due to a heart attack. Not enough exercise and the smoking made it worse. My great grandma JUST passed away becuz of smoking. My grandma smokes like a chimney STILL, I use to tell her that she was only hurting herself and us by smoking. Now I can't bring myself to tell her that again because I know she knows, but she can't stop. She's addicted.

I agree with Trevor, his mom is my aunt. Hell our uncle, smokes so much we know he isn't going to be around too many more years. I know exactly how he feels. I have way too many family members that have died, or will die because of smoking. Its a complete and utter waste, absolutely no point. Ban it.

[belittle]

I fully support the ban. There is not one bar in Iowa City that is smoke free and I am going to fucking love it when this bill passes. The last thing I will EVER do is smoke. I lost one of the best people in my life to smoking and nothing good has ever come out of smoking. I take one breath of smoke and I have an instant headache not to mention your clothes STINK.

[ZacFields]

I'm partial to this bill. As a republican, thus someone who is sick and tired of government intervention, I can't say that I really like the idea. It represents something that I want the government to move away from.

At the same time, I'm a non-smoker and I don't like the idea of "If you don't like it, don't go there" because it's just not that easy. I'll admit the idea of never having to take a big whiff of exhaled smoke while the waitress is walking me to my table will be nice.

One thing that everyone has to admit: Aside from bars and bowling alleys, it has slowly become somewhat taboo to smoke in a restuarant or any other place anyways. Most restaurants have a "smoking" and "non smoking" section, but it seems if you go into a restaurant now, you'd see a lot less smoke floating around than if you went to the same restaurant 10 years ago.

[lil krumm]

i think its bull shit. no smoking in the bars!!! there goes all teh business where i work. rednecks smoke while they drink, and if they have to go out side to smoke they will just leave while theyre out there. these small town bars are gonna get fucked by this.

[sLoWnStEaDy]

about fuckin time... I for one am sick of going out and not being able to breathe, having my eyes burn like hell and then once i get home if i dont throw my clothes in the washer ASAP my whole house smells like shit for a month. This may seem kinda wierd to a few people who knoe me and know that i actualy smoked throughout most of high school. After i quite i just became extremely sensetive to it...
My buddy got to to smoke once again about a year ago and i blew chunks for about 20 minutes. Then i decided to try a dip and threw up for about an hour and got a splitting ass head ache! Not to mention there are a ton of "hotties" I would/could have taken home but didn't because they smelled like a frikkin ash tray (even thoought they weren't smokers themselves)... Plus i like bar food, probably more now that it doesnt all taste like fuckin smoke!!

So to you smokers, i say :neener:

[DustinsDuster]

i think the thing to remember(for those who are against it anyway), it's hard to classify smoking with other things. smoking in a closed area affects so many things around you, you cant say that about many things. i mean, i know a lot of smokers who would support the ban in restaurants because they hate the taste and smell of smoke around their food.

and if you're still pissed off at the bill, think of it like this: think of all the money you'll save now!

[TbTalon94]

Them passing the bill won't make smokers quit. They can still smoke, just not in public areas. Which should be common sense anyway if you care about the people around you.

Also the alcohol/2nd hand smoke thing. The point I was making is that alcohol only hurts the person drinking....IF that person controls themselves. So this does not include drunk driving, or anything like that. I'm simply stating that me having a drink of alcohol isn't going to hurt the person standing next to me unless I hurt them physically/intentionally. It's not like a smoker takes a puff and is thinking "man this is going to screw this guy up so bad". 2nd hand smoke and smoking kills more people period then alcohol related effects ever will (again not including personal acts like drunk driving, etc.).

[Scott]

I guess I must not be looking at this the right way, I just look at it and think about the stuff goverment keeps taking away from us. I mean short term it sounds like people will like it, but once you start loosing more rights your views will change. I dont know how many times I hear people say "I wish I lived in the 60's" and why is it that?? Probably because of lack of rules and regulations, back when the cops would pull you over and tell you to dump out your booze before you hurt someone. For more FREEDOM.. Not throw you in jail and pull your license and cost you thousands of dollars, people were more laid back, now people bitch so much about evrything we cant even smoke inside.. I doubt that everyone is looking forward to the future and saying "God I cant wait for the future when we arent allowed to smoke in cars, drink in restaurants, and have more freedoms taken away" Im just saying to be carefull what you ask for, there is ALWAYS going to be something to bitch about, whether its smoke, drunks, smog, speeding, gambling...ETC, ETC

[sLoWnStEaDy]

See, you are looking at it like they are taking YOUR (smokers) right away... I look at it as they are FINALY enforceing MY (non-smokers) right to try and live a healthier life.

