YAHOOOOOOOO

[MustangSally]

WTG DEMS :supz: :supz: :supz: :supz: We got the house, now let's get the Senate :bigthumb: !!!!

Let the Impeachments begin :bigthumb: :bigthumb:

[69gt4speed]

Like a kid in a candy store.... /\ /\ /\ /\

[MustangSally]

You betya :biggrin: ............ looking like we might get the Senate too :bubb: , :bigthumb:

[Stro]

I voted straight republican, idk why, i guess just to cancel out someone elses vote.

[DragonUSMC]

Can we increase min. wages too while we are at it... It’s been awhile since we've had a nice jump with inflation

=P

[ZacFields]

I wouldn't mind seeing a little bump in minimum wage but at the same time, I think they wanted to make it $7.25 an hour and I think that's a little bit too much. I know many people who have made minimum wage, and I know that what they do doesn't constitute a huge raise by any means. Make it $6.00/hr and leave it there. That's a 16.5% increase and I think that should be sufficient.

I'm all about getting more money for people who deserve it, but I've said a million times I don't think anyone should need handouts unless they are physically or mentally deficient of handling their own lives. I never had anything given to me on a silver platter...I had to work my way into getting promoted at my new job to make the income that I make now, and I know that if I want more, I need to either get promoted one more time (which would put me as high as you can get in the company I work for unless you're one of the owners) or else I would have to find a better paying job....something which may have to wait until I finish my bachelors.

That's my 2 cents. I don't think it's the end of the world but I am a little nervous for some things. I'll just wait and see what happens though.

Zac

[MustangSally]

Can we increase min. wages too while we are at it... It’s been awhile since we've had a nice jump with inflation

=P


DragonUSMS,
That was one of the things that the Democrats had promised to try and do. They realize that "min. wages" has been at a standstill while there has been inflations, people just cannot live on the pennies that they are paid for their hard work while the rich keep getting richer, it isn't fair or right for the middle-class and little people to be treated in such a manner by their employers.

It is time for a change for the better in the US and the Democrats have promised to make those changes for the people.

The Democrats have said a lot of things before the election, there has been talk about re-opening the 9/11 commission's report,.... the Downing Street Memo's,....... mostly because people were not held responsible for that day when they could of done more to prevent what had happened on our soil, people need to be held accountable for their actions and in-actions and this includes the White House. They have also talked of bringing home our troops from Iraq,............. there has been enough loss of life for a war that was wanted by the few...... but not necessary because Iraq was not a threat to the US as we were lead to beleive......... those "few" need to be held accountable for war crimes,.... not our troops who had done as ordered.

With all that said, I have two "url's" for our young people that are 18 or will be 18 to go read if they want to know and understand the Republican and Democratic parties ( from history to date ), how it all started.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic ... ted_States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_(United_States))

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican ... ted_States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_(United_States))#Social_policies


These two url's will give better understanding to the reasoning behind the Elections and why it's important to use their voting power.

[melhoneybee]

[quote="DragonUSMC";p="113910":98973]Can we increase min. wages too while we are at it... It’s been awhile since we've had a nice jump with inflation

=P




The Democrats have said a lot of things before the election, there has been talk about re-opening the 9/11 commission's report,.... the Downing Street Memo's,....... mostly because people were not held responsible for that day when they could of done more to prevent what had happened on our soil, people need to be held accountable for their actions and in-actions and this includes the White House.[/quote:98973]

Ok hun, I have sat back and watched your post for alittle bit now. This responce will actually probably surprise some people who know my political veiws.. (zac, ash, maybe Jay, jake?) But I am no registered to any party, but have mainly Democratic Views. I know some of this is talk and not in action yet, so don't take this personal.. it's just my views like everyone elses!

I think that any 9-11 case does not need to be re-opened.. actions happened, action was taken. When that action was taken... EVERYONE to a certain extend wanted it. Maybe that didn't mean Iraq in some people's head... but that's were we are. Why does there need to be blame pointed? I think live, learn, move on, protect, and be proud that we can and will do that till the Day America is no more (god willing that never happens) So why would the Democrates need to re-open or un barry a hacket there?




They have also talked of bringing home our troops from Iraq,............. there has been enough loss of life for a war that was wanted by the few...... but not necessary because Iraq was not a threat to the US as we were lead to beleive......... those "few" need to be held accountable for war crimes,.... not our troops who had done as ordered.

When talking to Dragon (Jay) I can let him deal with this on his own. He will let ya know otherwise. MY personal view.. should we have gone there yes.. do we still need to be there yes... do we need to be there in such a full force.. no. But the USA has always made things better for the countries we have torn apart in war, why would be leave this country to fed for itself, when we caused the disaster? We are obligated to stay there to fix it now.. not just say hey thanks we got him.. have fun!


