Thoughts and Ideas for a "Makers Space" in Cedar Rapids?

[Chicago_DSM]

Hey IAF --

I wanted to run an idea by you guys. Pick your brain a bit on a new project I'm involved with. See what you think.

On I-380 off Exit 17 (in Cedar Rapids) once lived a classic car showroom by the name of Duffy's. The only remnants of its existence are three shells (one of a gorgeous '59 caddy) protruding from billboards. Along with the 15,000+ Sq. Ft space are a number of auto shops (auto body, hot rods, etc) still in operation.


1023

I met with the landlord and his business partner recently to discuss their vision for the space. They are planning to renovate the lot by transforming it into a "Makers Space" (what I would describe as a 'playground for guys'). In some circles called Hackerspaces (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hackerspace). A collaborative environment for people to explore hobbies, crafts, business opportunities, connect with likeminded people, or just have fun and make things. As a member (monthly fee), one would have access to every tool under the sun, educational programs; you name it.

What type of 'stuff'? Ideas tossed around included dedicated areas for woodshop, auto repair (lifts, toolboxes), metal fabrication, 3D printing, home brewing, auto painting -- but nothing is off-limits. If there is enough interest, they will build/buy it. This is a community space.

1022

Other notes:
- Multi-generational: They want to build a place for everyone. A place you can bring your kids to tinker, shuttle in seniors to work with their hands, or escape the family altogether to complete a side-project.
- Eco-friendly: Atop the building are a row of functional solar panels. The property also has the potential for a wind turbine.

Examples of others:

Pumping station one (http://pumpingstationone.org/)
The Sawdust shop (http://www.sawdustshop.com/)

There's the brief. Now I need your help.

Would you use a space like this?
What hard-to-rent/find/access tools would influence your decision to use a space like this?
How much would you be willing to spend for a membership to a Makers Space? How much is TOO much?

Your input means the world. Be honest. Tell us we're crazy. Tell us what you would do. Tell us your feedback and I can promise you it will be taken into consideration.

Thanks.

// josh

[AutoMods]

My business and hobby finds many uses for mills and lathes. I would definitely pay $50-$75 a month to have access to cnc mill and lathe and other metal working tools. sounds like an awesome idea. Are you a partner in this business ???

[bonesaw53]

Would there be a tier system? for x price the client would get use of certain areas then a more expensive tier would get you over night access and storage for a car? If there is a possibility to have a partial shop to use for less then renting out a garage/ shop I would most defiantly be interested. especially if I would be able to store a car there, but that just me. Welding equipment, mills, lifts, open shop area, possibly a "club house" for users to chat, watch football or sports games and just hang out.

[sparkles]

Will there be stripper poles?

[Sunny Z]

Sounds cool, but just from my knowledge of safety and liability *puts on old man pants*

How do you keep unauthorized persons off of "specialty" equipment?

It would kill me to see/ hear of someone getting maimed / hurt from any of this.

I've personally almost lost an eye (safety glasses saved me) from a cutoff wheel on an angle grinder that shattered.

[TbTalon94]

Great idea but i'm with Sunny Z. I have a shop of my own with many tools that I would never want anyone to tinker with, let alone some kid or older guy with shaky hands.

That being said, I need access to a Mill/Lathe and or 3d printer almost weekly because those are the only machines I do not have...so I would pay a membership to be able to use those.

Keep us updated if this is going to happen.

[Chase]

This sounds great, one concern I have would be that a lot of projects are not an overnight thing. So how would one go about reserving space for say days at a time. On top of that we all know how easy it is for a schedule to get pushed back from not only challenges that arise but just from day to day events that get in the way...?

Do you have an estimate of member count/goal and roughly what you are looking at per month for members?


Things I would love to see.

-Tire Changer/Balancer
-Welder
-Pipe Bender
-Mill
-3d printer would be great
-common air tools of course.

Another question that comes to mind would be training. Say there is a Mill, will it be unnecessary to attend a class or training on how to use it? Same with say the tire changer or really anything.

Please keep us posted. After moving from a house with a shop to an apartment, I would defiantly utilize something like this.

[Scott]

I would love access to CNC mill/lathe and a 3d printer.. The problem would be you NEED skilled users to use these machines safely so you would almost need a employee as a engineer and a CNC operator to control this. Otherwise your asking for trouble.

