Mod motors dominate the Engine Masters Challenge

[stangvortech]

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/1212phr_2013_amsoil_engine_masters_challenge/

cleaning house! I have a 2000 cobra r motor for my next project cant wait!(what the winning motors were built from)

[snickerlicker]

Oh man the LS guys will not be happy....They will claim they are the king of the junkyard though, which is exactly where an LS belongs.

[skipdownstairs]

Ill race my junkyard ls shit against your mod motors anyday lol :beerchug:

[AutoMods]

they should've let the ls motors have 100+ cubic inches more than the mod motors, because that's usually how it is in the real world with normal budgets:aargh4:

what are they doing to get the mod motors to 400+ cubes?

[allgo]

sorry your ls motor mustang wouldnt have touched my cobra..and your car is proable 500lbs less weight, whats the fastest youve been with your new motor that isnt from the junkyard?

[Snoclo]

^^^ this coming someone that upgraded to a badass LS powered Caddy-wtf?

[snickerlicker]

^^^ this coming someone that upgraded to a badass LS powered Caddy-wtf?

LS powered cars make nice daily drivers, not race cars.....

[Scott]

Ill race my junkyard ls shit against your mod motors anyday lol :beerchug:No offense cuz your car does run well, but arent you on your 2nd engine in less than 1 season? and I thought this one had good non-GM guts inside the block?

[RedRocketZ28]

Even the sun shines on a dog's ass some days.

[skipdownstairs]

My second engine got us by all year long till the last ten 5 race with over 50 1/8 passes and some 1/4 mile passes. We ran four 55 gallon drums of alcohol through it all summer. That engine had stock crank rods and speed pro factory replacement 150 dollar pistons had to be bored because there was rust in one of the cylinders with 706 factory hand ported heads factory lifters and rocker arms. The cam, 5/16 push rods, valves, springs, rod bolts and head bolts were aftermarket from Brian Tooley. The only reason it came out was we had a forged trick flow headed 5.3 we wanted to try. The weird thing is we only picked up 2 mph over the stock headed engine. Trust me guys after a couple of shifter problems and the motor going to 8300 rpm several times with over 40 psi of boost I was waiting for the 2nd motor to fail but she just kept on a ticking away.

Joe the best time is 5.25 at 137 with the trick flow headed 5.3 3100 lb race weight

[AutoMods]

i don't think you can count andy's first motor, that was just a test for shits and giggles to see how long the non-forged motor could hold up. its seems like andy is just throwing stuff together rather quickly and driving it like he stole it with little down time. If i recall, he said he was going to run a 6.0 but they had easy access to another 5.3 so did a little work and threw it in.

if he got serious and put nice bigger displacement motor in there like a lightweight ERL aluminum ls block he would probably see some nice gains

[Snoclo]

Definitely something to be proud of, you probably had at least twice the $$$$ in the blower/drive, than the 2-3 motors hooked to it. Hope to get my junk close to that in the 1/8th , when I get it figured out.

[Mike@Salkowski-Motorsport]

409 ci and 7?? Hp big deal radar just built a 400ci ls with a 4150 carb and made 853 hp on motor

[stangvortech]

yea, but there was rules in the building of the these motors. radar did not or he would have taken a big check home.....

[Scott]

My second engine got us by all year long till the last ten 5 race with over 50 1/8 passes and some 1/4 mile passes. We ran four 55 gallon drums of alcohol through it all summer. That engine had stock crank rods and speed pro factory replacement 150 dollar pistons had to be bored because there was rust in one of the cylinders with 706 factory hand ported heads factory lifters and rocker arms. The cam, 5/16 push rods, valves, springs, rod bolts and head bolts were aftermarket from Brian Tooley. The only reason it came out was we had a forged trick flow headed 5.3 we wanted to try. The weird thing is we only picked up 2 mph over the stock headed engine. Trust me guys after a couple of shifter problems and the motor going to 8300 rpm several times with over 40 psi of boost I was waiting for the 2nd motor to fail but she just kept on a ticking away.

