sandy hook conspiracy

[AutoMods]

curious to what your guy's opinions on this video is. i have a strong opinion but i'll let you guys go first


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Wx9GxXYKx_8#!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Wx9GxXYKx_8#!

[snickerlicker]

It's JFK all over again. Like the GNR music though.

[SledgeWS6]

SMH. Operation Fast and Furious was a failed 'conspiracy' set up by Eric Holder and his croonies.

[Sunny Z]

It's JFK all over again. Like the GNR music though.

Only there wasnt the threat of constitutional rights being infringed upon..........

[Sunny Z]

I by no means think that it didn't happen. I DO however believe that things have been muddled, and spun in a certain direction to align with what a certain group "wants" to happen.

[snickerlicker]

When doesn't the media muddy shit up..My point is everything is a conspiracy these days, just like JFK was 50 years ago. Nothing new. No gun debate needed.

[SledgeWS6]

No gun debate needed.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. It's one way or another. Breaking bones one-by-one is much more horrible way to die than a quick shot to the chest. Timothy McVeigh didn't use a gun. How many kids died in that tragedy? Sick people need help, end of debate.

[snickerlicker]

^ like I said no gun debate needed....

[SledgeWS6]

^ like I said no gun debate needed....

Sorry...forgot to put my "Amen, Hallelujah, Praise Jesus to that brotha" at the beginning of my rant.

[snickerlicker]

Sorry...forgot to put my "Amen, Hallelujah, Praise Jesus to that brotha" at the beginning of my rant.

Much better!

[TbTalon94]

Shit's fucked up....


yea

[Drifte]

Is it possible to summarize the video, it says its 30 minutes long. I have about 10 minutes free...

[AutoMods]

Is it possible to summarize the video, it says its 30 minutes long. I have about 10 minutes free...

first 10 is all you'll need to see

[Domestic Disturbance]

I try to avoid any video with "conspiracy" in it.

[c_mart_28]

I try to avoid any video with "conspiracy" in it.
Same here..

I watched this though for some reason and it just reinforces why I typically abstain. I'd love to know the real answer but I never will. Not in my lifetime.

I've no question that this is being used as propaganda and that many hundreds of people are in on that fact. Was it something planned and executed on purpose? I hope not. But who knows.

I wish I hadn't watched. Propaganda pointing out propaganda works, too. Apparently.

[Xboosted23X]

I just watched it and thought they had some valid points. If it was fake it is messed up to take advantage of all the people that donated money for the cause.

[85XR7Project]

I haven't exactly believed this since it occurred. This is VERY different from the things we saw after Columbine. Things just don't measure up in my mind. Add to that the use of "dead children" as a stand to push an agenda and the distaste increases. I'm just going to stop before I go on a rant and start a shitstorm.

[Sleepy]

I had seen the video and the "other" stance before this was posted. I watched the majority of the video the other day. I don't know how possible it would be to keep a cover up that large. I do find it extremely interesting that they state he used a rifle however the rifle was never used and was locked in his trunk.

[AutoMods]

that medical examiner was a moron

[Xboosted23X]

I think it would be hard for the locals not to speak out if it was fake. Still a lot of good questions come to mind when you watch the video.

[Caleb]

Same here..

I watched this though for some reason and it just reinforces why I typically abstain. I'd love to know the real answer but I never will. Not in my lifetime.

I've no question that this is being used as propaganda and that many hundreds of people are in on that fact. Was it something planned and executed on purpose? I hope not. But who knows.

I wish I hadn't watched. Propaganda pointing out propaganda works, too. Apparently.

This.