May be if we (man kind) had a little more self-control and cared a little more about the people around us there would be no need for the government to get involved. Don't get me wrong, i am not saying i think "the man" should be able to control every aspect of our lives however when something that you do is slowly killing everyone around you then i agree with them stepping in.

and as far as the 60's-70's go when everyone was "laid back"... well, i think we all know why that was. Not to mention it was just a much different time before we new that everything is killing us in one way or another. the "muscle car era", while BAD ASS i believe is a big factor in the issues we are facing today. "IGNORANCE IS BLISS"

[JustinS]

See, you are looking at it like they are taking YOUR (smokers) right away... I look at it as they are FINALY enforceing MY (non-smokers) right to try and live a healthier life.
I'm a non smoker and I agree with every word Scott is saying, what do you have to say about that?

One day you will all look back on this and kick yourselves because it's only going to lead to more and more regulations. Don't bitch to me about this stuff when they feel the need to impose more restrictions on us.

<puts on tin foil hat> lol

[TbTalon94]

Keith pretty much nailed it on the head right there. 100%

[ZEE]

This is going to be really great. Now there will be 50 drunks outside every bar throwing cigarette buts everywhere and pissin in the streets. :roll:..........That's what I would be doing if I still smoked.

[Scott]

I hope the Govt and cops can find more ways to protect us from ourselves!!! :bigthumb: I guess they dont make enough money from DUI's and speeding tickets

[Ashley]

Here's the thing: nobody ever complains about not being able to drink in their cars. Why? Because it's a dumbass thing to do, which could potentially kill other people.

You smoke in a bar (an enclosed area) you're affecting others around you and potentially killing other people. Theoretically, it's the same thing as drinking in your car. I just think it's funny smoker's think they have a "right" to smoke wherever they want, even if it's potentially hurting other people... yet no one complains about their "right" to drink wherever they want.

My dad has smoked since he was in high school, and still does. My mom and brother have a condition that affects their lungs, and they get really sick if they're around smoke - can't breathe, coughing til they throw up, choking, etc.. it's not pretty. If I'm around smoke, I basically have an asthma attack. So, my dad goes outside or in his car to smoke. Is it a big deal for him? Nope, he just does it. I don't understand why it's so hard for people to understand that smoking can hurt other people, and be considerate enough to avoid it.

And it's not as simple as going to a nonsmoking establishment.. I loooove to bowl. But because there's a fog of smoke inside every stupid bowling alley, I can't go. So because I can't be around smoke, why should that mean I can't go bowling? It's the same with non-smoking restaurants.. just because there's a non-smoking "section" doesn't mean the smoke isn't still in the air.

I agree with what Keith said, too. I have a RIGHT to go to whatever restaurant I want or whatever bowling alley I want, etc. and not get sick. If that means people with a disgusting addiction have to freeze their asses off outside just to get a nicotine fix, then so be it. :P

Oh, and one last thing.. it's not going to hurt any business. Other states have the same ban in place, and they were fine. If smokers are going to whine and be babies and stay home, then fine. But there are going to be a LOT of non-smokers (like me) who are going to want to go out more that it will make up for the handful of whiny smokers that stay home.

[JustinS]

I may be ultra paranoid about the government imposing regulations on my life, but do not take that to mean that I can't see the positives in the bill. I hate smoke just the same as the rest of you, I just prefer the least amount of control the "man" has over me as possible.

[TbTalon94]

but they are only "controlling" one side of the table here. They are taking a "right" away from a group and giving a "right" to another group. The right they are taking away hurts people, the right they are giving allows people to enjoy life better. Gee stupid idea? I think not.

[JustinS]

You're letting emotions affect your decision.

