F1X 5.3 LS Mustang

[skipdownstairs]

So since last fall after hurting the 4g63 at Tri-State I've decide to go an alternate route with a 5.3 LS for some small tire class racing. So all you haters [Ryan;)]that wanted me to keep the 4 banger in it, it's all for sale for someone else that wants to do it. I have a ton of everything to put a 4g in a rear wheel drive car. Here's the new setup were going with


F1X Procharger
Stock Bottom End Truck LS 5.3
ARP Rod Bolts & Head Bolts
Big Stuff 3
Corvette Intake 92mm

[AutoMods]

looks good

[Drifte]

I look forward to even more impressive burnout videos. The 4g mustang had its appeal, but you saw its limits and moved on, hopefully this moves along real nice.

[skipdownstairs]

Thanks guys anybody on here been involved with BS3

[Sunny Z]

Turbo on a stick!

New ISF food? haha

[90 notch]

That my friend is pretty bad ass!Steve o

[stangvortech]

F1x with a stock bottom end??????

[Deimos]

Sweet man I was pricing out the f1x before deciding to go turbo. Those puppies are bad ass. That thing should haul with 1800 hp of pure fun. That looks awesome man.

[Deimos]

Btw torrey has had experience with bs3 I believe.

[BGjohnson]

F1x with a stock bottom end??????

Kind of my thoughts. Are you just trying to blow it up for giggles?

[skipdownstairs]

We will see how much these junkyard bottom ends hold. Big bang theory ls and afew other articles have proved this shooting for 1200 hp is not out of the question. We gapped the rings and have done plenty of research wouldnt be wastin my time on it if i wasnt sure about the setup if the rods and pistons dont i do have plan b and c...

[BGjohnson]

It'll be fun to see what it can handle!

[slow ride]

Looks like a later model 5.3 so at least it's got a little better rod in it:)

[skipdownstairs]

Good eye slowride. Yeah the 06 on up for sure and some late model 05s have the floater pistons and powdered rods (dimple rods) We went down that road with about 4 engines tryn to figure out what is and isn't the blocks are differnt also older engines have a few longer head bolts as well. Were just waiting on afew things from Jason Lee and should be dyno time shortly.

[Scott]

Cool build man, what fuel you running with it? Seems stock bottom is asking for trouble but you guys know way more about the LS stuff than I do. A engine diaper wouldnt be a bad idea to keep the fluid off the tires

[skipdownstairs]

Thanks Scott were going to be running methanol with a 990 Enderle pump and Moran 500 lb injectors and yes for sure an engine diaper might even take some 5 gallon buckets with us to the dyno to take parts home in;)

[90 notch]

Will jason lee be tuning this?

[skipdownstairs]

He said hes going to be close to the phone while its on the dyno but were handling all the tuning

[90 notch]

Where you gonna dyno this?

[skipdownstairs]

Kelly Motorsports dyno in Manchester

[skipdownstairs]

Its a bomb proof shelter

[slow ride]

Whats the top end look like? Heads, intake, etc. Solid roller or hydraulic? The progressive hit of the charger should help keep it together and avoiding a huge peak torque spike. Not sure how the stock crank will like driving the charger though.

[90 notch]

Definately very interested in your project!!!Good luck,steve o

[skipdownstairs]

Worked a little on the top end of course. deal breaker on the crank was the cog belt setups put to much lateral tension on the crank that's why we went gear drive

[snickerlicker]

Whats the top end look like? Heads, intake, etc. Solid roller or hydraulic? The progressive hit of the charger should help keep it together and avoiding a huge peak torque spike. Not sure how the stock crank will like driving the charger though.

I'm not sure how progressive the hit of an F1x really is. I bet it hits like a ton of bricks. Cool build, but in the meantime http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m309/10sec5oh/73590360a625ca246cba1c06601a7cab.jpg

[allgo]

Interesting..but to say a supercharger isnt going to hit hard is wrong..that thing is going to hit like Eddy B hiting a cheeseburger..gear drive will hit harder then a belt to..no slip..instant boost.
P.S. Jason Lee is the man..