[Caleb]

http://www.reddit.com/r/skeptic/comments/16lkhq/this_sandy_hook_conspiracy_video_has_been_making/


Since no one has really taken the time to debunk this here you go:
First off I want to note - the main contributor of information in this video and around this conspiracy is Alex Jones (Notice the Info Wars clips everywhere including the opening frames). He is, in my opinion, a paranoid nutjob, as was pretty evident by his CNN interview - seriously skip to 3 minutes in and tell me this guy is a credible person. (My intent here is not ad hominem, just wanted to give some context as to the presenters of these "facts" and their origins) Now that that's out of the way let's look at the content of the video...
Theory 1: The first thing the video tries to allege is that there is a second shooter. They love to grab early media footage and then use that as "evidence" of their claims, as if the media's first reporting is somehow golden. Odd that conspiracy theorists distrust the media, then turn around and use its raw reporting claims as evidence. Anyway, you can easily google and figure out who the guy in the woods was.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y6C2YmOLWnM
He is the father of a student there and the athletic director at the highschool. He was on his way to the school to help make gingerbread houses with 1st graders when he heard the shots. He was unarmed, arrested, detained, questioned, and let go. The story of the guy in the woods was a dead end, so the media dropped it. That is the problem with the 24 hour news cycle, they will report any lead they get before sorting out facts. However, this is hardly evidence of a conspiracy.
The video even makes the ridiculous claim that since the guy was sitting in the FRONT of the police car, that he must have some "crazy" credentials. Yeah, what is more likely...that this guy was a concerned father or that he was a man with some "crazy" credentials on a black ops mission to shoot up a school but he just didn't have the skills to properly vacate, and so he ended up getting himself captured by lowly local law enforcement, AND broadcast on national tv, potentially exposing his super secret black op? C'mon.
Theory 2: The gun discrepancy. This can be chalked up to contradictory reporting, which is going to happen when the media competes with itself to be the first one to break any new details. There have already been articles discussing these discrepancies. What is known for sure is he carried at least 2 handguns into the school and had a shotgun in his car. The discrepancies come in when talking about the other weapons, some sources claim it was a Bushmaster AR-15, others claim it was 2 additional pistols and the AR was left in the trunk with the shotgun. The video just merges all of these conflicting reports to say how the story doesn't make sense. This isn't evidence of a conspiracy, just terrible reporting and fact checking.
Theory 3: The nurse is fake and does not exist. This is completely false, and has been debunked with evidence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r61PvN4U3x0
Theory 4: The laughing/crying father. This means absolutely nothing. No one can judge how a father copes with the loss of his daughter, and it's offensive that people are criticizing him for it. I have been to several funerals, I have witnessed family members and friends switch in and out of laughter and tears. They think of memories of the one they lost, they tell stories, they think of their loved one, they laugh, and they cry. People grieve in different ways and we have no idea what's going through this mans mind. Maybe he was thinking of his daughters smile as she woke up every day, and it made him smile, then he was told he's about to go live, so he snapped back to reality. To me it does not seem right to criticize his reaction here, and it's not evidence of a conspiracy.
Theory 5: Emillie Parker is not dead. This is the most absurd thing I have seen so far in the video. The video alleges not only that the girl is not dead, but that the parents were so stupid they brought out the wrong sister for the photo op. What? Do people honestly believe that? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTaC580hfPo It's a picture of her sister. Obviously. They look alike because, you know, they're sister's. This guy uses the same photoshop trick as the conspiracy video and gets the same effect.
Theory 6: One piece of footage of the crime scene does not show many ambulances and shows no children. The author claims this means this was all staged. He goes on to say that only one ambulance was there the whole time and they quickly blocked off all exits. The problem with this is twofold. Firstly, there are several pictures of multiple ambulances (here are a few):
http://imgur.com/hb6kZ,XGWSd,erEJG
http://www.politico.com/story/2012/12/connecticut-school-shooting-official-says-gunman-killed-85094.html
Secondly, this footage that the videos author is commenting on looks to be taken well after the shooting took place, which easily explains why there aren't a bunch of ambulances around and no one is panicking anymore. A fellow redditor describes here that based on the position of the sun in the sky, this video was shot well in the afternoon, 6-7 hours after the shooting took place. More things taken out of context because they fit the authors narrative.
Theory 7: Time stamps on the webpage set up for donations state the page was created before the shootings took place. Google search results do not always accurately reflect the date the content was published. Example) Here is a date restrictive search of sandy hook, listing all articles that appear to be published before the shooting took place. Well damn, according to google this there are articles and videos from these dates talking about the shooting: Jan 14, 2012 , Jun 19, 2012 , Sept 16, 2012 ..well before the shooting took place. Debunked.
Addition: People keep bringing up the facebook page that was made prior to the shooting. The creator of the page said they had made an unrelated page previously, it had no fans in it. After the shootings took place, she renamed the page to be a memorial for one of the victims. This changed the URL, but kept the original creation date of the group. Many claim this is not possible or this is not how facebook works. Here is proof that it is: http://imgur.com/a/U6wWH
Theory 8: There was a planned FEMA meeting scheduled 20 minutes from the time of the shooting which helped slow down the response time of first responders.(Added due to popular demand). I went to the emergency services website for CT to investigate this. This class is offered regularly. It was offered on 11/17, 11/27, 12/3, 12/6, 12/14, and 12/17
In fact, digging a little deeper you can see they have had training classes like these for a long time, such as this one way back on 4/2/2012 called Emergency Planning for Schools (2 day course):
http://www.ct.gov/demhs/ical/eventDetail_page.asp?date_ID=CACBCCCDCE83CDCACA
These tragedies have been happening for awhile, and so has training people to respond to them. Debunked.
Theory 9: "Sandy Hook Conspiracy Actress"... this picture has been making the rounds: http://imgur.com/r/conspiracy/5sdWN it's grainy and taken from a single angle (probably because the intent is to deceive) ... some quick digging and higher quality pictures shows these are clearly 2 different people: http://i.imgur.com/f4AC8.jpg
Other stuff: The people that made this video clearly have their own agenda, which is why they keep bringing up 9/11 and the London bombings (two completely unrelated events). Any time a large, tragic event occurs, many of these conspiracy theorists do their best to gather all of the media reports, then pick and choose to take the media out of context and create their own crazy conspiracy driven narrative for the events that took place. If you are skeptical of this video, you should be. It's crap.
Edit: Looks like Anderson Cooper just did a great piece on this hoax and how it's bogus.

