302 Overheating Problem ... HELP!

[Batwood]

So... I have on my hands an overheating 1965 Ford Falcon.

It has a BRAND NEW 302 "for a 71 Mustang" in it.
Waterpump is "for a 65 Falcon"

Apparently it overheated before when driven. I got it and was told to swap fans... went from a 7 blade flex fan to a 4 blade steel fan.
It seems to have made the problem worse.

My thoughts:
Lower radiator hose sucking shut - replaced with spring-loaded flex hose
Adding water wetter to the anti-freeze... put in two bottles and lowered the glycol/water ratio a little
The timing cover isn't a reverse rotation or anything and as far as I know, the water pump shouldn't be either. Its a v belt set-up.
The radiator is brand new as well... not sure if its a 2 core or 3.
The fan is spinning the right way (sucking through the radiator/condensor

I tried playing with timing, but the timing marks on the motor were gone... so I had to make my own. It appeared to be more than 10* before top dead center... I set it at about 5* and it didn't seem to help.

Any ideas?
As it is now, it will slowly get warmer and warmer while idling. I usually shut it off at 220* or so. (brand new temp gauge).

I'm thinking he needs a 5-6 blade steel fan, but I can't imagine that alone causing these problems with brand new parts.

[snickerlicker]

Does it have a fan shroud?? Might need one.

[86svo9L]

Maybe an air pocket?

[85XR7Project]

You burp the water pump? Could be cavitating.

[Deimos]

belt route, fan blade orientation, shroud... Did you check the coolant basics?

[CiviC_boY]

It does have a Fan Shroud. And the coolant system was burped from what was told.

[sparkles]

Better get a....lower thermostat.

:haha:

[Deimos]

coolant basics as in is coolant flowing does the level raise with revving it, any bubbles in the coolant, does it pass a pressure check? Belt routing to make sure its spinning the right way.

[Batwood]

Level raises when revving it, yes.
I'm told it has a new 180* t-stat in...

Fan spins the right way, so the waterpump spins the right way.

[bizzle]

it could be running too lean that will heat it right up and there is nothing you would be able to do to cool it down

[bizzle]

also check to see if the core on the radiator is the full width of the tanks on the top and bottom. that its the full thickness i guess. if not you may have the inline six radiator and that could be your problem. i am not for positive on this but a first gen mustang is basically a rebodied falcon and i was told when doing my swap that it wouldn't keep my 302 cool. not sure if it makes that much of a difference because its only one more row on the radiator, but if its not running lean and your still having that issue than i would check that out.

[Batwood]

The radiator seems to be the thickness of the tanks all the way across. Its brand new, just like everything else.

I put the old 7 blade "flex fan" back on it and it actually runs cooler.
10 minutes idling in the super hot sun it was 194*
15 minutes 202*
20 minutes 210*
Then I started putting around in it really easy
25 minutes 215*
30 minutes 222*
35 minutes 228*

It just steadily gets hotter. It seems like when I adjusted the jets on the carb out (richer) it actually got hotter, faster. So I turned them both in 1/2 turn from where they were.
I set spark timing back to where it was when I started. Too many things were being changed at once. It appears to be like 15-20* retarded. I set it about 8* and it idled like it was under load.

[86svo9L]

Do you know what kind of Harmonic balancer it is and if it is matched to the pointer? Ford had several different variances, and quite a few of the stock ones were known to slip making it impossible to time properly.

[snickerlicker]

Somebody installed the head gaskets backwards. It happens all the time, and will cause that problem.

[86svo9L]

That would be embarrassing. All of the head gaskets I have seen have been clearly labeled which end goes where. That would make sense though, without the front being blocked off to force coolant to the back the engine would start to get very hot.

[snickerlicker]

That would be embarrassing. All of the head gaskets I have seen have been clearly labeled which end goes where. That would make sense though, without the front being blocked off to force coolant to the back the engine would start to get very hot.

Yep, that's why the are now clearly labeled like you stated, because of all the people installing them wrong.

[Batwood]

Do you know what kind of Harmonic balancer it is and if it is matched to the pointer? Ford had several different variances, and quite a few of the stock ones were known to slip making it impossible to time properly.

I do not know about the balancer... but I do know the original marks are covered up by the waterpump. I marked it in a different spot myself.


Somebody installed the head gaskets backwards. It happens all the time, and will cause that problem.
It was bought as a brand new longblock. I've actually read about people doing that. I was told to check the front corner of the heads to make sure you can see the edge of the gasket, which you can.

[86svo9L]

Damn, sounds like a doozy. Best guess is to try and figure out that timing situation. Maybe borrow a harmonic balancer and pointer off a junkyard car and see if you can time it that way.

[AutoMods]

my ls1 swap has the radiator cap on top of the radiator and it is a tad lower than it should be and air bubbles get trapped during a full cooling system drain and refill.

Ideally the cap or refill location is at the highest point in the cooling track. Takes a while to get the bubbles out of my system and it will overheat until they are all out. I jack the front of the car up so the rad cap is at the highest point and cycle the temps a few times, sqeeze the hoses etc to try to push any air out.