[slow ride]

I guess by progressive I don't mean lag like a turbo, just not a huge torque spike like nitrous in a on/off kit without progressive control. Joe, in your logs does the boost even change during a run or is it consistant from start to finish? I figured boost would continue to rise with rpm unless the blower is our of air.

[slow ride]

Yes Scott, it does have the wrong engine in it still :) Hell if we could see Joe's , Chris's cars, etc I'm sure they would be leg humped even more.

[skipdownstairs]

Boost is linear with engine rpm. Thanks steve o for the support :)

[allgo]

my car would make 33 in 1st 34 in 2nd and 34 in high..above 9200rpms it would make 36lbs..it would make that all the way threwthe rpms, would move around about 1lb..would also depend on which gear I would have in the drive..

[StreetSweeper]

Sweet build Andy! Curious to see how it holds together!

[Scott]

I guess by progressive I don't mean lag like a turbo, just not a huge torque spike like nitrous in a on/off kit without progressive control. Joe, in your logs does the boost even change during a run or is it consistant from start to finish? I figured boost would continue to rise with rpm unless the blower is our of air.

I would have to say blower cars are the most violent combos out there, you ever heard allgo pedal his car before?! yikes..

[Scott]

F1x on Alky used in conjunction with a intercooler carries a pretty hefty weight penalty btw.. All depending on what class rules your looking at tho.

[skipdownstairs]

No intercooler since were running methanol.....

[skipdownstairs]

Sweet build Andy! Curious to see how it holds together!

I remembered when I told you what I was doing with the 4 cylinder about 3 years ago George and you were like wtf put a v8 in that bitch. lol.

[OldSkoolRCR]

Very nice build Andy....should be a handfull, just kills me to see the motor all opened up, and you not forgeing it up...lol

[AutoMods]

are those rods the same strengh as the ls2 and lq9 rods?

Are the piston ring lands still a weak point like in the ls1 ?

[allgo]

did i miss where it said why you where not putting a ford motor in it?

[AutoMods]

did i miss where it said why you where not putting a ford motor in it?



have done plenty of research wouldnt be wastin my time on it if i wasnt sure about the setup


i guess the research pointed to chevy. haha

[FiFdYnUtZ]

I just wanna know what kind of valve spring retainers you plan to run...and what kind of egt's do you expect to produce?

[snickerlicker]

are those rods the same strengh as the ls2 and lq9 rods?

Are the piston ring lands still a weak point like in the ls1 ?

Sounds like a few to many weak points..

[sparkles]

What's your torque on your lugnuts gonna be? What scent of air freshener are you going to use?

[skipdownstairs]

People always seem to rember the fact that one bad apple spoils the rest of them.
With that said one person hears of of a set of rods getting bent or ring lands getting knocked off the pistons and believes that an engine or this engine wont make a certain amount of power.

Whos to say that person never gapped the rings and put a ton of heat into those pistons and wammo busted ass ring lands or had too much timing because his small block chevy takes 36* timing why cant this ls motor with 20 psi do it. I can go on and on...
These boosted LS engines only need 12-18 degrees of timing from what I have seen.

We are using all lightweight valvetrain to utilize the stock lifters and a special grind cam to keep from compressing the lifters. This thing wont be reving over 7000 rpm.

[skipdownstairs]

What's your torque on your lugnuts gonna be? What scent of air freshener are you going to use?

Lol thats funny!

[Domestic Disturbance]

I'm in love. At least someone around here was smart enough to put a good engine in a mustang.

And allgo, how high are you spinning that thing? Excuse my ignorance but 9200 caught me off guard.

[snickerlicker]

I'm in love. At least someone around here was smart enough to put a good engine in a mustang.

And allgo, how high are you spinning that thing? Excuse my ignorance but 9200 caught me off guard.

Yes your ignorance is excused, he does spin it to 9200. As far as someone being smart enough to put a good engine in a Mustang, Ford does it every day at the factory, it's called a Coyote 5.0 and a 662 HP 5.8. :)

[85XR7Project]

Yes your ignorance is excused, he does spin it to 9200. As far as someone being smart enough to put a good engine in a Mustang, Ford does it every day at the factory, it's called a Coyote 5.0 and a 662 HP 5.8. :)

word!