[Sleepy]

That is interesting also, nice to see the counter to the video.

At the end of the day its a tragic event that should have no bearing on the constitution.

[SledgeWS6]

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Enough said.

[Chase]

That is interesting also, nice to see the counter to the video.

At the end of the day its a tragic event that should have no bearing on the constitution.


This!

[AutoMods]

I agree, if the incident happened in cedar rapids, a lot of local people would know the families. like in the case of the dead daughter being photographed with obama. Obviously the family had another daughter that looks similar. you can't hide those type of things from locals. you can think bad about our government but honestly do you think if they were going to create this conspiracy they would mess up on easy details like a photoshoot with the dead girl.

I can edit the dates of facebook postings too, its called photoshop and text/dates are the easiest to change, i can do it and i have only basic photoshop skills

you have to look at the credentials of who made the video. could just be a kid assembling clips on youtube. did any of these people or infowars.com bother to fly out there to do their own interviews with neighbors, school employees, police or hospital workers????

[TbTalon94]

There's a few things that seam suspicious but there's a lot of things that can be explained.

The only things I take away from this are these:

1. Parents don't seam to be greaving or effected at all. Their eyes are clear white, and they "cry" there are no tears. It just doesn't make sense. Anyone with children would look at that and be like "my god I would be histerical let alone be able to crack a smile in an interview". Now I do understand some people greave different then others...but the chances aren't that high to have multiple parents act the same way, and the few I saw interviews of acted all the same. Again could be just a coincidence, but I know damn sure I wouldn't be able to keep composure for weeks let alone the DAY AFTER the tragedy.

2. In the police scanner recording you hear someone say "take the life of Adam". Very suspicious for a few reasons. Why do they know his name already, why wouldn't they say "take out the shooter", or something along those lines. Why wouldn't they try to wound him or take him down before killing him to inquire why he's doing this. The flip side could be well they found his mother dead, tracked his car, what have you and figured out his identity quickly, sure...but why "take the life of Adam". Just seams weird to me I guess.

