Intake Manifold

[logans dad]

I think its a rip on what these people get for a manifold, Anyone have one I can get measurments off of to make one?

Anyone have a cheap 1g intake manifold? Im going to take it and cut the flange off to make like a raring one.

[gsxtacy]

I got one, $25 and its yours.

Jared

[TbTalon94]

Vic do you realize what it involves building a functional sheet metal intake manifold? Also the stock intake manifold is Cast, so you would be welding Aluminum sheet metal to CAST aluminum. Remember what we talked about when welding to cast.

It takes precise designs and a lot of trial and error to get one right and actually gain something from it. There's a reason why those are soo expensive.

Just my .02

[logans dad]

these dsm terms suck lol. I dont mean the exhaust but the intake, Im always up for a challenge and think I could make one. I saw a intake that said it was 16 inches long and the runners where 6 inches. If I use some rubber hose I could experiment on length. I need an old one to cut the flange off to save some of the head ache. Mite try like some round pipe and then some square pipe and have a buddy cut them for a taper. Would like to see one for measurements.

[TbTalon94]

the stock INTAKE manifold is cast aluminum. You can buy 1g intake manifold flanges for pretty cheap. Trust me THAT would save you the headache.

Oh by the way, this entire thing will be one big headache...just to warn you.

[logans dad]

Seger said aluminum is aluminum and it will weld fine. I asked and told him your situation with needing your car and he said you would have to leave it and he would have it done in a couple days. He said he cant commit to an appointment.

He also said I could get lucky and making one myself could or couldnt make more power. Its a gamble.

[belittle]

Seger said aluminum is aluminum and it will weld fine. I asked and told him your situation with needing your car and he said you would have to leave it and he would have it done in a couple days. He said he cant commit to an appointment.

He also said I could get lucky and making one myself could or couldnt make more power. Its a gamble.

Why in the fuck would you gamble on an intake manifold? Just pussy up and buy a fucking magnus and be done with it.

[TbTalon94]

Ok here we go. I'll give you a little write up, with some pictures and then a link to DYNO testing of some manifolds.

First off it takes time to build these things. You don't just slap some metal together and hope it gains power. It's development and research. That is why products gain power and work...because they are tested, over and over again. Untill they work like they are supposed to.

First up: Slow Boy Racing's New manifold
http://www.slowboyracing.com/img/SBR%20Intake%20Manifold.jpg

Next is Magnus's:
http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/images/1g_in_manifold.jpg

Then JM Fabrication's:
http://www.jmfabrications.com/images/smintake/smintake17.jpg
http://www.jmfabrications.com/images/smintake/smintake10.jpg

Forrester Racing Head's:
http://206.124.12.138/intake/1g-frh.jpg
http://www.tamparacing.com/forums/attachments/misc-automotive-sale-wtb/57362-frh-intake-manifold-4g63-carparts-008.jpg

Here is a good picture of the Velocity stacks...something that takes time to make:
http://www.slowboyracing.com/img/1g%20Magnus%20with%20V%20Stacks.jpg

DejonTool's (box design like your thinking):
http://dsm.dejonpowerhouse.com/edit/1-01L_IM-1gA-Accu.jpg

Now out of all those manifolds...what do you think works the best? They are all pricey manifolds (over $400), and they have all been tested over and over to work right. AMS has a manifold that is a lot different looking then these, also is a lot more expensive but some of the best of the best have run very very fast times with it. I do believe Shephard runs it.

Here is a right up with dyno graphs of different manifolds:
Intake Manifold Testing (http://206.124.12.138/intake/)


Now think it over Vic.

-Trevor

[logans dad]

Belittle, Just one more post to piss me off. Ive spent more money on this car then some make here in a year so bite my ASS, I like to experiment and I could make one like the slow boy for under a 100. If I get lucky it could be better but I think 500 to 600 bucks for one is a rip off, The old Bastard

My car should be ready to go here shortly Belittle, Bring your shit out and if I think its close to wasting my time we can play.

Thanks for the info Trevor, I think the red one would be easy to make.

Did I say I love welding and experimenting.

[TbTalon94]

Just another bit of information Vic, People have been having problems with the Dejon Tool one with flanges being warped and things like that. If you notice the flanges are like a 1/4" thick and that is horrible for keeping the straight while welding. Also if you look at those dyno graphs the DejonTool manifold barely out-performs the stock manifold and ends up leveling off up top, where as the Magnus and BJ's continue to raise in flow. Those are the expensive manifolds, and those have been tested/re-tested/and made perfect for their application.

-trevor

[logans dad]

I could buy one but for belittles behalf I might try to taper the plenum and weld one up, I would cut the flange off of a stock one and after its welded have sperry plain it.

I kind of like the looks of the slow boys new one, Wish I could see inside of it to see if runners are sticking inside it like the magnum.

It looks like the JM one has the runners in about 3/16 of an inch also. So belittle if I make one I know part of the secret lol.

The old bastard.

