Ethanol Fuel... would you use it?

[ZacFields]

Here's the million dollar question: If ethanol were readily available in your area (like sold at the wal-marts, as they are planning to do) and you were in the market for a new vehicle, would you buy a vehicle capable of running E85 fuel?

I know we had this discussion before, and I believe it was RysBrnr that came in with some really interesting statistics on the efficiency of E85. At the time I was against it...but I've changed my mind a bit. I see it as a bridge to take us into a complete renewable energy economy. I think once we can get people hooked on E85, we can ease the oil crisis for 10 years or so until you can buy a reasonably priced Hydrogen car.

Are there any other solutions you like? Natural gas is actually a decent amount cheaper, and they make something you can attach to your house to refill your gas tank using the natural gas that already flows through your home.

What do you guys think?

Zac

[Stutz]

I have mixed feelings on this particular subject

[ZacFields]

I think once walmart carries ethanol great things are going to happen. It would be good for the american car companies whom are the spokes-businesses for ethanol. Ford and GM most notably have gotten themselves into the flex fuel scene very well this year with great plans for 2007.

What causes your mixed feelings about it Trick?

Zac

[Stutz]

What causes your mixed feelings about it Trick?



Whenever i dont know what im talking about and want to sound smart, i say " i have mixed feelings on this particular subject"

[Ricky]

^ hahahaha

[ZacFields]

haha. I usually just make up stuff because I know nobody else knows what their talking about either :)

Zac

[69gt4speed]

Bottom line you probably need a chip, link or reflash on the computer. If your injectors are close to being maxed out you need bigger ones. You may need more volume fuel supply. You will use more fuel as btu/lb is less, the good thing is octane rating generally is higher and alcohol cools more than gasoline so you run more boost to get the power back.

So over all for most efficency and power you either have higher compression and or more boost. Thing is you need more fuel for same hp. The other real issue is monitoring the a/f ratio in closed loop operation, normally gasoline is 14.7/1, alcohol is around 9/1 so wb o2 sensors could be needed. What e85 is I didn't bother to search...
Link on various fuels and issues..
http://www.ext.colostate.edu/Pubs/farmmgt/05010.html

[ZacFields]

Well you wouldn't want to run E85 in your existing vehicle most likely. Beginning in 2007, Flex Fuel vehicles by every american car company (and I believe toyota and maybe honda?) will be increasing their production of flex-fuel vehicles, which will be capable of running either E85 or standard fuel.

The different is that E85 is 85% derived from corn (though there have been proven better ways to create ethanol) which means we can produce this inside our own country rather than worry too much about how much foreign oil costs.

I'd talk more about it but i'm really tired.... I Might add more tmw.

Zac

[DragonUSMC]

I would buy an E85 car as a daily driver for sure. As long as good old 90+ octane is still available for my car then i really wouldnt care.

I think it would be good for the economy and good for the enviorment. But then again I'm not one of the thousands of people just just bought a new Hummer to haul my groceries in...

[JustinS]

This is a good thread from honda-tech regarding E85 and high hp applications. It might not be so bad after all. (http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread/1812349)

[Rollin on Dubs]

E85 is a great thing, your keeping your money in the us instead of sending trillions of dollars to countrys whom want us dead! Within the next 5-7 years all of my vehicles will run on E85 or Bio diesel. I have even been contenplating changing my nova over to e85 because it is a great race type fuel. 128 octaine, and oxygen bearing. Currently it takes 28,000 btu to produce 78,000 btu of e85. Brizal is the largest producer of ethanol by using sugar cane. But a company in Nebraska just found a way to use Stalks and leaves from corn to produce ethanol which until just recently was just a by product of corn production and had little no use other than livestock.

I also know farmers who are using the corn mash bi product from ethanol production to feed to there cattle. and are purchaceing it from Ethanol plants for pennys a buschel.

[drfast4ward]

E85 is a great thing, your keeping your money in the us instead of sending trillions of dollars to countrys whom want us dead! Within the next 5-7 years all of my vehicles will run on E85 or Bio diesel. I have even been contenplating changing my nova over to e85 because it is a great race type fuel. 128 octaine, and oxygen bearing. Currently it takes 28,000 btu to produce 78,000 btu of e85. Brizal is the largest producer of ethanol by using sugar cane. But a company in Nebraska just found a way to use Stalks and leaves from corn to produce ethanol which until just recently was just a by product of corn production and had little no use other than livestock.