With all that said, I have two "url's" for our young people that are 18 or will be 18 to go read if they want to know and understand the Republican and Democratic parties ( from history to date ), how it all started.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic ... ted_States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_(United_States))

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican ... ted_States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_(United_States))#Social_policies


These two url's will give better understanding to the reasoning behind the Elections and why it's important to use their voting power.


Knowing history is always a good thing! Keeps us from making mistakes from our past!!! Also keeps us morinv forward as a UNITED country!

[DragonUSMC]

You want troops out of Iraq, but are the first ones to smear their blood with the feces of the media? This is where I really disagree with the wacko left wingers. If we pack up and leave Iraq today… I can tell you what’s going to happen. I don’t need a crystal ball, or physic hotline… It will be an absolute bloodbath. You have no idea what that means and I cannot describe it to you. To you its numbers on a TV screen or a newspaper… to me it’s the rotting, burning flesh, the animals becoming carrion like creatures and feasting upon the bodies of women, children…

You say “enough of our own troops have died” Well, what I still haven’t figured out is why not one asks the people fighting? We know what war is, we know why we joined the military, and helping people is going to be everyone’s first response. I don’t see where else we could be deployed in the world to help more people… Do you even have any idea how many MARINES alone are deployed throughout the world and in what locations?

I can easily say you only think of Iraq and Afghanistan. I laugh at this… because the general public is so brain washed with the child murder porn that our media creates daily, that they become to deadened to actually do their own research; to get off their asses and go find the people who are there, were there, and are still doing things to support their brothers and sisters in arms. To find the real information rather then being spoon fed. You want to know what its like? Go buy a plane ticket to Kuwait and then go for a drive…

More people die in NY in one day then military causalities in Iraq and Afgan combined. Where is the outcry for those people? Those killed by gang violence, hit and run car accidents, and other crime?

We signed up knowing the risk. Those innocent people in New York didn't go to work thinking there was any kind of risk.
Pvt. Mike Armendariz-Clark, USMC; Afghanistan, 20 September 2001
as reported on page 1 of the New York Times

Marines die, that's what we're here for. But the Marine Corps lives forever. And that means YOU live forever.
the mythical GySgt. Hartman, USMC; portrayed by GySgt. R. Lee Ermey, a Marine Corps Drill Instructor using his own choice of words in Full Metal Jacket, 1987

Two quotes which are VERY true… its why people in the armed forces do what we do. You don’t have to understand it. Because you are not the one willing to run into an open street under heavy fire to try and rescue the child that got caught in the middle of the firefight that is probably already dead. You are the person that sits in safety, points a finger and judges when you see something about war you “don’t like” on your nifty Reality Iraq War TV show.
I sometimes wish I could project the real horrors of war into people’s heads… just so I could hear them in all their “righteousness” scream in absolute terror. To know what its like to have your best friend’s brain splattered across your face and chest, and still get up everyday knowing that you are doing a good thing, and your friend died an honorable death, and to hear my silent prayers wishing for the same honorable death if my time so comes.

All in all the political nonsense of this country has gotten out of hand… The right wingers are nuts, the left wingers are nuts and there are too many sheep following either crowd. Yes I am republican, and I disagree with my overall party on many things. But the war is not one of them… I wanted to discuss the problem of pouring money into the system and the inflation that it would cause if not done correctly but I’ll just stick with this topic as it still drives me nuts.

One last thing to remember… It doesn’t take an act of congress to send in the Marines as it does with EVERY other branch of service. First in and Last out… we will stay till the end because it doesn’t matter what congress says, or the screams of the left wingers… because there is a job to finish, and we will be the clean up crew as we have for over 200 years. We will be forgotten and abandoned… and we don’t care, because you will die… I will die a Marine.

I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold.
1stLt. Clifton B. Cates, USMC
in Belleau Wood, 19 July 1918

[69gt4speed]

It will be an absolute bloodbath (If the troops left Iraq)

Very true but was it not a bloodbath during our civil war? Yet we (north and south) only got help via mostly materials there were no actual troops on our soil... Do you think for a moment we would of welcomed say England or France to bring troops in because we disagreed with the viewpoints and practices of our fellow citizens?

The basic problem as I see it is Ok Saddam ruled by force he used all means not allowed by convention to succeed. He is gone now they with their differences all know he is gone and they have gone to fighting over their differences.

I do not think they are ready yet for reason to prevail they are not worn down enough, history says the losses and damage must be severe enough to make them want a alternative, the only real exception was the cold war which was won by economics and the knowledge and belief that all would perish.

I do not have a solution neither, It will take them to want a solution. The ultimate weapon against war is to make sure they have food clothing shelter all those things that makes life worthwhile. We helped rebuild germany and japan that kept them happy.