[Deimos]

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/hrdp_1109_stock_gm_ls_engine_big_bang_theory/

[slow ride]

Yea, yea we like to bicker about brands, etc, but lets keep Andy's thread on topic.

[skipdownstairs]

Another reason check this shit out.

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=526307

[allgo]

I'm in love. At least someone around here was smart enough to put a good engine in a mustang.

And allgo, how high are you spinning that thing? Excuse my ignorance but 9200 caught me off guard.

I would shift around 9200 o 9400..some of my logs I took it to 9800..it would take 10,000rpms..

[skipdownstairs]

This is a vid of the stang on yellow bullet with the 5.3 damn!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2xJRQ0Y5gw&sns=em

[skipdownstairs]

Hey allgo what were you turning for times last year?

[allgo]

I only raced the 1/4 a hand full of times, so never got a full pass off..went 5.16@142 in the 1/8th though..

[BGjohnson]

Most Ls failures I've seen are from the rings squeezing and breaking up the ringlands. Others have been rods. If you look at denmah on the turboforums, he's pushed that 5.3 well beyond what people thought. The gear drive blower helps harmonics dramatically when compared to a cog or belt setup. I think you can get some good power if your tune is spot on.

[AutoMods]

this thread has been around for a long time "Stock Bottom & Boost - Reliability List" http://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/1056169-stock-bottom-boost-reliability-list.html . lots of success but also a decent amount of failures

lq4 rod
http://ls1tech.com/forums/attachments/forced-induction/385691d1357230742-stock-bottom-boost-reliability-list-stock-lq4-rod-over-740whp.jpg

[skipdownstairs]

Ryan that is the lighter duty rod with press wrist pins not the rod of choice

[slow ride]

I have noticed a few differences between the full floating rods also, but nothing that "should" cause one to take more abuse than the other. I still think the piston is the weaker link, but it all depends. Still decent for a $300-$800 boneyard engine.

[skipdownstairs]

We gapped .030 top ring and .028 2nd ring. I butted a ring before total destruction and always ends with a bad day. Bent rod I can deal with its when thy are windowing out the side of the block is when it sucks alot!

[RedRocketZ28]

Most Ls failures I've seen are from the rings squeezing and breaking up the ringlands. Others have been rods. If you look at denmah on the turboforums, he's pushed that 5.3 well beyond what people thought. The gear drive blower helps harmonics dramatically when compared to a cog or belt setup. I think you can get some good power if your tune is spot on.

Denmah has had that motor apart a few times. Had some ringlands break, as well as bent rods a few times. He has thrown a lot at it though with over 20 lbs of boost AND nitrous on top of that. There are so many guys pushing the stock bottom end on these motors very hard and have been doing it reliably for some time. Another guy on LS1tech, Skinnies, has a junkyard L33 5.3 in an 85 LTD. He ran a 9.79 @ 144.6, and makes around 850 rwhp on E85 with a 76mm. It's obviously important to have a good tune-up in the car, and the guy that tunes Skinnies car is very good. Just so happens that it is the same guy who is tuning my car. My LQ4 is an 03, so I don't have the upgraded pistons and rods, but I am hoping that it lives this summer on 700+ rwhp. If something happens to it then I plan to buy a 5.3 and run that until I build a forged 370 out of the LQ4.


I have noticed a few differences between the full floating rods also, but nothing that "should" cause one to take more abuse than the other. I still think the piston is the weaker link, but it all depends. Still decent for a $300-$800 boneyard engine.

Here is the difference between the two.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/denmah/PhotoNov1552918PM.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/denmah/PhotoNov1552940PM.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/denmah/PhotoNov1552947PM.jpg

Pretty substantial if you ask me.

[skipdownstairs]

Nice write up red rocket. We are running the rods and pistons on the left you can tell a big difference between the 2 a guy on ebay was selling these brand new dimple rods from GM for 20.00 each, we have a few spares

[RedRocketZ28]

Nice write up red rocket. We are running the rods and pistons on the left you can tell a big difference between the 2 a guy on ebay was selling these brand new dimple rods from GM for 20.00 each, we have a few spares

You are using the early year rods and pistons? The ones on the right are the beefier ones.

