Des Moines E85 user's

[Sleepy]

So over the last few days my car has developed a giant thirst for fuel. My ve table is needing about 10-15 points more fuel across the map(even more in boost) than what it did last week.

I am kind of stumped what would cause this, car runs/drives fine(aside from having to map everything higher).

One thing I thought of is I filled up gas this weekend at the Kum and Go on SE 14th. I am wondering if maybe it got a batch of real E85 and is causing my car to run a bit lean from having E70 in it prior.

Otherwise the only thing I can think of is maybe my under 200 miles on it fuel pump is kicking the can, I had my inline fuel filter out two weeks ago and cleaned off any debris it had in it. My fuel pressure has stayed the same.

Any idea's or has anyone tested the des moines e85 lately?

[Newgen]

So over the last few days my car has developed a giant thirst for fuel. My ve table is needing about 10-15 points more fuel across the map(even more in boost) than what it did last week.

I am kind of stumped what would cause this, car runs/drives fine(aside from having to map everything higher).

One thing I thought of is I filled up gas this weekend at the Kum and Go on SE 14th. I am wondering if maybe it got a batch of real E85 and is causing my car to run a bit lean from having E70 in it prior.

Otherwise the only thing I can think of is maybe my under 200 miles on it fuel pump is kicking the can, I had my inline fuel filter out two weeks ago and cleaned off any debris it had in it. My fuel pressure has stayed the same.

Any idea's or has anyone tested the des moines e85 lately?

Is this the kum and go down by menards on the south side? Thats the one I fill up at and the cars tune hasn't changed at all.

[Sleepy]

Yep just north of Menards.

Damn I wonder what the hell it could be. I swear as soon as its running well it gives me issues.

[RedRocketZ28]

Mine did that earlier in the year. My wideband was on its way out though. I have noticed no difference filling up at random stations. I will fill mine up wherever "E85" is sold.

[Newgen]

You might check your pump filters. I know kenny was having issues with fuel pressure dropping and his filters ended up being plugged.

[Sleepy]

I have a pre pump filter that I would need to drop the tank to get to. That filter was new with the pump. Sub 200 miles on it. The other I have in the engine bay that I pulled out a few weeks ago and rinsed it off to get anything on it, off.

I will pull it again and check to make sure there is not anything funny going on.

I thought maybe the wideband sensor is going out(lc1 default to lean when they die) however the car runs as if it was lean(surging and such), so that rules out a dying sensor or exhaust leak pre wideband.

[Newgen]

I have a pre pump filter that I would need to drop the tank to get to. That filter was new with the pump. Sub 200 miles on it. The other I have in the engine bay that I pulled out a few weeks ago and rinsed it off to get anything on it, off.

I will pull it again and check to make sure there is not anything funny going on.

I thought maybe the wideband sensor is going out(lc1 default to lean when they die) however the car runs as if it was lean(surging and such), so that rules out a dying sensor or exhaust leak pre wideband.


Ah I doubt its the filters then. What pump do you have?

[AutoMods]

fuel pressure is fuel pressure. if there is a pump or filter problem, you will see the fuel pressure fall off. But if you don't have an in car fp gauge and are only monitoring fp during idle under the hood, you might not be seeing a fuel pressure problem that is only happening under load/high demand.

I had a lean issue last year with no tune changes and it turned out to be the wideband sensor itself

[Sleepy]

The fuel pump is a DW300 http://www.deatschwerks.com/products/fuel-pumps/dw300-detail

But when you had your wideband sensor dying, did the car act as if it was lean? Not just showing a lean condition on the gauge.
Maybe I am wrong in assuming the computer would still follow the rpm and kpa to have the engine run properly(since its already been tuned), however have the gauge show as lean.

I did move my fuel pressure guage in cabin, I can verify it does hold accordingly with regular driving. I have not taken it into boost since it has started to show to be this lean. (Before this lean situation popped up it did raise at a 1:1 rate as it should).

[Phish]

I had my aeromotive stealth go out on me last week. It showed no signs of it going out at all on the air/fuel gauge. Air fuels were perfect right up untill the car shut off going down the interstate.

[Newgen]

The fuel pump is a DW300 http://www.deatschwerks.com/products/fuel-pumps/dw300-detail

But when you had your wideband sensor dying, did the car act as if it was lean? Not just showing a lean condition on the gauge.
Maybe I am wrong in assuming the computer would still follow the rpm and kpa to have the engine run properly(since its already been tuned), however have the gauge show as lean.

I did move my fuel pressure guage in cabin, I can verify it does hold accordingly with regular driving. I have not taken it into boost since it has started to show to be this lean. (Before this lean situation popped up it did raise at a 1:1 rate as it should).