I could say the solution is to pull our troops back supply each side with equal weapons or the only other alternative is to totally destroy each side till none is left. I am a pragmatist, and I don't think these ppl are ready yet all I'm saying and we can't make them with the means we are using.

[melhoneybee]

With you saying that I can agree with that one alittle more! But there is no way we could just pull the troops completely out tomorrow.. it's almost just obserd.

[69gt4speed]

I have no solution, I study history, I am only saying what has worked in the past. I enjoy a good argument esp from a female that makes her most attractive. Hence I married Anita yea she is left handed too. My best friends have been that way.

I know it appears by pulling troops out we have lost...
But your future husband or b/f may be one of those, life is most strange. A lil change here or there can make a big difference good or bad.

All we know now is what we are doing now is not working....

Ok then we tell them you have xx time to do something constructive, splitting the country up or whatever, or we will supply each side with equal weapons or equally bomb you till nothing left.... your choice....

[ZacFields]

I said this in an earlier post, but it probably should have went here. I think there needs to be US presence in Iraq for many years to come. I think they should quietly (and very slowly) over the next 5 or 10 years start pulling troops away.

The biggest thing Iraq needs is some time for these 15-16-17 year old kids to get older and join their military. The way I would do this is as follows:

Lets say next year in June, there are 1,000 more Iraqi soldiers than there were this June. So, next June let's pull about 750 US soldiers out of Iraq. Then the following June there are 3,000 more Iraqi soldiers, so pull out about 2,500 American soldiers.

Make any sense? It's going to take a while...considering the biggest thing they're waiting on is for more people to join the military and become trained and more people to join law enforcement and get trained. You can't build a sustainable government in the short amount of time we've been there, but they are getting better little-by-little.

I think our new secretary of defense will probably work a system very similar to what I'm explaining to you...though I would imagine by next June there would be a lot more than 1,000 more Iraqi soldiers...I just pulled that number out of my ass.

Well said jay, as always the people who know the most are the guys who risked their neck out there and made it so guys like me could stay home and go to school and work.

Zac

[69gt4speed]

I do not want anymore of my friends, family to be wasted on these ppl... Here we are sitting ducks on the ground while snipers are sitting in buildings waiting for them. Who are our friends there? With our limited rules of engagement and them at this point not giving a sh-t if they live or die they are taking advantage of this. They come into a group of women and children with a bomb on them when some of our guys are around and care less..

F-ck them, they aren't worth my friend Zac Fields...or Jay or Ashley... To fight honorable is one thing, these dogs have neither honor nor respect in my eyes... hence my solution...

[Ashley]

we just need to blow the middle east up. or at least iraq/iran/afghanistan.

[MustangSally]

we just need to blow the middle east up. or at least iraq/iran/afghanistan.



Ashley,
It might seem to be simpler to do that but why, it's their country that we entered unwanted , We should of just stayed in Afghanistan searching for the one's that attacked our soil instead of going on an attack of a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 and had not done anything to us to provoke us. Sure Saddam may have provoked "the shrub" by putting out a hit on "the shrub SR.",.... but that was personal and "the shrub JR" had no business using our troops for "his own personal revengefulness", that is not what our US TROOPS are for.

Apparently most of the Citizens of the USA finally figured-out that "the shrub" and his administration were liars, thieves , murderers and immoral, so they voted Democrat this go around to get rid of the trash and to send "the Shrub" a huge message. Most people are upset about this illegal war on Iraq and our troops being lead to the slaughter, I guess one could say that "the Shrub" is doing some of his own type of " Genocide" of the Iraqi people and of ours too, he enjoys playing GOD with other's lives, but I agree with my husband, we need to tell the Iraq Gov't to get their sh*t together in xx amount of time because we're leaving but we will be giving both sides enough gun power to finish their civil war, but our being there was/is illegal and "the Shrub" was wrong for sending us there.

[MustangSally]

Oh one other thing,

http://electroniciraq.net/news/2603.shtml


Both our Gov't and the new Iraq Gov't are still trying to hide the truth from the American Citizens

[Ashley]

... it was a joke.

and the iraqi tv stations were closed bc they did not want a flipping civil war breaking out between the protestors and those who were celebrating the verdict in saddam's trial.

those TV stations were PROMOTING violence against those who were celebrating saddam's death sentence. the tv stations were basically praising saddam... which is exactly what the new iraqi govt doesnt want, and really doesnt need at this point.

[ZacFields]

Yes there was a lot of concern of violence on the day that they sentenced Saddaam. There's no hiding the truth, it was also all over the index page of CNN and every United States news website and the main topic of the evening news. They were trying to prevent an outbreak of violence in Iraq by letting word of mouth take the news to them before they see the details on TV.

I'll say it once and I'll say it a thousand times. There is a huge difference between being a political person and being a conspiracy theorist. And quite honestly, it seperates the "crazy" people from the intelligent political minds we have in this country.