3. The damn Owl the little girl drew. It's a huge symbolistic icon of societies known to do shit like this. Secrecy, planning outcomes of events and making sure they go as planned to enforce higher changes. If you don't think this happens then you are blind. The Owl has key symbolism in it to represent all kinds of things. The societies like to "brand" their work with shit like this. It's like a serial killer or robber that leaves his mark. They are proud of it, and it shows they are in control.

If it is just all a big Hoax, I feel sorry for the fools who "played the part" in the whole mess. No one in their right mind should fake something like that, i don't care what you get in the end. If it isn't, the nation sure is going the wrong ass way to deal with things like this.

[Sleepy]

There's a few things that seem suspicious but there's a lot of things that can be explained.

The only things I take away from this are these:

1. Parents
2. "Adam"
3. Owl


I completely agree.
Number 3 you are dead on.

[AutoMods]

there is a very high chance of odd things happening when you can pick among tens of thousands of possible odd things after the fact. if you try to predict one weird thing before an incident, the odds are really low it will happen. but if you wait for an event like this to happen and than go back and try to find oddities, you will find them.

here is an example, question for you guys, don't look up the real answer, just guess
if I put you in a room with just random strangers. How many do I have to have in the room for you to be confident that 2 people in the room have the same birthday? As in more than likely (51%+chance)

[Sleepy]

No clue on the answer Ryan.
I do agree, when you look at things after the fact the small details can jump out because you are looking for them.

With the last few shootings there have been details about them that have all gone unexplained or seem odd.

[JacobS]

you guys better put your tin foil hats on....

[JacobS]

i would say to be confident i would have to have 2 twins in the room. but thats to be 100% confident.

[derek072887]

here is an example, question for you guys, don't look up the real answer, just guess
if I put you in a room with just random strangers. How many do I have to have in the room for you to be confident that 2 people in the room have the same birthday? As in more than likely (51%+chance)

366

[z06-tt]

number 2

you got a recording i want to hear this.


There's a few things that seam suspicious but there's a lot of things that can be explained.

The only things I take away from this are these:

1. Parents don't seam to be greaving or effected at all. Their eyes are clear white, and they "cry" there are no tears. It just doesn't make sense. Anyone with children would look at that and be like "my god I would be histerical let alone be able to crack a smile in an interview". Now I do understand some people greave different then others...but the chances aren't that high to have multiple parents act the same way, and the few I saw interviews of acted all the same. Again could be just a coincidence, but I know damn sure I wouldn't be able to keep composure for weeks let alone the DAY AFTER the tragedy.

2. In the police scanner recording you hear someone say "take the life of Adam". Very suspicious for a few reasons. Why do they know his name already, why wouldn't they say "take out the shooter", or something along those lines. Why wouldn't they try to wound him or take him down before killing him to inquire why he's doing this. The flip side could be well they found his mother dead, tracked his car, what have you and figured out his identity quickly, sure...but why "take the life of Adam". Just seams weird to me I guess.

3. The damn Owl the little girl drew. It's a huge symbolistic icon of societies known to do shit like this. Secrecy, planning outcomes of events and making sure they go as planned to enforce higher changes. If you don't think this happens then you are blind. The Owl has key symbolism in it to represent all kinds of things. The societies like to "brand" their work with shit like this. It's like a serial killer or robber that leaves his mark. They are proud of it, and it shows they are in control.

If it is just all a big Hoax, I feel sorry for the fools who "played the part" in the whole mess. No one in their right mind should fake something like that, i don't care what you get in the end. If it isn't, the nation sure is going the wrong ass way to deal with things like this.

[AutoMods]

at what time stamp in the video is the adam stuff ?? i dont want to relisten to it all

[TbTalon94]

I don't remember where it's at in the video. I'm sure you can just search on youtube something like "sandy hook take the life of adam" and i'm sure you can find it.