You run megaquirt correct? I know those have an o2 feedback on them. Not sure if your using it? If so it could definately cause the cause to move in the lean direction. I know with the AEM V2 I have you can designate how much correction it can take over. Not certain how MS works.

[Sleepy]

Yep, megasquirt to be specific the ms2 chip.

Hum.. I will have to check that out, worse comes to worse I can always throw a new wide band sensor in it, they are only 50 bucks at autozone.

Very much a tuning newb :( Know just about enough to keep the car running. I have a long way to go with implementing all the options ms has to offer.

Thanks a ton for the help guys. I will check out the fuel filter and the wideband feed back and will report back with what I find.

[Xboosted23X]

I would go get a sample and test it. I haven't ran into any stations that were selling anything other than e70 in iowa though.

[Sleepy]

I figured it was high hopes that they would start selling true e85 over half way into the summer.

I'm going to end up being out of town camping this weekend(hot as sh*t) however when I get back I am going to pull the wideband sensor and through a new one in it. The MS does have a ego function that does adjust per feedback from the 02.

I guess I would have assumed if the sensor was dying it would go full lean and stay there. With readjusting my map it reads correctly, just the ve table is higher than what it once was.

[BGjohnson]

Now that you mention it, I had the a/f saftey kick in a few days ago under boost. It hasn't done it since, but it had never done it before. I'll keep an eye on it too.

[Sleepy]

So I just got a chance to actually look and drive with the car.

I picked up a new 02 sensor from autozone, swapped it in and looked over all my exhaust connections pre 02 sensor. I can not see or feel any exhaust leaks.
I also swapped in a solid front motor mount. But that makes no difference to this.

So I burned my old tune to the car. Went for a drive and same thing, shows as lean all over again. All sensors read normal. I have no clue why it would be doing this.

[BGjohnson]

IAT CLT normal?

I'd check fuel pressure while driving/boosting.

Plus it's hot as shit, which could be affecting a few different systems.

[Sleepy]

Coolant and intake temps are reading correct. That was the first thing .org guys asked. I have watched fuel pressure while cruising and it stays solid. In boost.. well I have only taken it up a few pounds because it goes dumb lean.

I'm grasping for straws however I ordered an e85 tester and will get it tomorrow. From searching it sounds like a car that was tuned on e70 then got a tank of e85. A guy with a cobra on Svt performance had the same symptoms and that was what it ended up being.
I emailed kum and go to see what type of testing or blending they do.

[BGjohnson]

the difference in e-70 and e-85 shouldn't be that great. But it's a good place to start.

[AutoMods]

the difference in e-70 and e-85 shouldn't be that great. But it's a good place to start.

stoich


E70
10.6975



E85
9.852




I think its 8% difference between e70 and e85. its something but not huge. read the spark plugs

not sure about MS but lots of factory pcm's and aftermarket too, do not look at o2 sensors react/do fuel trimming during wot

another thing to think about.....whenever fuel doesn't ignite (misfires/ignition issues) its shows up as oxygen rich (lean afr) on your wideband readings fyi

[Sleepy]

So, tested the fuel in my tank. About E73-74.
I suppose I am not surprised, but its nice to rule it out before tearing into things.

Tonight or tomorrow I will get the tank drained and pull the fuel pump out to check the prefilter to see if its clogged.

Are there any tests that can be done to the fuel pump while its out to ensure it is working correctly?

[AutoMods]

So, tested the fuel in my tank. About E73-74.
I suppose I am not surprised, but its nice to rule it out before tearing into things.

Tonight or tomorrow I will get the tank drained and pull the fuel pump out to check the prefilter to see if its clogged.

Are there any tests that can be done to the fuel pump while its out to ensure it is working correctly?

I have a pump test bench I can flow test the pump for you at a few different pressures for $25

[ashanson]

E70 to E85 is not really a big difference. Only slightly more than going from pure gas to E10 they sell at the pump nowadays. Yes, it will affect your AFR by .4-.6, but not enough to make it quit running. Plus, the REAL E85 is higher octane, so you shouldn't be worried :) I wish I could still run this stuff.

[Sleepy]

Yeah, its either a filthy fuel sock on the pump or the pump itself is not flowing well. Which I do not get since fuel pressure seems to be the same.

Honestly doubtful I will mess with it till winter, priorities changed and I have a ton of housework to do now.

[Sleepy]

So I actually got some time to pull the tank out the other night. Clean as a whistle.

One thing I have been frustrated by since spring is that if my car sits for more than a day or two with out running is the battery dies. Quick charge and its good to go.
However I tried to charge the battery and it will only get up to 70% and just running the fuel pump to check for leaks the battery drops in voltage from 12 to 9-8-7 in the matter of 30 seconds and is then dead.

Could having a faulty battery cause a fuel pump to not run at full flow?(even though logs show battery volts solid at 13.8)