There are a lot of people who are democrats that would be a lot more credible if they would focus on the politics and not on the conspiracy theories.

If that's how you feel about Iraq, that's fine. But out of every 100 conspiracies that people believe to be true, 1 of them even has a chance of being even partially correct. I've seen them all and I've heard them all. Yes I know there's a lot of people out there with photos who thinks the moon landing was filmed, lots of people who think the pentagon was actually missiled on 9/11. I've seen them all and they are very interesting... but for satire not for actual truth. (Though I believe the moon landing being filmed is realistic. Why not? Why not end the rat race, save yourself millions of dollars and do it infront of a few sheets in LA? makes sense to me)

There was once a time when the only things you ever knew about the war was what your son/nephew/dad would tell you when he got back. Media has allowed people to believe that they really need to know everything that is going on.

Zac

[cobratori]

We should of just stayed in Afghanistan searching for the one's that attacked our soil instead of going on an attack of a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 and had not done anything to us to provoke us. Sure Saddam may have provoked "the shrub" by putting out a hit on "the shrub SR.",.... but that was personal and "the shrub JR" had no business using our troops for "his own personal revengefulness", that is not what our US TROOPS are for.


I think you hit the nail rtght on the head. Couldnt agree more. :supz:

[MustangSally]

The American People have spoken,..........

If the Democrats do not do as the People elected them to do, to turn our country in the right direction, to take care of the middle class , small business owners, elderly, and helpless....... to look after our own no matter what political Affiliation or faith/non-faith, then their butts can be kicked-to-the-curb,........ just as the Republicans were this time and have a NEW Party created by the people and for the people.


edited to say: We need to bring our troops out of Iraq and back after the people that actually dared to attack us on our own soil.

How Iraq and those other countries in the Middle East conduct themselves and their people is actually is their business and since we were not asked to intervene,........... we need to see our way out of Iraq the best way we can.

[69gt4speed]

What we have is not working so I and many others went to different engine builders, if they do not perform as promised, I'll fire them too, I have no problem doing that, as I want my monies worth and my effort and others not to be wasted.... Stay the course is for fools when sh-t isn't working....

Make your views known to those elected, they supposed to be for us don't just b-tch about it do something if you truly believe in your views... I might not have a wonderful plan but I can say to them this isn't working.... I hired you to figure it out...so do it...

[MustangSally]

What we have is not working so I and many others went to different engine builders, if they do not perform as promised, I'll fire them too, I have no problem doing that, as I want my monies worth and my effort and others not to be wasted.... Stay the course is for fools when sh-t isn't working....

Make your views known to those elected, they supposed to be for us don't just b-tch about it do something if you truly believe in your views... I might not have a wonderful plan but I can say to them this isn't working.... I hired you to figure it out...so do it...


Exactly ! That's why I've already started emailing all the Democrats that are still in office and will be remaining in office telling them if they do not follow through with everything they had promised to do and would try to do, (of course without Bush's vetoing their efforts, then I won't hold the Democrats responsible, that is ) then I will be leaving the party and taking as many with me as possible................... but we will not be joining the Republican Party either, I'd rather :Hangman: myself first

[MustangSally]

... it was a joke.




hun, you may have been joking to loosen-up on this mess in Iraq talk and I should try not to let what you said bother me like it did considering I've heard that said by other young people before, but I have a hard time "loosening up " and joking around about something this serious when there's to many lives at stake ( Our troops and Iraqi Citizens ), and already too much blood that has been shed already.

Ashley, I have quiet a few family members over in Iraq being shot at as we speak, I am not happy that their there, I am not happy that they choose to join the service as the only way to bring in an income for their families to live on since there were no job opportunities open to them at the time , before they joined....... I guess they could of started college and used what "grants" were left that "the Shrub" hadn't dismantle yet and used that money to feed their families as away of staying clear of the armed services as so many have done but their there , all I can do is pray that they come home alive and whole ,that our new House of Reps and Senators can help bring them home and change our Country around for the better.


Zac,

I do dabble in the conspiracy theorist sites, it's refreshing to debate with intelligent people from all walks of life ie: Lawyer, retired service men, troops in the service in Iraq , etc., about many different things




Zac -> And quite honestly, it seperates the "crazy" people from the intelligent political minds we have in this country.

If I remember right, I think you stated once in one of these threads that you only become political part of the time when there's an election coming then the rest of the time it's life as usual.

I am political-minded at all times, I pay attention to whats going on in the world and with our country. I watch what our Congress , House of Reps., and White House is up to and what they are doing for our people. I'm not a " Me Me Me " type of person, I'm a "US" type, I want whats best for all of us and care about all of us and yes that's part of what makes me a Democrat,.... Democrats = for the people.

