Cobra Dyno Day

[Batwood]

This Saturday, Logan (bonesaw) and myself went up to Modular Powerhouse in Rockford to get some tuning done by Tim Barth.
I've never had such a great experience or more fun at a shop. We spent 12 hours and fought some random issues that come up on each car.
I'll let Logan speak for himself, but I was extremely happy with the improvements in my car.

Last year it put down 507whp/504wtq on the same dyno.
I ended up melting a piston on my old Aluminator motor at the IAF track day last year. My new motor is a stock iron block 4.6 with a 2.3 Whipple.
I upgraded the fuel system as well, although it was far from being maxxed out last year. So, basically the only thing changed power-wise from last year was the blower. I had a ported Eaton (Stage 4 I think) on 17psi.
The whipple should be around 21 psi, but I haven't gotten to actually drive it and see.

Final #'s were 641whp/610wtq. 134whp gained from a baby Whipple.

1128


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=433730503370637&set=vb.100002010741451&type=2&theater

I'm not sure exactly what the car should run now, but I do know I probably gained 120lbs or more on the front end. :(
11.4@123 on a 1.9 60' last year... so I'm hoping with some slicks, I can hit 10s.

[JacobS]

you make my power at 2800rpm...you suck.

good job brian. if anyone deserves a good racing year its you. hopefully all your hard work pays off

[AutoMods]

nice. casey had around that horsepower so shouldn't be a problem for you to get into the 10's.

[slow ride]

Sweet, thats some mad tark yo. Did you ever figure out what caused the piston failure last year?

[Batwood]

Sweet, thats some mad tark yo. Did you ever figure out what caused the piston failure last year?

A bad combination of being beat on before I got it (20psi on stock fuel setup...clogged original filter even), some pretty bad blow by causing oil to pool in the intake, and possibly even low fuel at the track. I ran out of gas on the way home but the gauge showed 1/8 tank. . Massive detonation.

[snickerlicker]

Nice #'s! And oh BTW Mod motor FTW again!

[c_mart_28]

Nice! What fuel to run 21 psi?

Know what kinda timing you ended up running?

I miss my 2.3 at this point. Enjoy the torque and having to buy new tires a tad more often :)

[JustinS]

Good work Brian.

[Batwood]

Nice! What fuel to run 21 psi?

Know what kinda timing you ended up running?

I miss my 2.3 at this point. Enjoy the torque and having to buy new tires a tad more often :)

It was tuned on E70. 21* of timing.
I think it might be pullied for 23psi but I'm expecting to see 21 on the gauge due to headers.

[stangvortech]

Congrats man!!! 10's are coming!

[c_mart_28]

What is the pulley combo?

[Domestic Disturbance]

good lawd

[Batwood]

What is the pulley combo?

I'm pretty sure its a 3.2 upper, 4 lb lower. Was going to do a 6 lb lower but didn't.
Gen 2 rotors on the Whipple also. I'm told thats an extra 2psi compared to the same combo on a Gen 1?

I was fighting the urge to push timing and boost higher... but then I remembered how much fun putting that motor in was. :chairfall:

[c_mart_28]

I'm pretty sure its a 3.2 upper, 4 lb lower. Was going to do a 6 lb lower but didn't.
Gen 2 rotors on the Whipple also. I'm told thats an extra 2psi compared to the same combo on a Gen 1?

I was fighting the urge to push timing and boost higher... but then I remembered how much fun putting that motor in was. :chairfall:

Gotcha. I was running a 4 lb lower and 2.75" upper on my gen 1 2.3. Kurgan stopped at 21.5* if I'm not mistaken.

You're making killer power, you'll love it. No sense in pushing it for 20ish hp.

What the heck did Logan make for power?!

[bonesaw53]

I made 734hp & 688tq with slicks on.. Personally im not that happy with the power but oh well.. gonna go to karls and see what it puts down with street tires.

[Scott]

I made 734hp & 688tq with slicks on.. Personally im not that happy with the power but oh well.. gonna go to karls and see what it puts down with street tires.

Give up the dyno addiction and tune at the track

[c_mart_28]

I made 734hp & 688tq with slicks on.. Personally im not that happy with the power but oh well.. gonna go to karls and see what it puts down with street tires.
Let me know when you go. I'd love to see that car in person.
At least you know your setup is track-worthy.

