88 GMC vs. GTO

[tylers88]

Today I was driving around town and a guy that works at the drag track I go to is in town with his 04 I think GTO. So I start messing around reving my truck up a little bit and he just laughed and nodded his head. Then I saw him start to down shift and I floored it, at first I though I had him due to a bad shift then he flew past me. It didn't suprise me that a 2500lb car with an LS2 beat my 4800lb truck with a standard 355. Ended up talking gearhead talk for about 45 min-1 hour.

[69gt4speed]

It didn't suprise me that a 2500lb car with an LS2 ......

Huh? I know a guy with a 06 gto which weighs 3960 w driver. Don't know of any yr gto weighing 2500# even a 64. Or a 04 w a ls2, thought they were ls1 till 05. Your truck is just slow like almost all trucks cause they weigh too much. I would expect a 04 gto to be low 14's. Most any ls1 camaro can eat those for dinner. Now the 06 400hp would be very close on a roll w a ss ls1 camaro is my prediction, maybe d/d ss will race this 06 that I know of. Stock 6 speed vs stock 6 speed at say 45 mph or 20 mph to take the gto clutch irs out of the equation.

[black88gt]

all that weight and IRS really hurts the newer GTOs, especially from a dig

[Domestic Disturbance]

ya they r big girls. the ls2s r consistant low 13's stock tho so that would b a good match up. i wouldnt mind running 1 from a roll at all.

[NewSpeedSteed]

ya they r big girls. the ls2s r consistent low 13's stock tho so that would b a good match up. i wouldn't mind running 1 from a roll at all.


Iv'e been lucky enough to have that chance- a guy I use to work with bought a new sliver '06. They are ridiculously nice; the interiors feel so luxurious and with the LS2 it is a monster but like mentioned above the weight and IRS hurt the cars a bit- but they are not geared that great from Pontiac- drop a more aggressive gear set in the rear and it would preform like it should.
Oh and we raced 2 times once from a dig and once from a roll: from a dig it was close but I ended up with a bumper on him- if that- at about 90-100mph. The roll was the opposite result; I got about a car maybe a car and a half and we shut down a lil over 100 and he had a fender or less on me. At the time both of us were new with our cars and both were stock- but like other people have said LS2 vs Camaro SS/ Trans Am WS6/ Mustang Mach 1s will be a great race.

[ZEE]

Why would it have to be an SS/WS6. They're the same mechanically as any Z28/Trans Am. Same horsepower. Same engines and tranny. They dyno the same. WS6/SS is essentially a suspension and trim package. So don't cont out your average Z28/Trans Am...............

[tylers88]

then its a 06 because it has an ls2 and I was was just guessing about weight, either way I got killed

[69gt4speed]

Zee , no reason besides I know these particular cars, what they have on them. 06 Gto= more hp, more weight, The 00 ss less weight, less hp. You know the hp/weight theory tested. Your car has mods, along with fbody's so I know they would beat this 06 anyway you want. Should be close like this mach/gto.

[DustinsDuster]

damn, everyone beat me to the weight discussion.

hey Jay, were you on 1st ave turning on to Collins around 10:30 last night? i swear i saw you driving....

[ZEE]

Dustin- It was probably me you saw. I'm usually out friday or saturday nights. It's the only time I get to unwind and relax.

Rob- I wasn't arguing the weight points. More like the fact everyone thinks the SS's and WS6's are faster than the Z28's and TA's when stock for stock, they are equal.

[Luminatorz34]

i thought the ws6's and ss's had different intakes and exhausts?

[ZEE]

Intakes are the same. Unless your talking about the ram air hoods which aren't very functional and gains would be minimal. Exhausts- you get s slightly better catback. The SS you could opt for the SLP catback which was better than the standard SS/Ws6. The exhaust upgrade isn't that significant when you consider the first thing that gets upgraded is the exhaust anyway. There goes the slight advantage.

[Domestic Disturbance]

ya when i ask if some1 wants to run them and i say i have a camaro tey always ask ss or z28 like its some huge difference. some say the hood scoop helps 4 better induction on both ws6/ss but mostly cosmetic.thats really if u want to argue for each horse u have in the stable. especially how mine loops all the way back around haha. for the tards out there u can fool them cuz they will b like well its not an ss. im sure ur z would have no problem eating my car up.

ya i thought i saw u out too fri nite

[black88gt]

if you really want to get down to it, wouldnt a stripper z be quicker than an ss or ws6? drivetrain being equal, the z having less weight

[Deathinnovember]

uhhh GTO's weigh 3,700 pounds not 2,500. My Z doesn't even weigh 2,500 pounds. The LS1's are really weak in the GTO's with that much weight and they're geared terrible. High 13's with a decent driver.