[slow ride]

You mean the cooling holes need to line up in the block and heads :) Crazyness.


Yep, that's why the are now clearly labeled like you stated, because of all the people installing them wrong.

[Scott]

It is possible to install a reverse rotation pump using the same front cover, pulleys and fan fyi. and If your head gaskets are on backwards the flow to the rear of the cylinder head coming from the block will NOT be there, so if the rear of the head is extremely hot while the front of the head is cooler that could be the problem. Assuming you have a IR temp gun to check it.

[BGjohnson]

It is possible to install a reverse rotation pump using the same front cover, pulleys and fan fyi. and If your head gaskets are on backwards the flow to the rear of the cylinder head coming from the block will NOT be there, so if the rear of the head is extremely hot while the front of the head is cooler that could be the problem. Assuming you have a IR temp gun to check it.


I would take a look at this. Make sure it has the correct rotation water pump on it. Don't assume anything.

I think with a V belt you need a standard rotation pump, serpentine belt setups need a reverse rotation. Pretty much explain exactly what is happening to you.

I had an engine with one headgasket backwards, it didn't overheat the engine, but did cause that head to run hot.

Try the simple stuff first ( sounds like you have )

Look at the water pump, make sure you have the correct rotation.

[Batwood]

I assumed the radiator was a 3 row and new.

Now they tell me it might be a 2 row AND that it was "new" with the old motor... which clogged it with rust and whatnot. It has been flushed and everything, but I'm wondering if its still partially clogged.
I'm going to see if I can get them to put in an aluminum 3 row radiator. The one in it is pretty narrow in my opinion. Its not even as wide as the motor itself. I haven't measured it.

I pulled the condenser and pulled the belt off the compressor and idled it. It slowly got warmer at idle still. But after 45 minutes in the sun it only got to 219*...

I'm betting on the radiator.

[85XR7Project]

I assumed the radiator was a 3 row and new.

Now they tell me it might be a 2 row AND that it was "new" with the old motor... which clogged it with rust and whatnot. It has been flushed and everything, but I'm wondering if its still partially clogged.
I'm going to see if I can get them to put in an aluminum 3 row radiator. The one in it is pretty narrow in my opinion. Its not even as wide as the motor itself. I haven't measured it.

I pulled the condenser and pulled the belt off the compressor and idled it. It slowly got warmer at idle still. But after 45 minutes in the sun it only got to 219*...

I'm betting on the radiator. Its pissing me off that the installer of the whole works abandoned ship.

And you're sure it's a V8 radiator? I don't think the I6 radiators can keep a V8 cool.

[Batwood]

And you're sure it's a V8 radiator? I don't think the I6 radiators can keep a V8 cool.

Its a 21" tall, 19.5" wide, 2.25" thick 2 core copper (?brass) radiator.
I just bought a 3 core aluminum one of the same size.
Any wider and the radiator will be bigger than the opening in the front of the engine bay. I'm not sure of the sizing on an I6 one, but I was told this was for the V8.

I'm also putting an external trans cooler on, just to get that out of the equation.

[Batwood]

Of course, the 3 row is out of stock. I guess I'm getting a 2 row aluminum now.
They say the tubes are 1" vs. the 3/4" in a 3 row. I'm told the cooling capacity is very similar.

If this doesn't work, I'm putting a 3800 supercharged in it... at least I know how those things work.

[86svo9L]

Say screw it and go to the JY and get the front timing cover, water pump and accessories off of another 5.0 or something along those lines. You are guaranteed to have a matched set with easy to find replacement parts. Gets some of the guessing of what the previous guy did out of the equation.

[BGjohnson]

What radiator did you go with?

[Batwood]

What radiator did you go with?

Aluminum 2 row with 1" tubes. Off Ebay. :/

[BGjohnson]

If it's the same company I got mine from, it was actually really decent quality. Had a petcock, everything was tig welded with no epoxy. Has worked amazing in my SVO so far.

[86svo9L]

Lucky for us the 2.3 is a fairly cool running engine :)

[Batwood]

Update...
Installed the new aluminum 2 row radiator and a trans cooler.
With the condenser in and everything hooked up, it runs steady at 208* in this insanely hot weather.

If you stop at a light or something though, it jumps up about 5* in 30 seconds or so. I'm adding some water wetter and might see about turning the idle up. It seems to hold a steady temp when you rev it up a bit. Idling around 600rpm I believe.

The old radiator had a decent amount of shit in the tops of the tubes.
I guess I'll consider this challenge completed. Thank God.

[BGjohnson]

Good to hear it. Do you have a 180* T stat?

[Batwood]

Good to hear it. Do you have a 180* T stat?

Yes, 180* T-stat.

Its been driven around quite a bit now and wants to run around 190*. The other day when it was getting warm at idle, it was over 100* out, so I'm sure that had a lot to do with it.

I have an overdrive waterpump pulley coming in the mail. Now that it runs cool, I'm assuming this will help it idle cool as well.

[Batwood]

Here's a picture of the beast...

763

[Scott]

thats awesome, build that instead of the cobra

[BGjohnson]

That thing looks gorgeous!

First car I ever drove was a 61 Ford Falcon. I'd love a little sprint..