I also know farmers who are using the corn mash bi product from ethanol production to feed to there cattle. and are purchaceing it from Ethanol plants for pennys a buschel.


e85 is 105 octane and the us has been producing e85 for the last 5 years with corn stalks.. yes brazil if by far ahead of us in producing e85 but we have e85 plants popping up every where..
We (Rev Hard Inc.) have been using e85 for a year now, Its an incredible fuel compaired to race fuel it is a quarter of the cost with as rollin on dubs has mentioned it is rich with oxigen which means more power. if you want to Use e85 you have to be ready to be able to add 27% more fuel.. either thru larger injectors or computer management that will allow you to change it.. e85 is cheaper and if you have an alternative fuel vehicle and regular gas prices are about 2.19 a gallon its still cheaper than buying e85 at 1.50 per gallon cause you get less gas milage from e85 as well... this isnt to say anyone is wrong, just ment to be informative....

[Rollin on Dubs]

[quote="Rollin on Dubs";p="115369":3f441]E85 is a great thing, your keeping your money in the us instead of sending trillions of dollars to countrys whom want us dead! Within the next 5-7 years all of my vehicles will run on E85 or Bio diesel. I have even been contenplating changing my nova over to e85 because it is a great race type fuel. 128 octaine, and oxygen bearing. Currently it takes 28,000 btu to produce 78,000 btu of e85. Brizal is the largest producer of ethanol by using sugar cane. But a company in Nebraska just found a way to use Stalks and leaves from corn to produce ethanol which until just recently was just a by product of corn production and had little no use other than livestock.

I also know farmers who are using the corn mash bi product from ethanol production to feed to there cattle. and are purchaceing it from Ethanol plants for pennys a buschel.


e85 is 105 octane and the us has been producing e85 for the last 5 years with corn stalks.. yes brazil if by far ahead of us in producing e85 but we have e85 plants popping up every where..
We (Rev Hard Inc.) have been using e85 for a year now, Its an incredible fuel compaired to race fuel it is a quarter of the cost with as rollin on dubs has mentioned it is rich with oxigen which means more power. if you want to Use e85 you have to be ready to be able to add 27% more fuel.. either thru larger injectors or computer management that will allow you to change it.. e85 is cheaper and if you have an alternative fuel vehicle and regular gas prices are about 2.19 a gallon its still cheaper than buying e85 at 1.50 per gallon cause you get less gas milage from e85 as well... this isnt to say anyone is wrong, just ment to be informative....[/quote:3f441]

Trent- get some better sources. This news article came out monday.

Journal star (http://www.journalstar.com/articles/2006/11/21/nebraska/doc4562226fac15f435255352.txt)


And your right that e 85 is 105 octaine. the 128 octaine was refrence to pure ethanol.

[69gt4speed]

Sorta off topic but then again not.... Heard some farmers and the secret word is.. corn futures.. Those boys are hoping a bushel will double in price. Course then the cost per gal. will go up we will see what shakes down.. Seems not enough corn to go around... too early to tell.... And I'll say it again, I'm all for a good alternative fuel it will force others to play nice if they want their money...

[Rollin on Dubs]

Sorta off topic but then again not.... Heard some farmers and the secret word is.. corn futures.. Those boys are hoping a bushel will double in price. Course then the cost per gal. will go up we will see what shakes down.. Seems not enough corn to go around... too early to tell.... And I'll say it again, I'm all for a good alternative fuel it will force others to play nice if they want their money...

Our family has a beef farm north of iowa city, as of right now corn futures are at about 3 dollars to 3.40 and it is making it more difficult to feed corn to a cow with prices at that much, But hopefully with advancments in ag production, it will make corn production higher without using more farm land.

[logans dad]

Back in my day some of the fastest rails and cars ran alcohol. It makes the engine run cooler and burns better and cleaner then gas.

Im sure when Trent gets it all figuered out his car will run super on it.

Would I use it ? Yes, If my car was set up for it I would.

[Rollin on Dubs]

There are still are tons of guys running "alky" which is usually Methanol. Methanol is distilld mostly from wood, as apposed to corn, it bears a little more oxygen and has a couple points higher than Ethanol but is similar. Nhra still has two pro classes that run Blown alky casses TAD, TAFC. And in some places you can purchace M85 to run in your E85 equiped vehicle.