[AutoMods]

If it is just all a big Hoax, I feel sorry for the fools who "played the part" in the whole mess. No one in their right mind should fake something like that, i don't care what you get in the end. If it isn't, the nation sure is going the wrong ass way to deal with things like this.

so are you guessing that nobody died, some people died or all of the claimed dead are actually dead ?

[Batwood]

366
367 to be 100%.
More than likely should be like 184. lol

[JacobS]

math wizard^

[AutoMods]

367 to be 100%.
More than likely should be like 184. lol

naaa just because there is 365 days in a year doesn't mean you will get a repeated birthday 100% . odds are never quite 100% unless you round.

that would be like saying a coin has two sides so if you flip it twice you will get heads 100%.

flip a coin twice and chances of you getting heads are 75% as in 3 of 4 times

here of the 4 possible outcomes of a coin flip, the first 3 are you winners, 4 is your loser. 75% chance of at least one heads
1. heads heads
2. heads tails
3. tails heads
4. tails tails

i know this seems off topic but basically when conspiracy theorists have tens of thousands of weird things to come up with, odds are very good they will find weird things

[AutoMods]

omfg, look what my daughter brought home from school Friday . her preschool must be in on this conspiracy too. time to start a youtube video of my own. what are the odds of this happening on the same day you guys were talking about owls ?????????????? holy shit .

http://importevolution.com/temp/owl.jpg


so i asked her if she choose to draw an owl or if her teacher told her too. she said some men in black suits came into her school and told them to draw owls. ...................no really... they were learning about the letter 'O' and 'P' that day. she made a penguin too. come on guys. she goes to a christian school too. right winged school drawing owls?



wtf, she has an owl bed too ?????????????????? what does all this mean?

http://importevolution.com/temp/owl2.jpg

[AutoMods]

look at the similarities, here is the sandy hook owl.

http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/qeoOvxOXCBU/mqdefault.jpg

[bonesaw53]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1e3_1358636169&comments=1

[Batwood]

naaa just because there is 365 days in a year doesn't mean you will get a repeated birthday 100% . odds are never quite 100% unless you round.

that would be like saying a coin has two sides so if you flip it twice you will get heads 100%.

flip a coin twice and chances of you getting heads are 75% as in 3 of 4 times

here of the 4 possible outcomes of a coin flip, the first 3 are you winners, 4 is your loser. 75% chance of at least one heads
1. heads heads
2. heads tails
3. tails heads
4. tails tails

i know this seems off topic but basically when conspiracy theorists have tens of thousands of weird things to come up with, odds are very good they will find weird things
If you have 367 people in a room, there is a 100% chance 2 people share a birthday. The guy who says his is June 31 is a damn liar.
You are saying if you flip a coin 3 times you wont 100% get a repeat result. Lol. ...

[AutoMods]

If you have 367 people in a room, there is a 100% chance 2 people share a birthday. The guy who says his is June 31 is a damn liar.
You are saying if you flip a coin 3 times you wont 100% get a repeat result. Lol. ...

sorry, ya your right with 100% if you say ANY two people can share a birthday. I accidentally switched over to thinking about matching a specific birthday. and matching a head or tail. you could actually have 1000 people in a room and nobody have a jan 1st birthday for example

but ya my original question was any two people can match birthdays so you are right , 100% chance with 367 people in a room

but the crazy thing is that you cross the 50% probability of a birthday match with only 23 people in a room if any two people can share a birthday. Heard that on the joe rogan podcast. Joe was basically talking about how the odds of weird shit happening are really good when you don't have anything specific singled out.

[TbTalon94]

look at the similarities, here is the sandy hook owl.

http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/qeoOvxOXCBU/mqdefault.jpg


Yea you can just stop trying to argue. The two owls are COMPLETELY different. Your daughters looks like a regular owl, the sandy hook one has symbolism. I'm not going to argue about it, i was just stating. I really don't know what to believe and really don't care to argue about it. The fact is, people and the government are fucked up and do fucked up things for stupid purposes. That's a fact. It just would not surprise me one bit if this was all a big hoax to get gun control to go through. Not saying it is or isn't...but it just would not surprise me one bit.