[TbTalon94]

The runners don't stick into the plenum Vic. Those are Velocity stacks. That's the picture i showed up top of the magnus that has those horn lookin things inside the plenum. It's to speed up the velocity of the air to make more power and evenly distribute the power-band better. You can make a manifold without those, in fact old Magnus intake mani's didn't come with them, but trust me you gain more power with them. The power flow is a lot smoother as well. Trust me on this one.

You can try to weld up your own, but use these designs to your advantage and don't just build a box with some pipes on it. Again you can get 1/2" aluminum intake manifold flanges as well. Look around, they are cheap and will save you a lot of time. Will also look a lot better.

Just tryin to help here Vic....as usual

-Trevor

[gsxtacy]

Countless hours of R&D go into making those manifolds. AMS has a great right up on the development of their manifold. A lot of dyno, flow bench and track time has been used to take full advantage of those intakes. I used to run the Forrester intake with a 70mm throttle body off of a 4.6 mustang. I noticed a real difference between running the stock intake and the Forrester one. My power band raised about 2,000 rpms. Another option for you would be to take a stock intake and have it extrude honed. That way it will still be street friendly, but you would pick up some gain from over a stock intake. I would recommend buying an intake instead of making one, you wouldn't want a cylinder to run lean due to a poor runner design and burn up a piston in your new engine. That is just my 2 cents.

Jared

[IanGST]

From the looks of the slowboy, it looks like nothing more than 1 cylinder of X diameter and 4 runners of y diameter such that y is equal to the width of the port on the 1/2" thick flange. Then the runners are bent into the flanges and welded for a smooth transition. The end of the the cylinder is capped with a 1/2" thick Throttleboddy Flange and the other capped with a solid peice. The over hange on both sides of the runners appears equal.

With x being possibly as large as 80-95 mm diameter from the looks of the picture.

Using the good old equation Volumn = pi * Radius^2 * Height:
Volumn = 2.5L, Radius = 80 mm / 2 to 90mm / 2 we can calculate a length of the plenum to be between 497.4 mm to 393 mm. Obviously a smaller radius equals a longer plenum and shorter the length the wider the plenum.

Its not rockets science to reverse engineer something, it just take a little effort and good welding. Good luck Logan's Dad and let us know how well it comes out. I think the hardest part is getting the intake manifold flange.

From their website:

Starting with the basic idea that a big plenum makes lots of power up top we tried to balance perfectly what street/serious strip DSM would need. Beating the stock manifold design was pretty easy and we tested three different designs for power margins. Using a little larger than a 2.5 liter plenum worked best for our goals because it makes perfect sense for the plenum to be slightly larger than the displacement of the engine.

This unit is fully tig welded from end to end and manufactured from billet aluminum. The runners are tapered and are 13.5mm long from the base of the plenum to the head inlet flange. The plenum plus flange is 40.5cm in total length. The height of the manifold from head intake flange to throttle cable bracket is 27cm.

[logans dad]

I want to thank you guys for the impute on this.

I went to slow boys web site and they show the inside of their plenum. Runners or velocity stacks witch ever way you want to call them isn't rolled or tapered.
The JM is just tapered out, The Magnus is rolled over.
People in this town can duplicate anything if you show them a picture. I might go with the plenum like the magnus and Storm Steel can break the top or bend it so it would look just like that one. Then Segers could flange out the runners or velocity stacks, cut my holes in a flat, stick them in and weld that first. It would be like the JM on the inside and not rolled like inside the Magnus but still tapered out.

Its like IanGSX says. Anything can be copied. If you have the measurements!!

Im not going to make my own design, but copy either Slow Boys or Magnus or hell I might make one of each and see what works better.

Then if it works I will sell them to locals if they want one for 200 bucks.

I might be a mean old Bastard at times I know but when I set my mind to something like this that I know can be duplicated im bull headed lol.
I know, I will make one and someone here in town would put it on and try it lol.
I will talk with Scott Sperry and show him pictures and also talk with Recreational motor sports on this. His name is scott also and he designs heads and cylinders for snowmobile drag racers and would have good opinions on this.

[IanGST]

Logan's Dad, I have heard both good and bad things about velocity stacks on a forced induction engine. But it seems shops like Magnus and JM use them so it does add something... though I have seen math that swears it shouldn't help... and reality that it does to some degree. I thnk if those companies who actually race these manifolds and test them use it then there is something to it.

Anyways just remember the slowboy stated they have a 2.5L or 250 dm^3 in the plenum which means you can use V=pi*r^2*h to make all your calculations for the size of the plenum.

Edit:
I must be blind... I read the website some more...
Length from TB flange (start of) to end of the plenum is 40.5 cm. Length of the runners is it says 13.5 mm (but looks like 13.5 cm since 13.5 mm is less than 1/2" or the length of a chicklet!... so its probably a typo or I am not reading what they mean by that dimension, but 13.5 cm or 135 mm would like about right from picture given that the plenum is 90 mm or 9 cm in diameter).