Joe the best time is 5.25 at 137 with the trick flow headed 5.3 3100 lb race weight

That is impressive, more mph than I have ever ran and somehow your car is heavier too. So its obviously making more power.

Still doesnt change the fact that Ford DOHC engine design is in fact a better design to start with, its just not as cheap or easy as the LS. This competition is a pretty straight forward test with all the rules they have in place.

Heres a list of some fast mod motor cars, notice John Mihovetz 6.08 pass, this is done with STOCK BLOCK, STOCK HEAD, STOCK VALVETRAIN, STOCK CRANK. The list is much longer but I stopped here to include Joe and Ryan in the list, both members of this forum.

1. John Mihovetz (Accufab) - 6.083 @ 236.84 - ( Mustang TUBE CHASSIS, 4V 4.6, LENCO – TWIN TURBO ) - http://youtu.be/86uLwXstuWQ

2. MMR - 6.14 @ 241- Mustang TUBE CHASSIS, 4V 360ci, Automatic – TWIN TURBO

3. John Mihovets (Accufab) - 6.31 @ 225

4. Steve Matusek – 6.47 @ 222 – 330ci – 2,565#s

5. Gary Soulages - 6.641 @ 213.47 - 283ci 76mmTT – Truck - 5.20.2011 - http://youtu.be/oROLe_Ns590

6. MMR – 6.991 @ 205 - (Not a Chassis Car) - http://youtu.be/vYAVHiEKdYg

7. MMR 7.02 @ 202 302ci – Coyote - Twins

8. JR Granatelli - 7.27 @ 190.00 - ( MUSTANG TUBE CHASSIS 5.4 4V LENCO - TURBO )

9. Sandi Wold – 7.32 @ 192.87 – xdr car on a 29.5x10.5 tire - 4.6 ProMod Precision 91mm Turbo- Accufab powered – Mustang Powerglide - 11/5/11 - http://youtu.be/Rote9SbpUas

10. Jason Wilkerson - 7.49 @ 177 - 330ci TT - Truck

11. Dave Guy (viperred96gy) – 1.23- 60' - 4.92 @ 151.8 - 7.52 @ 189.2 -3310lbs - 4.6L 325" - Precision LF85 turbo – powerglide - Hoosier 275's

12. Andy Manson – 7.53 @ 184.85 - 4.6 325ci superchargerd combo – 275 DRs - Stock Suspension - http://youtu.be/zOvEnQh7NAQ -http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...em.php?gik=556 (http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/global_item.php?gik=556)

13. Ronnie Diaz – 7.66 @ 178 - NMRA #6 - 11/5/11 - MIR WCT race - 1999 Mustang GT 4V 380ci.

14. Orson Johnson - 7.713 @ 181.08, 4.6 single 85mm turbo, 99 Cobra convertible, 275 radial

15. Dana Cook - 7.72 @ 187.1 - MMR built TT - http://youtu.be/hcCmxgDONbc

16. Joey Bridge – 7.73 @ 186 - (5.4L - Single Turbo - 3200 lbs - Glide - 275's - stock suspension

17. Manny (HPP Racing) – 7.78 @ 181 - ( 4.6 Stroker 1999 COBRA GLIDE – SINGLE 98MM TURBO )

18. Daniel Pechar– 7.80 @ 181 - Triangle Speed

19. Tracy Cockman 7.836 @ 176.86 - Stock Block - Crank – Cams - 5.4 – 106mm turbo – Competition Auto - http://youtu.be/gSk7On0wL3c