[Scott]

I know the 4 banger ran good in the mustang so I dont expect this to be any different. Guy seems to know what he's doing! Gear drive F1outlaw blower and methanol is gonna be killer.

There was a guy with a chevelle at CFR with a stock LS something engine and a cog belt driven blower on pure ethanol tuned by excessive. That thing ran pretty dam good for a heavy ass car.

My favorite part of a blower engine is how loud they are, I vote for zoomies

[JacobS]

i second that vote!

[skipdownstairs]

You are using the early year rods and pistons? The ones on the right are the beefier ones.

My mistake yes the ones on the right is what I meant don't use the ones on the right your correct.

[derek072887]

My mistake yes the ones on the right is what I meant don't use the ones on the left your correct.
fixed

[AutoMods]

i'd assume your not using arp main studs just oem ? original bearings?

i can quote you on bs3 if you go that route

[skipdownstairs]

I didnt know you were a dealer for bs3 damn I already got it comin from Jason Lee. Yes stock main bearings rod bearings main studs stock as well.

[skipdownstairs]

Getting ready to start this thing in the next couple days how the hell do you prime these ls engines the only way i see it being possible is to force oil into it with an accumulator or something any ideas?

[slow ride]

That or pull the plugs to let it turn over easy and build some pressure.

[RedRocketZ28]

Disconnect fuel and spark and turn it over. That's what I have always done. Works fine.

[Mike@Salkowski-Motorsport]

I use an old oil cooler from the hd 2500s and force the oil in with a air compresor.

[RedRocketZ28]

Everything should be lubed up on install. I have not had any problems.

[skipdownstairs]

Sounds good guys thanks!

[skipdownstairs]

Wish we had as much going on here as they do in Georgia check out this stock bottom end LS class.

http://stockshortblockshootout.com/

[BGjohnson]

That looks like a lot of fun.

[Scott]

I love how LS class has this rule mandatory no matter what! LOL



Required Safety measures for all classes!

- Must run a Sportsman style Engine Diaper that encompases the Oilpan. SFI 7.2 NOT required. Any manufactured basic engine diaper that is designed to retain oil and debris from a catastophic engine failure is allowed.


All honestly that class sounds awesome, lots of engine destruction!

I do have to add that Ford mod motors would clean house if they were allowed

[slow ride]

I would only hold true for one of the mod motors and none of the cheap ones.

[snickerlicker]

All it takes is one. Mod Motor TTT! :)

[Scott]

I would only hold true for one of the mod motors and none of the cheap ones.

I thought mod motors were really cheap, maybe not 500 bucks cheap like LS stuff but shit the rods are worth that much alone!!

[skipdownstairs]

Injectors made it here :)

[AutoMods]

500lb'ers....those are huge . do they have like 350-400lb'ers also ? or do you actually need 500's

[derek072887]

500lb'ers....those are huge . do they have like 350-400lb'ers also ? or do you actually need 500's
got your flame suit on?

[Mike@Salkowski-Motorsport]

He will need them on methanol. Need lots off volume. And I mean a lot for alky.

[AutoMods]

honest question. from memory I believe methanol requires a bit over double the amount of fuel, like 2.25x . 500lb'ers would support over 2500 engine horsepower. but i've never looked into it. maybe their injector sizes jump in size greatly . or maybe its not hard to tune huge injectors on straight methanol. no idea

[sparkles]

This thing is going to get terrible MPGs.

[skipdownstairs]

Jason said to run these, he said theres some growing room he said he has clients using 2 550s per cylinder and they idle like little kittys

[skipdownstairs]

We are running 3.5 -3.8 afrs. Jason says about 2.5 times more fuel under boost than gasoline.

[BGjohnson]

Low Impedance I assume?

[Mike@Salkowski-Motorsport]

No need for drivers. I believe their high impedence

[Sleepy]

This thing is going to get terrible MPGs.

You're killing me :lmao:

You know you have some baller injectors when they come in a case line with foam.

[90blkbrd]

If my searching was right. They would be the same as a 52 lbs injector. They make 120's.