[snickerlicker]

Give up the dyno addiction and tune at the track

X2! The fastest stock motor Cobra has similar dyno #'s, but runs in the 8's.

http://youtu.be/pCdFDrwWDhs

Thread about it, Slow Ride should remember him from the DSM days;

http://www.modularfords.com/threads/191170-New-Stock-Motor-Record!

[slow ride]

Yea, Harolds car (t400 trans, solid rear). I just wouldn't go thinking you should be running his times around here though with the same power. Aside from Harolds car being well set up (t brake, suspension, etc) and has a lot of practice most of the guys out east make more power than the dyno shows sae corrected due to the sweet altitude and weather conditions. When you factor in a blower that is maxed out it can really help the performance running in those conditions. I think Joe (Allgo) said Harold was running a few tenths slower at the mod race down south a few years ago than he did at home. I also think Joe ran some of his best times at that time during the race so take that how you want.

Either way both you guys made some decent power on a PD blower. Probably more than you can use at slow speeds on the street. The dyno is a great tuning tool, but unless you use it correctly (using the same one, calibration, etc) and understand all the factors that play into translating power shown to et/mph at the track it can really leave you scratching your head sometimes (especially in a stick car). I think Casey had the best et/mph to power/weight ratio going with the manuals around here (that I know of).

[BGjohnson]

I made 734hp & 688tq with slicks on.. Personally im not that happy with the power but oh well.. gonna go to karls and see what it puts down with street tires.

Slicks definitely robbed you of some power. I hear Karls dyno is kind of a dream crusher though.

[snickerlicker]

Yea, Harolds car (t400 trans, solid rear). I just wouldn't go thinking you should be running his times around here though with the same power. Aside from Harolds car being well set up (t brake, suspension, etc) and has a lot of practice most of the guys out east make more power than the dyno shows sae corrected due to the sweet altitude and weather conditions. When you factor in a blower that is maxed out it can really help the performance running in those conditions. I think Joe (Allgo) said Harold was running a few tenths slower at the mod race down south a few years ago than he did at home. I also think Joe ran some of his best times at that time during the race so take that how you want.

Either way both you guys made some decent power on a PD blower. Probably more than you can use at slow speeds on the street. The dyno is a great tuning tool, but unless you use it correctly (using the same one, calibration, etc) and understand all the factors that play into translating power shown to et/mph at the track it can really leave you scratching your head sometimes (especially in a stick car). I think Casey had the best et/mph to power/weight ratio going with the manuals around here (that I know of).


No, I'm not saying he will run those same times as Harold. Just showing that dyno #'s aren't all they are cracked up to be. Harold's car only makes in the 700whp range, but runs the #'s at the track that most dyno loving people would think it made more like 900whp...You can't race dyno #'s that is for sure. But you've got to be impressed with the times Harold runs with what amounts to basically only a S/C and exhaust change for HP increase, whether its on the East coast or not..

[slow ride]

I hear you. I just get sick of say the vette guys that run out east sometimes and downplay the advantage. They will act like something must be wrong with your car if you are not running the times they do with a given whp. I don't think good DA is the end all be all, but it helps a lot on certian combos. When I see them at a track rental, in 30 deg temps, starting line guy in a parka and a fully prepped track you just have to wonder what the heck the same car would do out here on a test and tune day in the 70's-80's. When I first got my s4 I ran a 13.95 stock in it and was the 2nd fastest on the list next to a guy out east. That was on one of the opening days at CF around 55 deg :) and traction isn't really a problem for a low power awd car.

Any of the local guys dyno a car without changes on say the typical dynojet vs Karls superflow dynojet corrected number? I'm curious how close it would be. I know Buntings dyno spits out the same corrected number also.

[bonesaw53]

Give up the dyno addiction and tune at the track

http://www.lolroflmao.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/motherfucking-game.png

but really I know I shouldn't be upset, and I know tims dyno was said to be a heart breaker but i was really hoping for 850 after the first pull.

[slow ride]

On a side note, what are you two running for clutches?