20. Mike Schill -7.84@179 (Steve Ayesh's 04 Cobra) 5.4, 2010, CJ. Ford Racing short-block and CJ Heads, f-2, bs3

21. Carl Tasca – 7.88 @ 175.55 - 1.27/60’ 2010CJ – 5.4 – http://youtu.be/2t6mLTwOb4k

22. Perry Santini - TOXIC281 – 7.89 @ 176 283ci Precision 81mm – 30psi

23. Evolution Performance - 7.89 @ 175 - TT 5.4 (Not a Chassis car) – http://youtu.be/5KMxv-lu_Wk

24. ModMont – Kurt Borton 7.905 @ 172.56 – 323" 3v F2 UNOFFICIAL RECORD - http://youtu.be/dvWIQcBmWbU

25. Eric Leeper – 7.93 @ 175 - 331ci TT – Truck

26. Andrew "Junker" Barrale 7.95 @ 174.3 - 4.6 F1-R 3375# - Mustang

27. Randy Haywood - 7.97 @ 188.00 - ( 4V 5.4 POWER GLIDE - TURBO )

28. Bridge Racing - 7.984 @ 175.96 - (4.6L - GT4788 - glide - Stock suspension) - http://youtu.be/pZgKK254I0E

29. John Kolivas – 7.99 @ 180 - http://youtu.be/ofiKSf0RYYE

30. Mark Luton - 8.02 @ 176 - 5.4 turbo Stock Suspension

31. MMR - 8.02 @ 176 - 5.4 single stock Suspension - http://youtu.be/4NHnU5Sj6nM

32. Johnny "Lightning" Wiker - 8.02 @ 169 - 358ci TT – Truck

33. Greg1320 (racers edge) - 8.08 @ 172 - 281 TT - http://youtu.be/pmnsuMXRsUI

34. Steven Biggs Millington – 8.086 @ 177.93 330ci Would like more information

35. Mark Meiering - Shelby Mark – 8.17 @ 170.54 KB3.6 GT500 - 5.4 – Auto - 3,720#s – Las Vagas - http://youtu.be/J-2T8rCWDxo

36. Brian Tutten - 8.143 @ 176.36 330ci – Stock Crank - http://www.fordracingnation.com/inde...d=12&Itemid=30

37. Bart Tobener – 8.15 @ 170.58 – 336ci – 4v with V7 YSi-Trim (Krugan Performance)

38. V*** *****y – 8.17 @ 172 – 97 Cobra – 284ci – 88mm precision Turbo - Strange 8.8 3.55 – TH400 – Watch out for this one, it could be a lot faster. - http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co...dge/index.html (http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/features/mmfp_1108_1997_mustang_cobra_purpose_built_grudge/index.html) - http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...=265324&page=8

39. Tim Oswalt - 8.18 @ 168.5 precision 6466 turbos 29psi on 275 MT drag radial pro's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnB02...e_gdata_player (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnB02DXJOAM&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

40. Thea Zancanella- 8.19 @181 03 Cobra -5.4 - 98mm - 3450lb - 28x10.5 stock suspension

41. Joe Logan "Allgo" - 8.21 @ 176.77 – 04 Cobra – 281ci – V7 YSI - Auto – 3,200#s

42. Drew Skillman '10 CJ 5.4 8.216 @ 167.22

43. Barry Burich – 8.29 @ ??? 283ci - Would like more Information

44. Steve Cooper - 8.30 @ 162 mph - (Accufab Engine, Whipple 3.4, Lightning)

45. Tim Palmer - 8.30 @ 162.00 - ( 1998 COBRA - TURBO ) - http://youtu.be/rDAFc-itHZI

46. Dave King - 8.32 @ 168 - ( 1997 COBRA POWER GLIDE - F2M )

47. ninesecsnake - 8.34 @ 170 – 93 Fox Twins - on 275s - http://youtu.be/ctC09oejA3k

[slow ride]

If you want to make that case then Supra engines have us all beat in little tin can big tire cars. Till one of you fuckers sells your house to afford to build that 6.6L mod motor nobody fucking cares. All the different smallblocks have there strengths and weaknesses (some cost, some complexity, some size, etc, etc) :)

[Scott]

Nobody fucking cares :)

hahaaaa someone has to defend the mod motor thread with all these LS boys around here! I mean seriously a 3000hp engine with all those factory parts on it is impressive, I dont care who you are.