Today's Injector design can spray very accurately and won't ruin mpg like they did a few years ago.

[BGjohnson]

If my searching was right. They would be the same as a 52 lbs injector. They make 120's.

Today's Injector design can spray very accurately and won't ruin mpg like they did a few years ago.


Read it again Jack.
They are 500 LB per hr injectors. About 3000 hp capable.

I don't see how they can be high impedance with a massive solenoid like that. I know bosch makes a 200lb injector that's a high impedance.

[90blkbrd]

Read it again Jack.
They are 500 LB per hr injectors. About 3000 hp capable.

I maxed out 50's at 400 rwhp on a supercharged V6. Had I kept the car I would have put 80's in it.
I don't know the ratio for for a V8 but I'm skeptical on that 3000

[AutoMods]

I maxed out 50's at 400 rwhp on a supercharged V6. Had I kept the car I would have put 80's in it.
I don't know the ratio for for a V8 but I'm skeptical on that 3000


we are talking about 500lb injectors NOT 50lb'ers .

[90blkbrd]

we are talking about 500lb injectors NOT 50lb'ers .

Sorry my bad.

Wow those are huge!

[Sunny Z]

8 x 500 lbs = 4000 pounds if my math is right.

That thing better make some serious power to get down the track and compete with that much weight, let alone the shell that has to weigh at least what, 2600?

[BGjohnson]

We need to start taking bets on when its going to blow. :p

[LT1Dan]

8 x 500 lbs = 4000 pounds if my math is right.

That thing better make some serious power to get down the track and compete with that much weight, let alone the shell that has to weigh at least what, 2600?

Well he is using an LS motor, he'll need all that weight to keep the nose on the ground.

[Mike@Salkowski-Motorsport]

They are rated 500 at 90 psi fuel pressure. Dont think he will run that kind of psi

[Sunny Z]

Well he is using an LS motor, he'll need all that weight to keep the nose on the ground.

Oh good call. Didn't think about that

[Scott]

We need to start taking bets on when its going to blow. :p

I had a guess but decided to hold back due to bad karma. I could see this running really well being patient with it

[93stang5oh]

Pretty sweet Andy! Wow, I'm really behind the times. I had no idea we had a dyno in town! By the way this is Don. :)

[skipdownstairs]

Hey hey! Thanks yeah been trying to get some stuff together to get this pig running had some problems with the wiring on my coils not sure why they are wrong but they were thought it was the box but as John thought it wasn't he was right! John is sending the box and wiring harness back to me my coils came off a 06 Chevy Silverado the picture is what my harness does and this is what big stuff wants it to be as follows....

ls1 coils odd

a: ls1 coil gnd 1 black
b: coil7 red
c: coil5 green
e: gnd brown
f: coil3 light blue
g: coil1 purple
h:ls1 batt pink

[skipdownstairs]

That's what happens when you take shit apart and don't put it back together right if it wasn't for that, it would be running this weekend.

[allgo]

I got a ton of ls1 coil packs if you need extras as back-ups...

[skipdownstairs]

Sweet thats good to know! So the truck coils with the fins are supposed to be the shit right? Quote me if im wrong since its hard to get a straight answer but thats what we have.....

[allgo]

Sweet thats good to know! So the truck coils with the fins are supposed to be the shit right? Quote me if im wrong since its hard to get a straight answer but thats what we have.....

Ive got both tried both and noticed no difference..but that is what I was told to.

[AutoMods]

who did the wiring?

[skipdownstairs]

The old man was trunk to clean stuff up but its my fault I didn't check to make sure it was right

[skipdownstairs]

Dyno video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Awa2W6x1h9k&feature=youtu.be

[BGjohnson]

Badass man. You sure proved me wrong!

[Xboosted23X]

That should move out nicely. Are you upgrading tires or anything to hold all that power?

[slow ride]

Nice, have you calculated how fast you are spinning the blower and if so does it have anymore left in it? What intake manifold is on it? It would be nice to spin it higher as power is strong up top, but I'm not so sure about the stock bottom end at really high rpm. This thing should out run the old 4g63 by a good amount :)

Nevermind I noticed it's a ls2 intake right? Got any compression numbers or heads? Still down on some power compared to the big guys around here, but if the raceweight is kept low enough and everything else is sorted well it should make a real good showing if you are trying to run it in the 10.5 class. I'm sure everybody would love to have the car count go up.