Plenum diameter then is 2*sqrt(V/pi*h) = ~90 mm ... I guess I wasn't too far off from guessing at the picture.

[logans dad]

Have any of you guys seen the commercial where the older brothers have there little brother try to eat something?

They say give it to mickey, He will eat anything.

This is what I need, a mickey to try this manifold if I make one.

Just left Sperrys and they sent the wrong oil pump so theres another day it wont be done but,

Trevor you where on the right track, He advised not to make my own.

You win again lol. Damn young people anyway.

[IanGST]

Trevor you where on the right track, He advised not to make my own.

Did he explain why not to build it?

Frankly, I have never welded a thing in my life, but I don't think it is a big mystery... just never had the opportunity. So I cannot say it is simple or hard to do. But looking at the actual structure of the manifold... it seems quite straightforward in design.

Hardest part is just getting the correct diameter sheetmetal, the manifold flange, the throttle body flange and the 4 1/4" NPT nipples. Assembly should be straightforward.

I have faith in your abilities and ingenuity... oO(I just don't want to be your guinea pig ;) ) I will however, volunteer any help I may be able to provide you ...

[Xboosted23X]

maybe its just me but i know if i dont know how to calculate or test something im not even goin to think about making one
the JM is 450 not to crazy and its a damn good manifold.
and if you did build one i dont think it would be near the quailty of these manifolds.

are you going for fab up an exhaust mani i think that would be a better place to start than the intake.
as for me ill stick with buying both intake and exhaust

[logans dad]

He didnt really say why but for whats done to this motor he said he wouldnt really take a chance on it.

Im still looking for a Mickey tho to try it if I make one lol.

[RandomHero]

its Mikey not Mickey and it was life ceral.
why dont you build one and try it out yourself rather than have someone fuck up their engine cause you wanted to "test it out" on someone elses so if it fucks up its not your engine. Trevor is very smart and knows his shit, if he says dont build one, dont fuckin build one, simple as that, id listen to him over almost everyone on here when it comes to DSMs. hes been in the game for a long time.

[logans dad]

Fuk off want to be hero. Again I have to say I cant wait to meet you.

And you better have a nut cup on boy!!

And I was only joking about some one else trying it, stupid.

Another thread of mine you will end up getting sent to the trash because your an ass.

[RandomHero]

cool, that means i win again.

i could just delete your post since it is just plain retarded, but im going to leave it because the more you type the more people will realize how inbred you actually are.

have a nice day.

[logans dad]

Let me do the fabricating Random, I have built some things that you would say Logans dad couldnt of done that but I did.

I built an enclosed trailer and when I sold it people that came to look at it said you built that, It looks like a factory built trailer. I also built a mini Hotrod puller that was the nicest ones built with a GSX 900 kaw. engine. I should find pictures of it and post some.
You stick with your college education making signs!!

[TbTalon94]

Alright guys, no need to get in a fight in another thread :rolleyes:

Thanks Matt, atleast someone believes that i know what I'm doing!

Vic, make one if you want...but keep in mind all the peramiters and things like that. Good luck.

-Trevor

[StreetSweeper]

Im proud to say there are two JM fab manifolds running around in this town.. and let me tell you they look bad ass! ill show you some time if you stop over Vic..

[RandomHero]

Thanks Matt, atleast someone believes that i know what I'm doing!
not just me, me and Colt-dizzle gots yo back homie.

[IanGST]

Seems to me the point of these cars, modifications and such is experimentation and doing something different and other than stock. As I said before, reverse engineering something is not rocket science nor does it require any real testing. If logan wants to do it then you all should support him in his efforts rather than be criticial because it won't have a brand label.

Its his time, his money and his engine let him do what he wants and I wish him the best with that. All the naysayers really don't have much to talk about. This thread really does remind me of the movie, "The world's fastest Indian" with all the naysayers bickering over the "homebrew" approach.

Even if logan does screw up the first one, so what... try again. Its not the point that it works perfectly, its the building, sweating and toiling to do it yourself and the creation of it from sheets of metal rather than a purchase of credit card. Its not like these things will destroy his engine. It will be hindrance to performance or leak if improperly made and welded. And it will be quite apparant when that happens and so if he is still committed to doing it himself it will be back to the drawing board or give up on the project. But something tells me he won't do the latter. Thats the fun of it and the value of it. I say if logan wants to do it good luck. But I won't naysay his abilities because it won't be labeled with an overprice stamping.

[logans dad]

talked to recreational motor sports and he has a flow machine, He told me the trick is to get the runners in the big tube just right because the ends will be dominant over the middle and he said if I wanted he would flow it. And check it to see if it turns out better witch he said it should but still might not be as good as one like the magnus.

[Drifte]

yeah scott will help you out really good. we built an engine once, dynoed it to prove it made 1/10th a hp by using a-corn nuts by the intake. it improved flow.

the guy is nuts in a very good way.

[IanGST]

Status on the SMIM?

[TbTalon94]

He's not making one.