[slow ride]

You cought me on the edit :) It's starting to sound like a bunch of mod motor fan boyz in here now haha. Most DOHC engines don't ever have an aftermarket head or valvetrain as they are a better piece from the factory for sure (which you pay for up front). I'm sure if there was any aftermarket for those parts it would be used, but since it's not as popular of an engine and not needed as much the pieces are never made. We all know they can do some crazy and expensive mods to stock parts to get them to live. 2.0L 4G63s have made 1500+ hp also and that better power to cubic inch than any of our junkers. Can't we just all enjoy seeing different crap once and awhile :)

[Scott]

You cought me on the edit :) It's starting to sound like a bunch of mod motor fan boyz in here now haha. Most DOHC engines don't ever have an aftermarket head or valvetrain as they are a better piece from the factory for sure (which you pay for up front). I'm sure if there was any aftermarket for those parts it would be used, but since it's not as popular of an engine and not needed as much the pieces are never made. We all know they can do some crazy and expensive mods to stock parts to get them to live. 2.0L 4G63s have made 1500+ hp also and that better power to cubic inch than any of our junkers. Can't we just all enjoy seeing different crap once and awhile :)

All of that is true, I still give the LS budget junkyard engine of the year award!! Besides for power/weight you know you cant beat a Busa engine, shit the engine and trans together weigh less than your typical transmission!

[skipdownstairs]

LMFAO!! I just like getting the mod motor guys all revved up! I know they are fast and everyone knows that if god didn't make them we LS guys wouldn't have anyone to pick on.

[Mike@Salkowski-Motorsport]

Just imagine andys motor in a promod chassis like half of those modular motors are in

[Scott]

Just imagine andys motor in a promod chassis like half of those modular motors are in

I think any LS with stock block, crank and heads will be a far cry from those 3000hp mod engines.

[derek072887]

I think any LS with stock block, crank and heads will be a far cry from those 3000hp mod engines.

Just out of curiosity if they are so great why don't you run one? Also why was Allgo getting rid of his if it was so great?

[Scott]

Just out of curiosity if they are so great why don't you run one? Also why was Allgo getting rid of his if it was so great?

Not sure why Allgo was going to switch, I think it had something to do with the class he was planning on racing.

Me, I cant afford it.. Im stuck in the land of leftover parts and carburators.

For that engine to be really competitve in class racing against people with full billet engines is tuff, being hindered by CID and limitations on power adders "per the rules". Same reason you dont see 4g63 and 2jz engines competitive in small tire classes, they're extrememly strong for stock stuff but rules dont exactly give advantage to them

[slow ride]

I wouldn't say it couldn't be done, but why try? No LS based stuff ever used a forged crank except for a ls7 427 out of a c6z and a ls9 from the zr1 (not sure about the lsa from the ctsv/zl1). Those are dry sump cranks are balanced to lightweight titanium rods so it's expensive to balance a heavy duty set of forged rods. The lsa heads are a little better material for boost and the zr1 block and heads are a different aluminum material also which is stronger. Not as much money is spent trying to fortify a NA bottom end from the factory if it's not needed.


As much as we can talk about which one is better I know most of you would rather drive a larger cubic inch engine over a smaller one any day. Power under the curve is just going to be better around town and road racing. At the drag strip it will allow you to light off larger turbos faster or run faster NA etc, etc. I'd like to see the price tag on a set of Accufab preped heads or block. I'm sure it's probably more than any of the off the shelf aftermarket pieces for ls crap. If a mod motor was perfect the Ford guys wouldn't still be running a SBF, but thats not quite the case.

[Mike@Salkowski-Motorsport]

I think any LS with stock block, crank and heads will be a far cry from those 3000hp mod engines.
Those heads on thoses 2300 hp motors are far from stock. They are welded water decks ti and inconel valves ported to the max with diffrent cams and springs. Stock cranks are plasma nitrided and most run the iron blocks because the older motors could not take the beating.

[Scott]

Those heads on thoses 2300 hp motors are far from stock. They are welded water decks ti and inconel valves ported to the max with diffrent cams and springs. Stock cranks are plasma nitrided and most run the iron blocks because the older motors could not take the beating.