[AutoMods]

can't wait to see how it runs down strip, keep it up

[Scott]

Nice, have you calculated how fast you are spinning the blower and if so does it have anymore left in it? What intake manifold is on it? It would be nice to spin it higher as power is strong up top, but I'm not so sure about the stock bottom end at really high rpm. This thing should out run the old 4g63 by a good amount :)

Nevermind I noticed it's a ls2 intake right? Got any compression numbers or heads? Still down on some power compared to the big guys around here, but if the raceweight is kept low enough and everything else is sorted well it should make a real good showing if you are trying to run it in the 10.5 class. I'm sure everybody would love to have the car count go up.

Got me covered by a good margin in both power and weight category! Nice work man, did that actually say 48 dyno pulls?? Dam its gonna be wore out before you race it!

[RedRocketZ28]

That's awesome man. Congrats. People have been putting these motors through hell and back. It's amazing others haven't seen the light yet!

[slow ride]

Whatev Scott you might not be making the highest peak numbers, but it's one hell of an average. :) I'd bet you would be way up there on a engine dyno with all the kits running.

I'd like to see what Andy's engine would do with some sort of high rise intake, built bottom end and solid roller valvetrain.


Got me covered by a good margin in both power and weight category! Nice work man, did that actually say 48 dyno pulls?? Dam its gonna be wore out before you race it!

[skipdownstairs]

Thanks guys for the support!! It took a little bit to dial in we are being limited by the stock coils I talked to a couple guys and Big stuff 3 has coils available for our application which will help but not really sure how much more power I want to put on what we have like Scott says were sitting pretty good where we are as long as we can get it to go down the track for 10.5

[Domestic Disturbance]

so sick. Good job

[stangvortech]

I don’t know I just can’t believe it made that power with a stock bottom end. Good job that’s crazy! I guess I will have to hot rod my tahoe now. Lol

[Domestic Disturbance]

its a slightly different 5.3 than yours john. You may hold off on the f1x

[skipdownstairs]

Some random pics I thought I'd post for the hell of it Special thanks to Mike Salkawski for making me the blower inlet! Also a couple pics of that 10 micron stainless filter setup from System One and a pic of the Top Alcohol ngk 6061 plugs we are using

[BGjohnson]

That inlet is badass!

[93stang5oh]

Sweet!

[AutoMods]

:friday:

[skipdownstairs]

Thanks guys should suck up some bugs and birds and people

[Mike@Salkowski-Motorsport]

Looking good Andy!

[OldSkoolRCR]

Looks like Allgo orig. inlet

[snickerlicker]

Looks like Allgo orig. inlet

Yep!

[Domestic Disturbance]

badass

[Scott]

Does your puke tank vent back into the car?? Hard to tell whats going on there

[skipdownstairs]

lol It vents into the windshield cowling into a containment system.

[Ls1sleeper]

this is badass man! im basically doing the same thing but with a 6.0, or a 6.2l i got that is now a 396. i cant decide any new updates?

[skipdownstairs]

Threw on a Holley Hi Ram intake a few weeks ago had to hack a hole in the hood as well. Were glad we put it on when we did my air shifter malfunctioned and the motor went to 7800 on the 2-3 shift and she went up to 40 psi I dont think that the old plastic intake would have liked that to much. Probably would have been a big fireball and shit.

[skipdownstairs]

Heres a screen shot of my timing table for you LS engine builders that are boostin

[AutoMods]

Running 30psi now ?

[93stang5oh]

Pics of the engine compartment doesn't do it any justice, that intake is pretty sweet. By the way it was good BS'ing with you Friday night a blue collar. Hope I wasn't sounding too stupid, I was getting pretty full on Bud Light. :)

[stangvortech]

That is a sick setup!

[civicex_1134]

Cant wait to see it at the strip, or some more videos. great job!

[83s10v8]

I enjoy this car.