And Zee As a fbody guy you should know this. It is dyno proven. WS6/SS's dyno more than baseline fbodies all the time , everyday, anywhere. They come with ram air , suspension , 2.75" catback , better gearing , Wider rear tires (17/275) and if the person wanted a hurst short throw shifters which doesn't give you any horsepower but it helps improve ET's. ALSO the SLP SS's came with some SLP packages if you ordered them. Potentional you could of got a 400hp beast straight from the factory with warranty.

When I had my stock M6 WS6 I beat the same year M6 trans am/camaros all the time and if they were automatics. It was bye bye.

[DustinsDuster]

youre a little late on the weight comments Marc, i think we all did a pretty good job of straightening out the weight question though....

[Deathinnovember]

youre a little late on the weight comments Marc, i think we all did a pretty good job of straightening out the weight question though....

Oh well I got my main point of view across that theres a difference between a regular V8 fbodies and the SS/WS6's.

I knew someone probably already did chim in on that because thats pretty common knowledge. I was just way to lazy to read through everything.

[Domestic Disturbance]

a 1le z would still take a ss/ws6. most ss/ws6's still have the shitty decarbon shocks on them. it really comes down to the combination of stuff u get on the car, and the drivers. all and all not a big difference in stuff. slp cars were 345hp on the sticker, and usually never break that on the dyno. unfortunately not all ss's r slp loaded, or id b happier

[ZEE]

Most SS's didn't have any Y2Y options. Most are just base SS's.

First the ram air doesn't do much. The WS6 ram air is a little better than the SS. But power gains are very small.

Suspension will actually hurt you in a drag race. You want the softer suspension for weight transfer. Stiffer suspension don't help.

Catback? Those catbacks weren't the best. They 2.5" just like the Z28/TA's Better than the stock Z28? Yes. Show me a Z28 with stock catback. Not many unless there just waxers. The catback is the only gain for the SS/WS6. Yout talking maybe 10 or 15 horse difference. That's still a drivers race. The Y2Y option for the SS got you the Dual/Dual catback which was good for about 20. Y2Y optioned SS's were very few.

Y2Y optioned cars got these........
SLP Dual-Dual Exhaust or Center Mount Exhaust. (year dependant)
Hurst Short Throw Shifter
Castrol Syntec Lubes Package
Bilstein Ultra Performance Suspension System
Auburn High Torque Differential
Chrome Wheels
SS Front Floor Mats
SS Dash Plaque and Key Fobs
SS Car Cover
later years had 345 HP package that included a blackwing lid.

No other engine packages or upgrades available in addition to the standard SS package. No 400 HP beasts.

Gearing has nothing to do with whether it's an SS/WS6 or Z28/TA. All manual trannys got the 3.42. All Autos got the 3.23.

The Z28/TA 16" wheels have more sidewall therefore better than the 17"s for drag racing.

Shifter is a matter fo driver preference. I do agree the stock Z28 shifter isn't as good as the standard Hurst in the SS. But there much better shifters out there than that one also.

If your lucky an SS/WS6 will dyno 10 or 15 higher than a Z28/TA. Put a decent catback on the Z28/TA then your on equal ground. 10 or 15 isn't much of an advantage. Maybe yours was a freak. It's not uncommon to find some that dyno abnormally high. Maybe your just that much better of a driver than your competition.

[Deathinnovember]

Most SS's didn't have any Y2Y options. Most are just base SS's.

First the ram air doesn't do much. The WS6 ram air is a little better than the SS. But power gains are very small.

Suspension will actually hurt you in a drag race. You want the softer suspension for weight transfer. Stiffer suspension don't help.

Catback? Those catbacks weren't the best. Better than the stock Z28? Yes. Show me a Z28 with stock catback. Not many unless there just waxers. The catback is the only gain for the SS/WS6. Yout talking maybe 10 or 15 horse difference. That's still a drivers race. The Y2Y option for the SS got you the Dual/Dual catback which was good for about 20. Y2Y optioned SS's were very few.