[85XR7Project]

Why the need for CNC? You can get a smaller mill for use with conversational programming but if you don't know feeds and speeds that will be useless. I would look into a simple manual engine lathe and a bridgeport mill, if you can't make what you are wanting/needing with that you shouldn't be touching the machines in the first place. A 3d printer would be pretty cool though. I like the idea, having access to just a lathe and a mill and I would be in, I could use them at work but I don't really like being there on my own time.

[Scott]

if you can't make what you are wanting/needing with that you shouldn't be touching the machines in the first place.

yep

[AutoMods]

bridgeport mill

I don't think there are that many rotary engines around here to justify that

[86svo9L]

Bridgeports are great. Cannot beat the simplicity of a non cnc mill for those quick jobs.

[sLoWnStEaDy]

Neat idea but it sounds like a disaster waiting to happen...

[85XR7Project]

I don't think there are that many rotary engines around here to justify that

Not sure if serious or retarded...

[Chicago_DSM]

You guys are awesome! Let me quickly address some of your responses.


My business and hobby finds many uses for mills and lathes. I would definitely pay $50-$75 a month to have access to cnc mill and lathe and other metal working tools. sounds like an awesome idea. Are you a partner in this business ???

That's super helpful, thank you! I am more a strategic partner than equity partner. My company provides online marketing /community building / branding services. We're a part of the ideation phase, so I'm helping crowdsource ideas.


Would there be a tier system? for x price the client would get use of certain areas then a more expensive tier would get you over night access and storage for a car? If there is a possibility to have a partial shop to use for less then renting out a garage/ shop I would most defiantly be interested. especially if I would be able to store a car there, but that just me. Welding equipment, mills, lifts, open shop area, possibly a "club house" for users to chat, watch football or sports games and just hang out.

That's exactly what they in mind. They have an awesome area for the 'club house'. I do not believe they are looking to offer storage services on a longer-term basis (ie. Winter storage). But overnight (or a few), I can see that.


How do you keep unauthorized persons off of "specialty" equipment?

From my understanding, there will be one or more professional(s) on staff supervising with high-risk projects and equipment. I realize this question will likely come up again; I'll shoot them an email for a more encouraging (and official) response.


Great idea but i'm with Sunny Z. I have a shop of my own with many tools that I would never want anyone to tinker with, let alone some kid or older guy with shaky hands.

That being said, I need access to a Mill/Lathe and or 3d printer almost weekly because those are the only machines I do not have...so I would pay a membership to be able to use those.

Awesome, thank you! Feedback noted.


This sounds great, one concern I have would be that a lot of projects are not an overnight thing. So how would one go about reserving space for say days at a time. On top of that we all know how easy it is for a schedule to get pushed back from not only challenges that arise but just from day to day events that get in the way...?

Do you have an estimate of member count/goal and roughly what you are looking at per month for members?

Another question that comes to mind would be training. Say there is a Mill, will it be unnecessary to attend a class or training on how to use it? Same with say the tire changer or really anything.

Please keep us posted. After moving from a house with a shop to an apartment, I would defiantly utilize something like this.

Really solid feedback here, thank you Chase!
1) I suspect reserving a dedicated spot for longer-term projects can be worked in, the same way you can do with a traditional coworking space. That's also the benefit of a community space. More hands to help you troubleshoot and finish on time.
2) I'd rather not guess. How much would you be willing to spend if a space like this had all of the tools you listed at your disposal? re: people --> They are limited to about ~100-125 street & lot parking spaces, so that will be a factor.
3) The 'skill audit' might be baked into a new member on-boarding process (guess?). So if you could prove you had the experience, you would not need training. But classes would be available on a regular basis for each piece of equipment.
4) Thanks! Glad to hear it.


I would love access to CNC mill/lathe and a 3d printer.. The problem would be you NEED skilled users to use these machines safely so you would almost need a employee as a engineer and a CNC operator to control this. Otherwise your asking for trouble.

I suspect you are correct.

[AutoMods]

Not sure if serious or retarded...

or great sense of humor maybe?

[einhander]

Would you use a space like this?
What hard-to-rent/find/access tools would influence your decision to use a space like this?
How much would you be willing to spend for a membership to a Makers Space? How much is TOO much?

Your input means the world. Be honest. Tell us we're crazy. Tell us what you would do. Tell us your feedback and I can promise you it will be taken into consideration.