[JacobS]

I hear you. I just get sick of say the vette guys that run out east sometimes and downplay the advantage. They will act like something must be wrong with your car if you are not running the times they do with a given whp. I don't think good DA is the end all be all, but it helps a lot on certian combos. When I see them at a track rental, in 30 deg temps, starting line guy in a parka and a fully prepped track you just have to wonder what the heck the same car would do out here on a test and tune day in the 70's-80's. When I first got my s4 I ran a 13.95 stock in it and was the 2nd fastest on the list next to a guy out east. That was on one of the opening days at CF around 55 deg :) and traction isn't really a problem for a low power awd car.

Any of the local guys dyno a car without changes on say the typical dynojet vs Karls superflow dynojet corrected number? I'm curious how close it would be. I know Buntings dyno spits out the same corrected number also.

if i remember correctly Central Imports did a test with no changes to the car on theirs and Karls dyno. Karls was 3whp more than central imports dynojet.

[snickerlicker]

I hear you. I just get sick of say the vette guys that run out east sometimes and downplay the advantage. They will act like something must be wrong with your car if you are not running the times they do with a given whp. I don't think good DA is the end all be all, but it helps a lot on certian combos. When I see them at a track rental, in 30 deg temps, starting line guy in a parka and a fully prepped track you just have to wonder what the heck the same car would do out here on a test and tune day in the 70's-80's. When I first got my s4 I ran a 13.95 stock in it and was the 2nd fastest on the list next to a guy out east. That was on one of the opening days at CF around 55 deg :) and traction isn't really a problem for a low power awd car.

Any of the local guys dyno a car without changes on say the typical dynojet vs Karls superflow dynojet corrected number? I'm curious how close it would be. I know Buntings dyno spits out the same corrected number also.

Yeah I agree. One guy in negative DA runs a 10.66 in a stock ZR1 and instantly they are 10 second cars from the factory, or people are told they can't drive for shit because they can't get within .5 of that time. Those track rentals are nice for incredible times in early spring or late fall!

[AutoMods]

the track is a poor estimation of what a car will dyno. too many variables. only use the track when a dyno isn't nearby.

[snickerlicker]

the track is a poor estimation of what a car will dyno. Too many variables. Only use the track when a dyno isn't nearby.

lol!

[FiFdYnUtZ]

Lol!!!

[Batwood]

http://www.lolroflmao.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/motherfucking-game.png

but really I know I shouldn't be upset, and I know tims dyno was said to be a heart breaker but i was really hoping for 850 after the first pull.

You'd rather drive 2 hours to Karls than 15 minutes to Black Widow? Its just a number douchebag.
I'd rather run 10s in a 500whp car than run 10s in a 900whp car if you know what I mean!

Oh... and I need my damn I/C pump back!!!

[bonesaw53]

You'd rather drive 2 hours to Karls than 15 minutes to Black Widow? Its just a number douchebag.
I'd rather run 10s in a 500whp car than run 10s in a 900whp car if you know what I mean!

Oh... and I need my damn I/C pump back!!!

I told you Saturday! and OMG we will go to Black Widow in 3 weeks like we planned too.... Jerk

[AutoMods]

i showed up to black widow on a Saturday appointment a couple years ago. and he had a truck blocking the dyno that needed work so i had to go home. hopefully your appointment goes better. he has a nice dyno though

[allgo]

give up the dyno addiction and tune at the track

agree!!!!

[JacobS]

I told you Saturday! and OMG we will go to Black Widow in 3 weeks like we planned too.... Jerk

you two fight like a married couple...whos tuckin and whos fuckin!?!?

[allgo]

i showed up to black widow on a Saturday appointment a couple years ago. and he had a truck blocking the dyno that needed work so i had to go home. hopefully your appointment goes better. he has a nice dyno though

Never had a problem there..Brian is good shit..

[allgo]

Dave Guy is the #1 modular motor tuner in the land period..he tunes the FASTEST modular cars out there.
He does remote tuning to..did mine baseline from black widow

[snickerlicker]

Dave Guy is the #1 modular motor tuner in the land period..he tunes the FASTEST modular cars out there.
He does remote tuning to..did mine baseline from black widow

x2! And blimp head Bob Kurgan is good too. Here is one he just tuned, stock motor 3.4 whipple on E85= 869whp

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Kurgan-Motorsports/73049112549?ref=stream

[Batwood]

you two fight like a married couple...whos tuckin and whos fuckin!?!?