[ZacFields]

I never said I was politically-minded. I'm economically-educated, and while taking my economics courses I developed and interest in economics and thus I developed an economic-mind. Matched with the studies I've done on business not only in the classroom but on my own, I have developed into an economic/business-minded person.

I don't usually get into the things I know in public as far as business and economics go. Partially because it's difficult for people to understand and it's boring for most people. I have tried to explain even the simple things like supply and demand to people and people choose not to understand it because it doesn't interest them.

Once I get into U of Iowa where the professors really start to challenge me with papers about economics and business, i will probably post some of them up in the forums for the few who would like to see what goes on inside my head :)

Anita I think you are an intelligent political mind. That's what I was trying to say. But I think you've gotten too much in touch with the conspiracies and such. I visited that link to the forums that you posted up. You know 90% of the people there are not as politically smart as you are, and many of them are (or have been) very influenced by some very harsh drugs that have caused them to think and feel the way they do. So I was surprised you were involved in that because I feel that you know too much about politics to believe some of that stuff.

But my point is that conspiracies cause you to lose credibility. That's why politicians usually don't discuss them in too much detail. They mention them sometimes mostly to gain the interest of people, but just as I saw the new speaker of the house yesterday on the news in an interview, being bipartisan in a political discussion not only makes you look like a genious, but really could mean that you ARE a political genious. I thought she was an amazing lady, and I am very excited if she keeps the same mentality that she had last night in that interview.

So no...I'm no political genious. I'm very good at being able to predict what will happen when things are introduced to our economy. Things like taxes, raising the minimum wage, forcing businesses to bring their jobs back to the US....they all have some excellent initial advantages for everyone. But however, they also have bad disadvantages in the long term in about 10,000 different ways. Those are the types of things I am good at predicting and that is why I am concerned at a lot of the democratic beliefs.

but as i've said over an over. Let's just see what happens. There will be some good, there will be some bad. It's life, though. And as long as you do what you can to take care of yourself, that's all you have to do. That's all you ever have to do. take care of yourself and your family. Unless the government directly does something that impedes or stops you from doing that, I don't see a problem.

The economic system is a million times bigger than the government. you can play with it all you want but in the end IT is the most powerful thing in this country :)

Zac

[MustangSally]

Zac,
Thank you for the compliment, college has away of bring that out in a person and sharpening the mind. When I took college from 1993 - 1995 , I also took a course in economics as part of what I need for Law.


The most I dabble in at the conspiracy site is in the politics forums, that site is interesting I will say that much for it and I do enjoy chatting and debating with some of the people there, the UFO forum I mostly read in but normally don't get involved in that :rolleyes: . I've been a member of "abovetopsecret" for sometime now, Rob sent me the url to that site the first year we were together, he knew I was getting very upset with the way things were going with our Gov't and knew I needed some sorts way to releive the pent-up stress of it all before I blew my stack and let it all out in a "Letter to the Editor"( in the CR newspaper) blasting Bush for his stupidity (sorry ).

So I guess a person could say that "abovetopsecret" and the people there are my "sounding board" and release,.. so to speak, along with the interesting topics they have in there and if someone has a legal problem or question, I try to educate them on the legal system (at least what I know of it from my college days), or try to help them by looking up the law for them in their state and explaining it to them, along with telling them that I am not a lawyer, I do not have my degrees, that they need to seek a good laywer that is willing to speak to them for free ....the first time in their office then go from there. This way I can not get into legal trouble as long as I state the fact that I am not a lawyer and they do need to seek one,....... thats if they need one. 12 Credit hours and doing my apprenticeship is whats left for me to do to receive all my degrees,....... maybe some day I'll go back and finish. Law and Politics has always been my biggest passion in life before I mealt Rob and he is my :heart:

[ZacFields]

You should go back if you can ever find the time.

Kirkwood may not be the best college in the world but my outlook on that has always been: Kirkwood may not make you work hard, but you can always work hard on your own. That is the biggest difference between a community college and a university. You can learn as much about politics and economics at kirkwood as you could at U of Iowa, you just have to work hard at it on your own and take a passion in the material.

Zac

[MustangSally]

I've been giving a lot of thought to going back and finishing, 12 credit hours really isn't much considering I started out needing 60-something credits when I first started college, the only catch though is this one particular Instructor who is also incharge of the programs for what I was going to college for,............ she doesn't like me to much therefore she gives me a hard time and grades me by her like/dislike of me and not by how well I do,... I guess it's because I didn't suck-up to her like others do, I didn't chew gum and whisper to the person next to me......... while she was talking, and because I dressed as a business-woman for class and that must of intimidated her somewhat as she dressed casual (slacks & blouse ).
Can you imagine studying hard,passing all tests given with A's B's and C's and then the b*tch giving you a failing grade at finals !!!!