1) Absolutely yes I would Use it. (i registered just to post here to say PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make this happen)
2) Lazer Cutters, CNC Machines, 3dPrinters, Welding tools, Tools used for cutting and molding acrylic.
3) $20-45 a month, It should be family wide. So my child can come with me without any additional fees. $50-75 a month will be too much.

You aren't crazy. I've been looking for a Maker space in Cedar Rapids. The closest one is in Iowa City and it is small with only about 5 members.
With big engineering companies in Cedar Rapids like Rockwell Collins, your maker space would get huge amounts of use from engineers coming there to use tools for their inventions. Everyone knows engineers can't help themselves but to create things. :)

[Scott]

1) Absolutely yes I would Use it. (i registered just to post here to say PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make this happen)
2) Lazer Cutters, CNC Machines, 3dPrinters, Welding tools, Tools used for cutting and molding acrylic.
3) $20-45 a month, It should be family wide. So my child can come with me without any additional fees. $50-75 a month will be too much.

You aren't crazy. I've been looking for a Maker space in Cedar Rapids. The closest one is in Iowa City and it is small with only about 5 members.
With big engineering companies in Cedar Rapids like Rockwell Collins, your maker space would get huge amounts of use from engineers coming there to use tools for their inventions. Everyone knows engineers can't help themselves but to create things. :)

Aint that the truth! LOL

at 20-45 a month access to all those machines just sign me up for lifetime membership

[AutoMods]

whats the iowa city one?

[bonesaw53]

I just dont see how this could be a feasable buisness at $45 a month. With the amount of equipment that they are planning on having and size of the facility for that pricing too work it would be filled with people. They would need to price it at a point that they can still turn a profit but not pushing themself out of the market.

[einhander]

whats the iowa city one?

Fuzzlabs (http://fuzzlabs.org/)


@bonesaw - I would disagree. I think you underestimate the amount of people that would sign up for memberships. Especially in a CR Area. I can think of 5 of my friends off the top of my head that would be signed up in a heartbeat. Past $45 a month you start to force people to pick between what things they are subscribed to. People have to start asking the question, smart phone or internet or gym membership, etc VS. maker space membership. I'm willing to bet almost all those other options will win out. At least that's my opinion. If I had to choose between paying for internet at home or my maker space membership I'd opt for internet.

Another option is, something similar to this. LA Makerspace (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tara/los-angeles-makerspace-a-family-friendly-innovatio) And make it community driven.

I would also consider talking to the city about it. You might be able to get some grants.

EDIT: Also consider contact the companies that provide tools. You would be surprised as to how many would sponsor it for their logo to be displayed on Sites and such. Especially if someone makes something worth of being on Wired. Having their logo's in photos and such could be more than enough to support tool costs.

EDIT2:
They would need to price it at a point that they can still turn a profit but not pushing themself out of the market.

For-profit makerspaces goes against the mindset of many involved in the open source, open hardware, hacker, tinker community.

[bonesaw53]

Fuzzlabs (http://fuzzlabs.org/)


@bonesaw - I would disagree. I think you underestimate the amount of people that would sign up for memberships. Especially in a CR Area. I can think of 5 of my friends off the top of my head that would be signed up in a heartbeat. Past $45 a month you start to force people to pick between what things they are subscribed to. People have to start asking the question, smart phone or internet or gym membership, etc VS. maker space membership. I'm willing to bet almost all those other options will win out. At least that's my opinion. If I had to choose between paying for internet at home or my maker space membership I'd opt for internet.

Another option is, something similar to this. LA Makerspace (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tara/los-angeles-makerspace-a-family-friendly-innovatio) And make it community driven.

I would also consider talking to the city about it. You might be able to get some grants.

EDIT: Also consider contact the companies that provide tools. You would be surprised as to how many would sponsor it for their logo to be displayed on Sites and such. Especially if someone makes something worth of being on Wired. Having their logo's in photos and such could be more than enough to support tool costs.

Opting out for a specific price I agree past $45 a month you start limiting your self but both of the two places you showed me are 1) non profit and 2) seems like a large metal and wood working area all done on others free time without pay. From the initial post It seems like lifts, shop tools, possible car storage would be availible. I think thats where the tier system comes into play, would you just want it for metal and woodworking or for full use of the shop. Personally if there was a place that had a lift/shop that I could work on my car, weld, paint and store it I would pay a premium for that. Thats based off the current price for a shop style garage around 800-1000sqft is $600 and up a month. While I wouldn't use it every day I could deffantly see my self using it on the weekends. Thats just me though.