This is what I have read, straight from the horses mouth (MMR)

"The cylinder heads on a mod motor are more efficient than an LS engine. They also handle the boost very well.


We have been 6.08 @ 242 with a Modular engine through an automatic trans. We run a 5.8L version of the GT 500 base engine. There are no aftermarket company's that make heads and blocks for the 32v stuff so we are forced to run the factory heads and blocks. We do modify them as we see fit to make them stronger and capable of handling the cylinder pressure that is required to make 3000 HP.


Im sure the LS engine is capable of making the power. Especially with all of the aftermarket parts that are available for that engine. I just don’t think anyone has stepped up to do it with a Pro style car yet. I know Todd Berry has run some good numbers on a radial with an LS base."

and this mod engine is available as a crate engine from MMR, and no its not cheap LOL

[Snoclo]

So by trying to validate your point that modulars are a better motor, sounds less valid, now the info came from the horses mouth so to speak.
1st- Ford has moved on to the coyote, which I guess is technically a continuation of the modulars. Not sure what's the same or interchanges.
2nd- not much offered after market/lack of support.
3rd- said that the LS is probably just as capable, especially since there is aftermarket support.
4th- as stated, not cheap, compared to reasonable on the LS engine.

[derek072887]

sounds like this argument is over haha

[Scott]

So by trying to validate your point that modulars are a better motor, sounds less valid, now the info came from the horses mouth so to speak.
1st- Ford has moved on to the coyote.
2nd- not much offered after market/lack of support.
3rd- said that the LS is probably just as capable, especially since there is aftermarket support.
4th- as stated, not cheap, compared to reasonable on the LS engine.

For 99% of people around here LS engine I suppose would be a better choice since its so cheap for cars running 8's and slower.. Go beyond that and its ALL AFTERMARKET stuff in that engine, just like a standard SBC or SBF so all the sudden theres nothing special about it.

Why dont you show me the list of these LS engines running in the 6's, with 5 billion of them in circulation there should be way more than the mod motors right?

[allgo]

So by trying to validate your point that modulars are a better motor, sounds less valid, now the info came from the horses mouth so to speak.
.
4th- as stated, not cheap, compared to reasonable on the LS engine.


are you trying to say to build a LS engine into the 6s is cheap??? Your right that is why no one has done it yet..Any motor that would take you into the 6s or 7s will not be cheap plain and simple...

This argument all started with a ls guy saying he would work any mod motor over which we have proving he is not even on the same track as my old set-up..my old short block was only 6500 to build stock heads ported different cams 600 intake so if you are here to tell me that his motor only cost under 10,000 than I would say well thats why he is alot slower than I was..lol

[snickerlicker]

Just imagine andys motor in a promod chassis like half of those modular motors are in

It would maybe go 5.1's?. Still slower than Joe's mod motor and with more cubes and more boost...

[Mike@Salkowski-Motorsport]

Remeber this, andy was in the .20s in less then a year it didn't take him 3.

[derek072887]

Remeber this, andy was in the .20s in less then a year it didn't take him 3.

and only 2 motors not 3/year

[Snoclo]

If you read it?, you know I didn't mention anything of a list/don't know-don't care.
Scott, mentioned MMR crate motors available, not cheap!lol!
Didn't know we moved onto 6sec. cars, thought we were referring to Andy's and/or area 10.5 stuff.
I would consider $6500 reasonable short block? depending?
Also didn't hear your car went into 4's, Andy's being so much slower??
Never said I was a LS guy, I probably r 1.
Definitely the anti-ford, go MOPAR/DirectConnection!
Let the coal roll! Diesel guy out.
carry-on, ttfn, Al

[allgo]

Remeber this, andy was in the .20s in less then a year it didn't take him 3.

Shit its taken you a lifetime to run 8s...

[allgo]

Im not taking anything away from what he has done,i think he is a good guy, but to compare times on cars three years ago to todays is like still using the same phone as u did three years ago...