Y2Y optioned cars got these........
SLP Dual-Dual Exhaust
Hurst Short Throw Shifter
Castrol Syntec Lubes Package
Bilstein Ultra Performance Suspension System
Auburn High Torque Differential
Torsen Differential
Chrome ZR1 Style Wheels
SS Front Floor Mats
SS Dash Plaque and Key Fobs
SS Car Cover

No other engine packages or upgrades available in addition to the standard SS package. No 400 HP beasts.

Gearing has nothing to do with whether it's an SS/WS6 or Z28/TA. All manual trannys got the 3.42. All Autos got the 3.23.

The Z28/TA 16" wheels have more sidewall therefore better than the 17"s for drag racing.

Shifter is a matter fo driver preference. I do agree the stock Z28 shifter isn't as good as the standard Hurst in the SS. But there much better shifters out there than that one also.

If your lucky an SS/WS6 will dyno 10 or 15 higher than a Z28/TA. Put a decent catback on the Z28/TA then your on equal ground. 10 or 15 isn't much of an advantage. Maybe yours was a freak. It's not uncommon to find some that dyno abnormally high. Maybe your just that much better of a driver than your competition.

Your first statement I agree with. The ram air on WS6 is straight to the lid. The ram air on the SS's have to go through several baffles before reaching the lid. Thats why a CAI is a popular modificaiton for the supersports.

Your second statement I don't agree with. Yes you're right about the softer suspesnion for drag races is better. But for a street application and for the twistys the tighten suspension obviously wins. I know a lot more people that have streetable V8 fbodies than just track queens.

No you're right about the Y2Y. But you're wrong about there not being SLP packages for the SS camaros. It was the same as the firehawk. You order your car and list of SLP options opened up and it was under factory warranty. thats why it was such a big deal.

As for the sidwall size. you could get the high side wall on the 17" sizes pretty easily and going from 245 to 275 will make a difference in being able to hook up and you'll even be able to feel it in the corners. It's like going from a 275 in a regular C5 to a 295 in my Z06.

I'm not trying to argue with you by the way. Just discuss lol.

All I was saying though is with a equal driver and same tranismission a WS6/SS is going to win over a TA/Z28.

[ZEE]

You can get SLP packages but not ordered for the SS/Firehawk. The Y2Y option is the only option you get from SLP which essentially is a 335 horse option (better catback). 345 horse option on later SS's which added the Air Lid (another 10 hp on top of the better catback). We all know you can't go buy these numbers anyway because of GM's under rating of the non Corvette LS1's.

98-00 usually dyno 290-315 rwhp. 01+ usually dyno 315-325 rwhp (LS6 intake). That's regardless of model. They dyno over such a wide range you can hardly call that dyno proven.

I like discussions :)

I still say a 15 horse difference is not gonna be a guaranteed winner. A 150 dollar lid there's your 10 -15 horses to compete with the mighty SS

[Domestic Disturbance]

ya they all dyno on a wide range in that area. no 2 ever dyno the same. either way ya people over rate the ss's and under rate the z's, but thats just workin in ur favor

[tylers88]

jeez I didn't mean to start a z28-ss brawl

[ZEE]

friendly debate. :whip:

[69gt4speed]

Well I talked to the gto guy, he is game for a roll. He said his clutch is pretty much toasted but good enough for a roll. Like I said we both weighed our cars, his was 3960# w him, mine 3910# w me, no spare (stock hood) at works truck scale. He has the 275 m/ts (25.8") on but a roll that doesn't mean anything imho esp at 40~45 mph unless the ss spins them there.

[Domestic Disturbance]

she spins them goin 150 haha
ya ls1's r the shizniz nuff said. we all kno they came with 450hp neways

[ZEE]

I need more stickers.

[69gt4speed]

I can do that for ya, snaketr, dsmsmokr or some small calvin ones? On the other hand some nice skulls might do the trick. I like skulls mostly.... Got one hanging on the mirror.....

[Domestic Disturbance]

haha always pickin on the ss cuz of ur ol eaton? ill let it lside 4 now, im gettin a wooden propeller installed and 4 way adjustable wings. then we'll b seeing the robbedrob stickers

[black88gt]

haha always pickin on the ss cuz of ur ol eaton? ill let it lside 4 now, im gettin a wooden propeller installed and 4 way adjustable wings. then we'll b seeing the robbedrob stickers

shoulda gotten the composite propeller. we all know the 4 way adjustable wings are a waste of time, the 8 1/21 adjustables are the norm

[ZEE]

4 way adjustable wings do suck. Have to agree with that. The composite propeller seems a little brittle to me.