If you want to make the argument that this piece of legislation is based upon being for the "greater good" of Iowa please explain to me why casinos are being excluded. No wait, I'll tell you, we have a money hungry government that is scared to ban it in casinos (due to fear of lost tax revenues). All hail the lobbyists! :roll:

Chet Culver is a shitty Governor, and shouldn't have been elected in the first place.

[Scott]

Now the bingo hall is gonna need smoke breaks every 5 minutes!!!! SHIT :banghead: I can see it now, all the non smokers are going to be outside the bar to talk to their friends who smoke while still complaining!! :help: then what? no smoking outside? Its like a Ford Chevy argument here, the reasoning is always irrelevant through the eyes of the enemy, and we cannot change each others opions.. Its your decision to visit smoking places not mine :baby:

[Ashley]

Here's the thing.. only about 20% of Iowans smoke. Smokers are the minority, so why should the majority be forced to suffer? Now it's your decision to visit nonsmoking places.. if you don't like it, stay home, just like the nonsmokers have always had to do. Sucks to be on the other side, doesn't it?

[Drifte]

hehe harsh but funny. Im finally on the good end of the stick. or however that saying goes lol

[Scott]

Yeah it sucks, but I dont think you understand the reason, its just because of the fact that all these controlling rules and regulations are getting rediculous and its not stopping at all because everyone thinks its for the good and not looking at the whole picture and what it means for the future... Its not about smoking, its about the all the controlling rules and regulations... I have been told so many times by the city and shit about what I CANT do, cant build my garage too big, cant smoke at the bar, cant start my car after 9, and I think it sucks thats so many people encourage this stuff and no one listens to people who oppose, or better yet dont give them a chance to... I know there is nothing I can do about it, but these are things to think about when you are celebrating new rules and regulations being put in place. I have been to the court house trying to defend stuff a few times already. Once they tried to OUTLAW r/c cars and boats from the little lake down off Ellis because a couple people complained, its a damn good thing someone noticed this and he actually got enough people down there to oppose it and change their mind.. I know its off topic but its something to keep in mind..

[Drifte]

We have to have so many rules because of all the idiots and inconsiderate people. Were not all living life on the same time frame. Your really shouldnt start a car without exhaust late at night, its common courtesy. If you want more freedom for things like that you move out to the sticks. Even then you will get some complaints, but we have some very strange neighbors.

yea, freedom is nice, but ya really have to look at it from a lot of different views. That thing with someone trying to ban rc toys, thats an example of a stupid person. Either a stupid person was doing it at 3am, or a stupid person could hear the car and decided they shouldnt have to (at a reasonable time).

[Scott]

The stupid person is the one who listened to the complaint and decided "hey we better ban these things" which would be the city. My car has exhaust, I cant even drive it into my damn garage at night without my neighbors calling the cops.. Im really just venting about people complaining thats all.. I have never and probably never will complain about this type of petty shit "or really anything that I can think of at this point" because its really not that big of a deal and I dont want other people suffering because Im being picky.

[ZacFields]

I'm still on both sides of this argument. As an avid non-smoker republican, this debate is about enough to make my head explode.

I wouldn't really call this a gateway to new laws being created. I can see what Scott's saying about one day a law being passed that you can no longer drink in restaurants or something, but I don't really think that will stem from this smoking ban law.

Stupid restraints/laws like these aren't what make me paranoid. I'm paranoid that sometime in the not-so-distant future I'm going to be paying taxes for everything that I usually just choose to buy now. I can see my life being no better than it is now, and getting a much lower percentage of my income due to bloated and excessive government programs. I can see tax raises for healthcare, social security, medicare, etc. Eventually they'll find more stuff they can add to the government and raise our taxes for.

I think this stuff is the least of our worries about losing our freedom. I'm just scared of getting only 25% of my paycheck and being issued government EVERYTHING rather than being able to select my own products and services. To me, that's the biggest freedom we can lose.

[ZEE]

You're letting emotions affect your decision.

If you want to make the argument that this piece of legislation is based upon being for the "greater good" of Iowa please explain to me why casinos are being excluded. No wait, I'll tell you, we have a money hungry government that is scared to ban it in casinos (due to fear of lost tax revenues). All hail the lobbyists! :roll:



Some one sees the big picture. Any rules and regulations the state can come up with as long as it doesn't effect them.