Well, that's what happened to me with this instructor. I went to see my college counselor with all my graded tests from that instructor in hand,......... he couldn't get over it when I showed him my final grade vs my graded tests papers. The most he said that could be done is I needed to re-take her class and if came away with the same grading of tests and final grade like the one's he was looking at, again........... then He would go with me infront of the board and Dean of the college to have something done........

Yea right, like I have hundreds of dollars to just piss away because of this one b*tch.

She is the reason I haven't returned to that college or any of the other colleges here in Cedar Rapids as she is the head-instructor for the other colleges here in CR for what I was going for............ can't get around the b*tch :mad: , so I'm f*cked .

That's one thing anyone deciding to go to college should keep in mind,....... it takes only one instructor to knock-down your house of cards, if the instructor doesn't like you for whatever reason.


One other thing,.............. if I had finished-out what I had left to do,.......... I would have earned my " Associates of Art ...... and my Bachelors degrees".

[DragonUSMC]

Ashley, I have quiet a few family members over in Iraq being shot at as we speak, I am not happy that their there, I am not happy that they choose to join the service as the only way to bring in an income for their families to live on since there were no job opportunities open to them at the time , before they joined....... I guess they could of started college and used what "grants" were left that "the Shrub" hadn't dismantle yet and used that money to feed their families as away of staying clear of the armed services as so many have done but their there , all I can do is pray that they come home alive and whole ,that our new House of Reps and Senators can help bring them home and change our Country around for the better.


I wasn’t going to comment until I saw this. First off, I am more then happy to call any member of any branch my brother or sister. But I’m sorry… joining the military for school money or “lack of jobs” as you’ve stated, is fuking retarded. These people I want OUT of my Marine Corps. If the military is the “only job I can find” or “the only way I can pay for school” then I’m sorry but you are a damn retard. Don’t join my beloved corps because you want money for school… because those are the ones that are going to run and hide, cry, not follow orders and get other people killed because they are depending on them. I joined the Military because from when I was born it was branded into me that it is right to protect and defend those who cannot fight for themselves.

I really don’t mean to offend you… but it’s a fact of life in the military.

And we are still in Afghanistan… A lot of us actually… still doing missions, still stacking bodies and some going home in bags. Difference is that you don’t hear about that because it’s the “right” place to be. Why would they report on the thing that this administration did right? They won’t… because it’s easier to make child murder porn when you have complete control over the story, the political backing, the administrative bashing, and the contact our guys see isn’t with a visible enemy.

Main point…
There is a BILLION ways to get money for school.

There are BILLIONS of jobs out there… sorry if you have to work a few minimum wage jobs at once till you find a good one. Maybe one should have planned accordingly to pay for one’s lifestyle. But with the military being one of the LOWEST paying jobs in the world… I don’t see why this would be a good option anyway.

We are deployed in Afghanistan… WE didn’t forget about it. YOU did, just like Korea… You can thank your beloved media, and your ignorance for that.

[biohazard]

I guess I'm going to throw my 2 cents in here and I'm sorry if I echo Dragon.

Anyone who joins any service knows the fact that there life may end at anytime. Deal with it. Yeah, you can cry over those bodies, but there are still people fighting out there for not just for you, but for the good of the people who's countries we currently occuply. Yeah, maybe we shouldn't be in Iraq but we are there all the same. If we go an pull troops out, who knows what may happen next. Instead of service men and women dying, it could be civilians dying on our soil. If we pull out now, do you think that the insurgents will just stop what they are doing and be peaceful. No, if we pull out now or hastily, they could destabilize the Middle East to a point we probably can't imagine.

If I was approached and was told I could commission this winter and be sent to whatever school they wanted me to, but the only catch is that I would have to go to Iraq, I would say yes in a heartbeat. In the past two years, we have had many speakers that have served in Iraq and one of the members of our cadre has been in Iraq. After hearing all of those stories, good and bad, it would not sway my decision to say yes. I guess it is a military thing, be proud of what you are apart of. Even though I am still a cadet, I still see how everyone works together and bonds. Hell, right now I don't how if I could do some of the stuff that I have been priviledged to do because of my fellow cadets.

Enough of my off-topic ranting.

Even though the (damn) democrats have power now, I don't think they will do as much as they promised. Raising minimum wage may inversely effect prices. How many small businesses may close down because they barely make enough money to survive and pay their employees. If you have a lot of people making minimum wage or making what would be under a proposed minimum wage, that is an extreme amount of money that businesses may or may not have.

I don't think I have to state what my views on pulling the troops out.

I don't think we will see much change if any at all.