[einhander]

Opting out for a specific price I agree past $45 a month you start limiting your self but both of the two places you showed me are 1) non profit and 2) seems like a large metal and wood working area all done on others free time without pay. From the initial post It seems like lifts, shop tools, possible car storage would be availible. I think thats where the tier system comes into play, would you just want it for metal and woodworking or for full use of the shop. Personally if there was a place that had a lift/shop that I could work on my car, weld, paint and store it I would pay a premium for that. Thats based off the current price for a shop style garage around 800-1000sqft is $600 and up a month. While I wouldn't use it every day I could deffantly see my self using it on the weekends. That's just me though.

Sure, the car storage and such definitely adds a unique component to this. And I could see the people that want to use those services would pay for it. I don't think it's smart to trickle that cost down to the people that don't though. I guess that's more where I'm coming from.

All that said I'm very excited to see there is even discussion happening around this topic for the CR area.

[derek072887]

Sure, the car storage and such definitely adds a unique component to this. And I could see the people that want to use those services would pay for it. I don't think it's smart to trickle that cost down to the people that don't though. I guess that's more where I'm coming from.

All that said I'm very excited to see there is even discussion happening around this topic for the CR area.


I think you have this a little confused.. I looked up the Fuzzlabs thing you mentioned and that does not appear to be the same idea these guys are having.

[einhander]

I think you have this a little confused.. I looked up the Fuzzlabs thing you mentioned and that does not appear to be the same idea these guys are having.

No based on the OP (and his descriptions and links to wikipedia hackspace page), it's essentially the same thing minus the car stuff.

[derek072887]

No based on the OP (and his descriptions and links to wikipedia hackspace page), it's essentially the same thing minus the car stuff.
i don't see this place doing these things like fuzzlabs:
Experiments in pen testing
Experiments in food science
Pirate radio 101
Ham radio prep
Audio video art lab
Meditation and technology experiments
Experiments with servers and networking
Open source software alternatives

do correct me if im wrong though.

[AutoMods]

My brother in law failed to clamp a work piece down properly in a cnc lathe during his 2nd week on his new job . So when it came loose, it wasn't pretty. Caused a $15k repair job on the machine. I think they had to fly someone out to fix it.

Issues like that and I believe the clamps, attachments and bits get pretty expensive, you'd have to work a way out to cover the cost of tool wear etc .

[JacobS]

you would also have to control the time on pieces of equiptment (ie lifts). like a scheduled amount of time for people to use it.

[85XR7Project]

My brother in law failed to clamp a work piece down properly in a cnc lathe during his 2nd week on his new job . So when it came loose, it wasn't pretty. Caused a $15k repair job on the machine. I think they had to fly someone out to fix it.

Issues like that and I believe the clamps, attachments and bits get pretty expensive, you'd have to work a way out to cover the cost of tool wear etc .

This is why I recommend manual machines such as a mill and lathe. CNC's are not for Joe Anybody.

[Ron]

I've shared this info with the Rockwell Collins Auto club and there's significant interest. I agree with the $20 - $45 would get a lot of sign-ups, above that the numbers would drop. A co-worker in our machine shop said he'd join and added he'd teach a waterjet class for free membership. That might be a way to get people with talent to teach classes or supervise or even operate equipment for those who need can't or need help.

[85XR7Project]

he'd teach a waterjet class for free membership. That might be a way to get people with talent to teach classes or supervise or even operate equipment for those who need can't or need help.

This is a great idea. Volunteer teachers whom know what they are doing share their skill and their compensation is no fee. Awesome.

[einhander]

This is a great idea. Volunteer teachers whom know what they are doing share their skill and their compensation is no fee. Awesome.

And that's why community run projects like this are usually more successful than an exclusive expensive membership version.

[DustinsDuster]

while the idea DOES sound really great, the little bit i'll throw in is this: i don't think there'd be a ton of problems with the more educated and respectful group talking here. i think there might be a problem with the more trashy people that i have seen and heard while out at K's Acres with little respect for anything deciding their projects are more important than someone else's there. this concept works great in theory; assuming everyone stays respectful and friendly- and i just don't have a lot of faith in that happening.

i would love to check it out none the less though; even though i have a 1,040sqft (soon to be) heated garage that'll have an 80gal air compressor and 220v welder, i'm sure there would still be things i could stand to use time to time.