I see both sides of the argument here. The smokers don't want to be discriminated against by taking something away from them that they have always had. You can't blame them for that can you. The non smokers don't want to smell or smell like smoke and don't want to lose that extra few hours of life that second hand smoke probably takes from them. I've always thought it should be the business that decides. After all it is there business. If they allow smoking and you don't like it, don't frequent that establishment. The business is there to make as much profit as they can. Obviously they make more money by allowing smoking. Most of there business probably comes from smokers. If it didn't they wouldn't allow it. The market dictates it. If the government would have left it alone there probably would have been some non-smoking bars popping up or converting. Just like the restaurants. Alot of them have already gone non smoking. The government keeps treating us like victims and that we need they're help. That's how they want to control you. They want you to feel like a victim. If I was worried about second hand smoke I would try my best to stay away from it. I'm a big boy, I can take care of myself. A little whiff here and there isn't going to harm me. Maybe if I was exposed to it day in and day out I would be concerned. But if that was the case I would change that scenario on my own with out the government trying to save me. I'm a big boy I can take care of myself. Take control of your own life. Don't let the government do it for you.

I used to smoke. I quit a 2 and a half pack a day habit. I quit out of fear. My health was going to shit and it truly scared me. I haven't smoked in 12 years. With the cost of smokes I don't see why people smoke anymore anyway. The best thing I can see with this smoking ban is maybe it will be another deterant for the young kids to not start in the first place.

[sLoWnStEaDy]

not a personal attack or anything but...

Scott, do you have any children? I have one year old son and i cansay if my neighbor had no exhaust on his car and started it up late at night i woudl be EXTREMELY pissed! When i lived with my dad on 16th ave S.W. we lived directly next door to a Scott that races out at Hawkeye Downs, the dude would start up his stock car and rev the piss out of it all the time. Sometimes in the middle of the day, sometimes at 10pm and sometimes at 2am or later. Simple answer put an exhaust on your car :butthead:


NOW BACK TO THE TOPIC

look at some numbers:
If i remember correctly i believe something like 21.3% or so of the United States population are "smokers". The U.S. population is roughly 301,139,947 people of which 20.2% are age 14 or younger so they cannot be smokers, which leaves about 240,309,677 people age 15+. Of that we will take our 21.3% (even though some aren't legaly able to smoke so...) which means there are roughly 51,185,961 smokers as apposed to 241,953,986 non smokers. Last i checked this country was run by democracy, if you dont like it, go to China, Cuba, Laos, North Korea or vietnam you communist bastard(s) :bigthumb:

[Drifte]

theirs a lot of good points going either way. It does seem like it ought to be the business choice. But at the same time, it is a democracy that runs this place.

...maybe running it to the ground but we'll know when we get their.

[JustinS]

Last i checked this country was run by democracy, if you dont like it, go to China, Cuba, Laos, North Korea or vietnam you communist bastard(s) :bigthumb:
Technically this Government is leading towards Communism per this definition:

2. (often initial capital letter) a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party.
And I hate when this country is referred to as a Democracy, we're a Republic dammit.

I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
True we've strayed away from this notion, but it still holds true that we are a Republic.

[ZEE]

look at some numbers:
If i remember correctly i believe something like 21.3% or so of the United States population are "smokers". The U.S. population is roughly 301,139,947 people of which 20.2% are age 14 or younger so they cannot be smokers, which leaves about 240,309,677 people age 15+. Of that we will take our 21.3% (even though some aren't legaly able to smoke so...) which means there are roughly 51,185,961 smokers as apposed to 241,953,986 non smokers. Last i checked this country was run by democracy, if you dont like it, go to China, Cuba, Laos, North Korea or vietnam you communist bastard(s) :bigthumb:

The numbers you need to look at are the numbers of the people that pay to drink at those establishments. What is the ratio of smokers to non smokers of the paying customers.

Say someone builds a hog facility next to my house. They stink, everybody knows it. Who is in the right. Hog farmer has a right to make a living. He doesn't need to guarantee your air quality. But the only thing I could do would be to move.

If this was a democratic society why is the government trying to control every aspect of my life. That's socialism.

[sLoWnStEaDy]

Say someone builds a hog facility next to my house. They stink, everybody knows it. Who is in the right. Hog farmer has a right to make a living. He doesn't need to guarantee your air quality. But the only thing I could do would be to move.