[69gt4speed]

All I'm going to say is there are many options for min. wage increase to protect small businesses. But here is a fact and we survived, I like to see if something works or succeeded if another what if came before this one. No different than if you put on xx brand parts it should go xx fast and make xx power based upon past experience.
Minimum wage
It had its highest purchasing value ever in 1968, when it was $1.60/hour ($9.12 in 2005 dollars).... so based upon that and we survived the ordeal in fact prospered till the energy prices exploded... Many parts of the country already pay more than federal min wage. Like I said many ideas, training wage, time tiers, under xx employee exemptions. If you disagree fine make your views known to those that are elected. As it is now the states have the right to set a wage higher than fed rate so there is a option. Yea I guess I got lucky starting out.
Red nominal pay, Blue real wage value

http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/anth484/minwage.jpg

[MustangSally]

If no one has seen the movie "Iraq For Sale" you would be wise to get it and see it. It is all factual accounts, the movie is NOT made by a Democrat and has actual Troops that are stationed in Iraq speaking in it.

Here is what some that have seen it had to say:




PATRIOTS AGAINST WAR PROFITEERS
PAWP is a program which enables free copies of the 'Iraq For Sale: The War Profiteers' DVD to be delivered to school, libraries, and community groups across the country as well as active military around the world.

Through the generous donations of several Patriots we have already been able to send out thousands of DVD's and we continue to send out more every day. As part of our education and outreach program we have partnered with over 100 nationwide organizations. In order to mail out as many DVD's as possible we have solicited these groups as well as our base to target the most effective distribution.

Our goal is to have people not only see the film, but to be prepared to take specific action to make a difference. The Action Guide we have put together with 10 of our partners is helpful in determining what you can do. Please download the guide as a Word docoument or Adobe PDF file.

The PAWP program is being facilitated by our fiscal sponsor DreamCatchers which is a non-profit 501c(3) organization.

Here are what some of the recipients have said:

"Thank you so much for your generous donation of Iraq For Sale to the Brandon Free Public Library. I know it will be enjoyed by many of our patrons. Your thoughtfulness is very much appreciated. Sincerely, Stephanie Chomar, Librarian"
"Thanks so much for sharing the copies of Iraq for Sale with Seton High School. As soon as they came, I shared the news with our Social Justice teacher, who was quite thrilled. Our service coordinator immediately put dibs on the second copy, so I?ll be waiting in line to see it (should have kept the news to myself until I?d seen the film!) Thanks again for including Seton High School. Sincerely, Monica Williams-Mitchell, MLS"

"On behalf of the International Humanities Center and Afghan Women's Mission, we acknowledge and sincerely appreciate your donation of 125 "Iraq For Sale" DVD's. Your donation will empower Afghan Women's Mission to accomplish far more than they otherwise could have without your assistance. Sincerely, Steve Sugarman, Executive Director"

"On behalf of the University of Alabama Libraries, I am pleased to acknowledge your recent gift of the DVD 'Iraq For Sale'. We are appreciative of the support of friends like you - support which enables us to continue to provide quality service to our patrons. Thank you for your interest in our libraries. Sincerely, Louis A. Pitschmann, Dean"

LETTER FROM SGT JON LACORE

Jim,

Well, again, I thank you for sending the DVD to me and my friends here. My roomate and I watched the film last night and I gave it to a couple other friends as well. You'll be getting emails from them as well.

First of all, me and a few others were just on our way to the chow hall For dinner when 4 or 5 semis went by us on the road with each of them carrying two brand new F-350 trucks on the back of them. All painted tan and still with the stickers on the windows. My roomate and I discribed how disgusted we were with it especially after just seeing Iraq For Sale.

I was moved by the film and simply disgusted with the intense amount of Greed and willingness to sacrifice people's lives to make a few extra dollars. Not only that but to waste extreme amounts of money just so they can get paid even more.

I've seen the incredible amounts of waste that occurs here. Especially with the chow hall and the thousands of civilian workers. I don't understand how we can be pouring millions and millions of dollars into our chow halls and PX's when the small Iraqi town right next to our base doesn't even have water or power. Yet they can get on their rooftops and peer over the horizon to Camp TQ and see lights flooding the entire base by gigantic generators. And these generators power the dozens of TV's, gym equipment, lavish (lavish for being in Iraq) chow halls and PX's that are not needed. I admit they are very nice to have, but if they want us to get out of this damn country anytime soon we should not be taking up permanent residence on a gigantic American Military base.

I know that these accusations you have made have been brought up in Congress several times. I just can't believe that no one at all is going to jail for this or even being fired or forced to resign. I'm anxious to see if a change in the House and Senate will bring about a change here in Iraq.

Kudos on the film. And please tell as many of the people involved in making it that you can that the soldiers over here appreciate the film and applaud you for making it. If there's more we can do we will do it. I'm planning on ordering a copy of the film for my family back home and my roomate and other friends are planning on doing the same.