Wellll we were planning on coming to your house tonight so we wouldn't have to take turns.

Lol Logan just givin you shit. You just shouldn't be upset until you race it. And DONT TEAR IT APART until you make some passes

[Batwood]

On a side note, what are you two running for clutches?

Spec 3+ w Fidanza flywheel.

[bonesaw53]

Wellll we were planning on coming to your house tonight so we wouldn't have to take turns.

Lol Logan just givin you shit. You just shouldn't be upset until you race it. And DONT TEAR IT APART until you make some passes

DONT TELL ME WHAT TO DO! I'M HURT AND LOOKING AT PARTS THAT CAN FULFILL MY NEEDS!


But im running a McLeod RXT twin disk clutch and Findanza flywheel.

[JacobS]

Wellll we were planning on coming to your house tonight so we wouldn't have to take turns.

Lol Logan just givin you shit. You just shouldn't be upset until you race it. And DONT TEAR IT APART until you make some passes


kinky

[Scott]

Allgo would be the guy to listen to, think he's tried 20 tuners on 10 different dynos with 30 different combo's by now.. and you look at the guys going fast I would bet the tune up in the car is not the same as the dyno, correct me if Im wrong here..

I took my car straight off the drag strip running 10's NA in street trim at 3050-3100lbs, had it on a chassis dyno within a couple hours same day, and made a whooping 374hp "corrected" on its BEST pull.. Talk about a slap of reality

[Scott]

the track is a poor estimation of what a car will dyno. too many variables. only use the track when a dyno isn't nearby.

Now that is just classic!

[Batwood]

I took my car straight off the drag strip running 10's NA in street trim at 3050-3100lbs, had it on a chassis dyno within a couple hours same day, and made a whooping 374hp "corrected" on its BEST pull.. Talk about a slap of reality

No shit? Thats crazy.
So my car with 640hp should run at least 8's, right?

[slow ride]

You guys know that big converter autos dyno like crap just because the converter is in the way. Not to mention a big auto eats more power due to the pump, rotating mass of the drums/clutches, etc. Dynoing a manual car gives similar results to a engine dyno except for the drivetrain rotating weight and losses from friction. You can actually see the curve of the engine rather than a big weird looking curve do to the converter not being direct drive. I'm not saying it's better, but a manual just tells the story better on a chassis dyno of how the engine is acting. Not everything about a dyno should be about peak power either. If you drive the car at all, the little stuff matters also.

All that matters at the 1/4 mile track is how the car hooks up and average power put down the entire track. If Scotts car made 50 more hp on that dyno in the full operating range down the track it would show and if it made 50 more over a lesser range it wouldn't have as good of results. An auto does a WAY better job than any of us can do with a h pattern gear box. The launching/shifting advantage more than makes up for the power loss. Heck most of the vette guys I've seen switch to auto in the 10 sec and lower range (FI guys with stupid et to mph ratios) nock off a second or more from 1/4 mile et's. They also quit spliting rear cases so much also :) Dynos don't lie, people do and some forget to factor in a lot of variables when relating dyno power to racing in any form.

[OldSkoolRCR]

My silver car made 595 rwhp on a 150 shot at SpeedInc through a TH350,4800 stall and a slick and still ran 9.6s its a Dyno its a tunning device, nothing more,nothing less!

[slow ride]

Not to mention you can't really chassis dyno some of the crazy stuff you guys run since it's almost impossible to keep it from spinning on the rollers. Dyno (depending on type) doesn't always load the car/engine as hard or make the engine deal with rpm fluctuations like a car spinning on the track. Track is going to be way harder on both the engine and drivetrain. Tuning would be relative to the duty cycle of the engine and it's ability to reject heat. A dyno for a quick pull could be very agressive and live, 1/4 mile car would be a little less agressive, a mile, circle track or road race type car would have to be much safer like a factory tune just based on the duty cycle. All depends on fueling, cooling yada yada. Look at a boat engine, they can really be pushed hard due to the endless supply of water cooling availible.

Who cares really, it's just nice to see a few more badass cars running around.

[sparkles]

Any of the local guys dyno a car without changes on say the typical dynojet vs Karls superflow dynojet corrected number?

I will let you know next week.


a Dyno its a tunning device, nothing more,nothing less!
^This