[AutoMods]

yea i don't think those owls are very similar, I'm just messing around and I thought that was pretty funny. also the sandy owl is also different from the illuminati owl.

Maybe they were learning about the letter 'O' that day. google "learning activities for the letter 'o' kindergarten" and you will see a lot of owls

[TbTalon94]

I just mean in a conspirators view, the owl raises an eyebrow. It's a known symbol and it was just weird that the picture (out of many) they chose to give to the president (who i'm sure is in the society) is a freaking owl.

The things that stand out are these:

-Top swirly thing...it has 5 spokes and if you draw a star using each point as the point of a star, it's a pentagram. Which also means devil or satin or whatever....but you still have to draw the star
-Middle thing has 6 dots, bottom swirl as 6 points. So in a line technically 6,6,6.. Again, and i said this myself, anyone can just put random shit together to equal something like that
-Right wing, it has 13 dots. Left wing has no dots. 13 is a significant number to them. That one jumps out as obvious...why isn't the other wing dotted. Maybe she didn't finish it or something who knows
-The little leaf/flower things by the owls feet. First off...the hell are they? 2nd, one is spiked and one is round. It's like the Eagle holding the arrows and the olive branch. Subtle symbolism
-The damn heart in the center of the chest. it's like fucking perfect. She can't draw a straight line for shit and then all of a sudden draws a heart perfect? Maybe it was a stencil...but i mean come on

Anyway, with everything that's out there anyone can put together stuff that looks weird and doesn't fit. If you look hard enough there's always something to find or comment on or wonder about. There are definitly things that don't add up or seam fishy in this whole thing...and in pretty much everything the government does.

[sparkles]

naaa just because there is 365 days in a year doesn't mean you will get a repeated birthday 100%
Explain Mr. Wizard

[AutoMods]

Explain Mr. Wizard

The probability of matching a specific birthday , say july 4th, in a room full of people can never be 100%. It can reach 99.99999% but never 100% . Although the probability is low, you could have 10,000 people in a room with no july 4th birthday.

but this is a different question then the original so i said batwood was right

[DustinsDuster]

the assault rifle being in the trunk still is very interesting; i hadn't ever heard that.

[AutoMods]

Pete Williams, NBC News Justice Correspondent, introduced by Matt Lauer, airing on December 15, 2012:
There is some new information this morning from a couple of Federal officials and State officials. They say now that there were actually four handguns recovered inside the school, not just two as we were initially told. Four handguns and apparently only handguns that were taken into the school…


The DAY AFTER the shooting NBC passed on information that no assault rifle was used inside. one day later it was corrected. if they were trying to keep a secret or work with the government , what good does a 1 day lie/cover up do ? i think they just passed on bad info, perhaps originating from the medical examiner . if they were trying to withhold information why would they even show the rifle being pulled out of the car? how can they mastermind a conspiracy plot with the government but fail to censor the rifle coming out of the trunk???



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaQwpqnnhm4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaQwpqnnhm4

the people behind these conspiracies have no reputation , nothing to loose and none of their own research but just criticize other peoples footage. if they are going to create a video they need to buy a plane ticket and fly down to Connecticut and do their own interviews instead of assembling clips on youtube.

the biggest conspiracy dvd ever made is Loose Change about 911. started by an 18 year old on his laptop from home, dylan avery . people will doubt the mass media and the government, police, public workers but will listen to this guy on youtube ???

Dylan Avery
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i203/hrgotsch06/loose_change_author.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hFS_MoHWwE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hFS_MoHWwE

[AutoMods]

the 3 masterminds behind the 911 conspiracy video "loose change" . in one of their houses "researching". sorry, i'd trust just about anybody's word over these tools

http://importevolution.com/images/loose_change.jpg

[85XR7Project]

This whole thread is retarded.