Thank you again!
Sgt Jon LaCore

LETTER FROM ARMY MEDIC DANIEL WALSH

Hey,

I am at Al Taqaddum. I am a medic working at the aid station here. I watched Iraq for Sale last night. Some of the stuff is not surprising at all. We see a lot of KBR where I am at. I did not know about all the other contractors. I was most stunned at the footage of congressman trying to stop overspending but all of their attempts being turned down. This stuff needs to be known by the average american.

thanks,
Dan Walsh
US Army

LETTER FROM SGT PHILLIP SLOCUM

Jim,
Having served in Iraq three times (Operation Desert Storm, Operation Iraqi Freedom, and Operation Iraqi Freedom III) as well as Bosnia in 1994 and Somolia in 1993, I am well versed in the art of war so to speak. I don't live for the glory of battle nor am I a war-monger by any stretch of the imagination....war just happens to be part of my job description.

My most recent time in Iraq, August 2004 to October 2005, left me with nothing short of a bad taste in my mouth....and everything you see in "Iraq for Sale" is true.

Blackwater's private army (previously known as 'mercenaries') operating with impunity, rolling up and down the highways and by-ways of Iraq in armored SUVs, shooting first and rarely asking questions later.

KBR (Kellogg, Brown and Root - a subsidiary of Uncle Hally Bourton) and it's various subcontractors running everything on every 'FOB' (forward operating base) in Iraq. The lost laundry, the poor housing, hoarding of building materials intended for the troops, sub-standard meals, charging the government or meals that were never made nor eaten.

AT&T, Ma Bell. Wanna call home and tell the family and loved ones back home that you're alive? They advertise their calling cards as $.45 per minute (or less) to the U.S. In reality, it's $1.30 per minute. What other choices do you have over there? None. AT&T operates all of the calling centers. Thank god for internet based telephones...at $.03 per minute.

DynCorp. I went to school for six months and have eight years of experience in my particular military field. I go to Iraq to find that my job had been out-sourced to a DynCorp contractor who makes $125,000 a year (not including per dium). So, what the hell am I here for?

In previous experiences I went off to war with extra everything...and then some. This time however, Uncle Sam sent me off with one pair of desert boots, two uniforms, and body armor that didn't fit. I however, considered myself lucky. I know several soldiers who weren't issued body armor at all (all of which having to buy their own online...at $800 a pop)....and when it came time to get reimbursed for it, well, a show dog would have given up long ago due to the shear amount of hoops one has to jump through.

Mad Max. What do you think of when you see the movie Mad Mad? Mel tearing across a post-apocalyptic Australia in a souped-up, armored, monstrousity? How about soldiers who know nothing about welding, cutting, or metal properties rooting through junk yards trying to peice together enough steel to not necessarily stop, but to at least slow down a bullet or blast? The mentality over there is, those that are already in Iraq get the armored (up-armored) vehicles first, and those that are driving into Iraq for the first time....well, "hill billie" armor was (and still is) the norm.

I was a member of the active Army for eight years, now in the National Guard since 1997. I retire in less than three years. Prior to 2001 or 2003 I would have put my chances of being deployed to yet another combat zone at 10%. My likelihood of having to go back to Iraq within those three years in this post-September 11th environment is now about 95%.

At the moment, I'm a Sergeant (SGT / E-5) and am assigned to Delta Company, 1/111th Aviation Battalion, Florida National Guard which is based in Jacksonville, Florida.

Members of my present National Guard unit are preparing to deploy to Iraq as we speak. Quite a few of them have dismissed the stories that myself and the thirty or so of us who deployed to Iraq in 2004 as mere bravado and "old war stories". They however, will learn soon enough...the hard way I'm affraid. Of those thirty or so, I'm certain that I'm the only one who has seen the film, but quite a few of them have expressed an interest in seeing it....all of course having seen the profiteers at work first hand.

Regards,
Phillip Slocum




If you haven't seen this movie and would like to, please contact me as I have the movie and a second one that has to do with Iraq.

[ZacFields]

I kept quiet after these last few responses because I was waiting to see what was going to get said. Once again, I was not surprised.

A man goes over across the ocean and fights for our country. The words he speaks about the war are first-hand. He was there. Okay, Jay (DragonUSMC) has been to Iraq and back.

I knew it was only a matter of time before you (MustangSally) disrespected him with your BS once again. I have never seen Iraq for Sale, and I will never waste even 10 minutes of my life watching it. I know many real war veterans that are here today that I can ask about it.

Yes, as Jay said there are some soldiers who bitch and complain about the war for the camera. woooo get over it. There are millions of people in America and they found a few to dance for the camera. OMG that is some hardcore evidence right there.

Don't ever disrespect a war veteran. When you, yourself, go to Iraq and spend a year, then you can come back and argue with a war veteran. Show some respect and let the real heroes have the last word and quit hippying it up with this BS.

I think you can tell I am mad now. I am locking this topic now and I expect this to be the last time we have a problem with disrespecting our troops' opinions. Don't tell a doctor how to make the incision.... he's done it before :)

LOCKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Zac