Yes, that is the same... You knw because a hog factory is going to give you cancer and/or kill you...

[McKeever]

This bill is so retarded, I'm shocked that they just didn’t add to it that people are no longer able to smoke in there own house, because that's pretty much the same thing as telling business owners how to run there joint.

[Scott]

I am not about to get off topic again on this thread but no I dont have kids "except for the dirt mod and the 9sec mustang in the garage" but hey I am not gonna get into a pissing match over the internet about this because we cant change each others mind anyway so why bother. I just want you all to remember this because I am 100% certain things like this will affect you in the long run and you will wonder what the hell happened..

[JustinS]

Yes, that is the same... You knw because a hog factory is going to give you cancer and/or kill you...
It's the same basic concept, look at the big picture. :roll:

[TbTalon94]

Look guys we all see the big picture. Just in this situation they are trying to extend people's health and well-being. Not taking away a right. You can still smoke, you just have to do it where you can't kill people. Simple as that. If any of you don't think 2nd hand smoke kills people then you need to just step away from the keyboard and walk into on-comming traffic because you are a retard.

All of us arguing that this bill is good is simply because smoking kills. Period. Shit i wish they would ban it all together and make it illegal to smoke anywhere. There is absolutly not ONE thing positive from smoking. Marujana, alcohol, and other drugs usually have some positive somewhere...sometimes. But Tobacco has zero positive effects, and that's the end of the story. They are trying to save peoples lives and i'm 100% for that. You guys have to look at the big picture. They are saving lives...not taking away a right.

[sLoWnStEaDy]

lets see if this helps with my point at all or if i fukker it all up...

We have the right to bare arms. Does that mean if 51,185,961 people walk around town shooting in everywhich direction that the only chose the rest of us have is to "move" or find safety somewhere because if we don't our health/life will be at risk?
So if we go on a hunting retreat or something of the sort where pretty much everyone has guns but 21.3% of them want to shoot rounds off into crowds of people and into mid air that we should "look at the ratio" of people who pay to hunt that also want to shoot aimlessly as apposed to people who just went to be in the wilderness with the friends/family...?

Now don't take that the wrong way, i am not at ALL against the rigth to bare arms by any means! I own several myself, just trying to see how you (or anyone) can say well the majority of people who pay to drink at bars smoke so tough titties to the rest.... I for one do not think this is going to be such a big deal. If people want to go out and drink they will, they are not going to let the fact that they cannot smoke make them stay at home and drink alone. We all know this "arguement" isn't going to go anywhere because it is just as bad as a democrat/republican party arguement...

If the damn republicans would just admit they are wrong adn convert... :bigthumb:
(seriously, THAT was a joke, do not turn this into a political thread!!!)

[foxsgurl]

Well I guess that i dont really mind that this is going on. Im not a huge smoker...i only smoke in the car or on my balcony. I smoke when i drink sometimes in the bars but i dont a lot because it makes me sick. I kinda am happy tho because now there will be less ppl getting burned because stupid drunks in the bar wont be flailing their cigarettes everywhere. I dont think that a lot of ppl will follow it tho. I mean how are just a handful of bartenders and bouncers going to be able to watch soo many ppl to make sure that they are not smoking or underage drinking??? I agree with Fox tho....they better not bring the prohibition back or im killing someone! Not really but ill be sooooo pissed!

[Drifte]

That was my question I came up with at the Hub last night. How exactly are they going to inforce this? I imagine they will say, no smoking...if they find you smoking. Unless the gov't will fine for it, then they will be jerks about it. I hope they dont have cops perusing through the bars now looking for smokers and underagers.

[Ricky]

they say that if they get a complaint they cops are going to go check it out and fine the person but its not going to be treated like underage drinking. there not going to randomly show up and look for smokers.

I believe that when they are looking for underage drinkers they will look for smokers too but for the most part it means the more complaints on smoking the cops get the faster i can go on the interstate.

[96-eclipse-gst]

Justin and Scott if you haven't already noticed the government has us all by the balls already. They can go in to your house without a warrant, WITHOUT YOU EVEN BEING THERE and arrest you if they find anything. Hold you without charges indefinitely. All because you may be a terrorist. Wake up guys, war on terrorism. Who's the enemy. Paint me a face. Its just a way to go to war on anyone and everyone they hate.