[90 notch]

Remeber this, andy was in the .20s in less then a year it didn't take him 3.Mike your barking up the wrong tree trust me...Do I agree with the mod motor vs ls battle,No not at all!Im the kind of person that doesn't care what it is.Its fast im all about it.I never thought I would ever look back and realize how stupid the internet really was.Joe,my brother and myself did well when we raced 10.5 with joes car nobody will dispute that we were usually the guys to beat.Did I ever see you at one,never.My point is racing is racing were all their to do the same thing and that is to win(were beyond having fun).I have respect for everyone trying to go fast,just don't say something you have no means to back up!Carry on with this internet racing!Believe me when I tell you this it aint that easy!Steve and lorenzo

[90 notch]

Shit,we got a 23 degree headed shitty motor we'll drag all ya!lol

[sparkles]

is like still using the same phone as u did three years ago...
Hey. I've got the same phone from 5 years ago. Don't hate.

[snickerlicker]

Remeber this, andy was in the .20s in less then a year it didn't take him 3.


And you're still building an Audi engine, right?... Lol

[Mike@Salkowski-Motorsport]

Lol that little 23 deg runs like a mother frr. Stevo and Joe its the fall your veterans on this forum and should know this shit happens every year. We need to start a heads up slot car event. Lol

[slow ride]

It is starting to get cool out so let the shit talking begin :)

[Scott]

If you read it?, you know I didn't mention anything of a list/don't know-don't care.
Scott, mentioned MMR crate motors available, not cheap!lol!
Didn't know we moved onto 6sec. cars, thought we were referring to Andy's and/or area 10.5 stuff.
I would consider $6500 reasonable short block? depending?
Also didn't hear your car went into 4's, Andy's being so much slower??
Never said I was a LS guy, I probably r 1.
Definitely the anti-ford, go MOPAR/DirectConnection!
Let the coal roll! Diesel guy out.
carry-on, ttfn, Al

I thought this conversation was about mod motors, referring to the title of this thread. Im just not sure how many facts need to in front of everyone faces to admit the design of that engine is superior.. This Engine Masters challenge has been created by people smarter and more experienced than any of us and I think the results speak for themselves.

As far as 10.5 racing around here goes, its not all about power, its about chassis prep and power management to be able to get down the track. Trust me with a moderate amount of power and the very unpredicatable track conditions from week to week its not as easy as it may look. What Andy has done is impressive because of the fact he is getting down the track consistantly and quick, no doubt his past experience in drag racing has helped him along the way and sped up the process of being competitive. He could have easily done that with any brand/style of engine in that car.

[Scott]

when we raced 10.5 with joes car nobody will dispute that we were usually the guys to beat.

eehhh.. I might

[Snoclo]

Good morning, not disputing that 3&4 valve overhead cam headed motors have for more potential.
This all took a different direction when a comment reached out the LS guys. Then when the dollars come into play, that's where the opinions start to stray.
Unfortunately I don't have a lot of disposable income like some might. Not gonna run around acting like I do, so that's where the General comes in. I like stuff that runs good whatever it may be, at the end of the day I know that I have to stick with what I can afford.
Peace out my brothers, Al

[AutoMods]

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/1212phr_2013_amsoil_engine_masters_challenge/

cleaning house! I have a 2000 cobra r motor for my next project cant wait!(what the winning motors were built from)

Nice Neigum, start a shitstorm and then sit back and watch

[skipdownstairs]

Thanks Scott yeah you and Snoclo couldn't have said it any better than that there are alot of combinations out there and it all boils down to getting from a to b the quickest no matter what you do it with its a tough game. We had the same tuneup in the car at the Finney race as we did on the iowa outlaw shootout and the car slowed down a tenth track conditions change all the time here in good ol iowa and sometimes you never know what will happen when you let go of the button.

[stangvortech]

Nice Neigum, start a shitstorm and then sit back and watch

Haha my bad. I was just happy for the mod motor and not sure if everyone knew how well they did na. lol

[Domestic Disturbance]

Was it ever explained how they got that many cubes out of those engines?