If you guys want to watch a REALLY interesting movie. Youtube and type in "Zeitgeist"

Blow your mind away.

[JustinS]

Oh I know they have us by the balls already, I'm about ready to give up and move to the middle of nowhere like Montana and just live on my own. Our government is so corrupt and full of bullshit that I'm surprised there hasn't been some form of revolt. Just another example of the pussification of our country.

<in no way am I trying to start one, fuck off homeland security>

[ZEE]

Just another example of the pussification of our country.



Amen to that. Viva le revolution. :hedbang:

[Scott]

LOL, pussification of our country.. thats a good one

[zz4guy]

I am 110% against our facist legislators in DSM implementing this but I can't wait to see how it will play out after July 1. How in the HELL are they going to enforce this rule out in the middle of nowhere? Think about the little 8 stool bars in the middle of nowhere Iowa. I really hope the good-ole boy rules take over there.

[DustinsDuster]

I am 110% against our facist legislators in DSM implementing this but I can't wait to see how it will play out after July 1. How in the HELL are they going to enforce this rule out in the middle of nowhere? Think about the little 8 stool bars in the middle of nowhere Iowa. I really hope the good-ole boy rules take over there.

i am 100% for that. because i'll never go to those bars...

[Ashley]

I'm a big fan of the saying...

If you don't like it, LEAVE.

:)

[Stutz]

Justin and Scott if you haven't already noticed the government has us all by the balls already. They can go in to your house without a warrant, WITHOUT YOU EVEN BEING THERE and arrest you if they find anything. Hold you without charges indefinitely. All because you may be a terrorist. Wake up guys, war on terrorism. Who's the enemy. Paint me a face. Its just a way to go to war on anyone and everyone they hate.

If you guys want to watch a REALLY interesting movie. Youtube and type in "Zeitgeist"

Blow your mind away.

Patriot acts 1 and 2 FTL! What a crappy idea it was to give up our basic rights to fight the "terrorists" I wonder if there were anyother times in history where a government had its people give up their rights to fight a "fear"

[69gt4speed]

Hey better watch it man, first we lose our right to smoke, you wouldnt be so happy if you lost your right to drink, who knows whats next... I can see alot of bars closing because of this, mainly the ones that dont serve food or the smaller ones..
Do you complain about smelling like gas or oil when you leave the racetrack, or your eyes burning from nitro out of a top fuel dragster??? Its part of going to the race track, and if you go to a bar that allows smoking, YOUR GONNA SMELL LIKE SMOKE, if you dont like it dont go :butthead:

I'm not going to read 4 pgs, too tired now put in 13.5hrs. but imo the min gov tells you what to do it's mostly bad based upon history. Think about it, oh someone gets a gun goes off and shoots someone same deal as smoking, 2nd hand injury. Ban them. The list is endless. I might have to pay for a guy indirectly and do having a bike crash etc. etc. Ban it.
And Scott, the noise... my ears might go bad listening to such racket. Ban it. A person makes choices, don't like something or somewhere don't do it or go there.

And yea tricky I know about that z stuff. Being on the fringe and rebel as I am. I was asked and downloaded that for for a 72 yr old guy. The cold war... communism, nazi, anti gay, loose women, perverts, look up propaganda film, the list is endless. Look it up urself.. Fear is the most used and most powerful tool available. Even on cars, buy this part or that ford/chevy will smoke ya. Jews, commies, drugs, like I said list is endless truly. Via youtube we can see history films right now anytime easily. A lil law here and then a lil law there a lil at a time. That's the formula... trust me. Am I instilling fear no, just pointing out history imo.

[DragonUSMC]

yeah i'm sorry but i think its the buisness owner's decision to make. If i owned a joint and some douche bag came in to MY shop and told me i cant do what i want to in the place where I pay the bills then i would tell them to FUK OFF.


There are already hundreds of thousands of places and bars that do not allow smoking, which is fine with me. I go to those places also... Now they want to try and get private clubs such as the VFW to be included in the ban... well i know alot of WWII vets, Korea vets, etc. etc who would glady tell you where to go when you come into OUR club.