First real world production ZL1 #'s

[snickerlicker]

Epic meltdown ensues:


2012 ZL1 Camaro with automatic transmission, baseline 1/4 mile dragstrip testing:

Run #1: 12.52 @ 116.3 mph with a 2.0 60 ft.

More runs to come along with pics and video. Stay tuned.

Yes, we do have a set of drag radials and will see what they will do after we get baselines on the stock tires.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216280

[Jappbox]

Horrible, I have no respect for the new Camaro's Yes they look kinda cool but way under powered and way to heavy, Twin turbo Hennessey ones were runing 12's at tx2k12. Ford Power for the win! LOL

[c_mart_28]

I saw one driving down University in West Des Moines today actually. Look pretty sweet rolling, regardless of how much faster a 2013 gt500 will be..

[Jappbox]

2013 viper FTW

[snickerlicker]

2013 zr1 ftw!!

[Jappbox]

:drive:

[Caleb]

Well from what I've been reading through that thread, they fucked up on the dyno numbers from the get go and had to correct it. Not only that, the dyno chart from hennesey had some flat spots around the 4500rpms mark so there was issues there (granted it was the dyno but if thats a reflection of how it was running at the track, makes sense). Well I guess only time will tell, running a brand new car with less than 200 miles on right at the track after purpose was a bad idea too, especially to document and post it online and say they weren't going all out with it or "full kill" mode as they put it. I bet this car will be a little better than what they are getting right now with more miles on the engine and better launching. People seem to forget this isn't a drag car either, its rather impressive on the track as far as nurburgring times go for being what it is.

[snickerlicker]

^ and the excuses begin....Thinking GM handed the magazines a ringer for the tests a few months back. Production ones don't seem near as impressive.

[snickerlicker]

The dyno discrepancy was from originally they said it dynoed 570 whp, when in reality it was the 470 figure, fat finger fuck up on the key board. Probably the reason the production ones sat at the factory due to a "quality hold", I'm guessing it was a detune flash for warranty reasons.

[Domestic Disturbance]

Sweet guesses anything else Dr Insider? I heard mustang guys broke in the plant and jizzed all over the place. Its quicker than a z06 around the N ring, what do you think its meant for? Derp

As honest as Hennessy has always been known to be, you think its a possibility they dogged it to make their finished product look more impressive?

[snickerlicker]

Is that the best excuse you got King Mullet??

[Caleb]

^ and the excuses begin....Thinking GM handed the magazines a ringer for the tests a few months back. Production ones don't seem near as impressive.

Its not excuses, it is what it is. They didn't put all that aerodynamic engineering in the car just for a straight line(although it looks like a brick). And they did typo the rwhp from the get go which got everyone all fucky about it which was also another big mistake causing mass confusion. If you see more videos coming out down the road of people running way better times stock, you know Hennessey fucked up. As I stated before, they shouldn't have posted their "poor/not all out results" so fast because of the criticism that will come with it without doing some in depth testing. I was just restating what they were saying on the site and just following up. But 12.5 @ 116? I've done 12.5 @ 109 w/1.79 60ft. in my n/a shit box with way less horsepower/less weight, I know its a pig but it just doesn't seem right with the numbers. If roughly 125rwhp+ and 600lbs makes the same ET's as my car at its fastest, than I have under estimated the weight factor.

[Caleb]

And I'm not here for a pissing contest, just going off what I've been reading. I'm kind of in agreeance with everyone else at the moment, this is only one test. Only time will tell.

[85XR7Project]

Pretty sure the '13 GT500 will walk it in the twisties as well. You can put track shoes on a fat kid, but it isn't going to improve much. I don't care how much they talk up the ZL1 its still an overweight brick on wheels.

[snickerlicker]

Trap speed is HP, which is why the ZL1 traps 7 mph higher then yours and weighs more too. It went 12.1@116 on better tires with a 60ft more like yours.... Apples to oranges..

[Caleb]

I can admit before anyone else, ford is doing it right with the power to weight ratio on the cars. GM...not so much on the camaro.

[Domestic Disturbance]

Not at all Vanilla Ice. I'm more anxious to see a head to head comparison vs the 650hp gt500. The stang should have it in a straight line all day, but I'd love to see how much that car will struggle to put down its power in the curves. Solid axle 650hp vs IRS 580hp, whos gonna have more grip?

[85XR7Project]

Jesus I knew someone was gonna drop the SRA bullshit. So you're telling me that because the ZL1 has an IRS it will be able to corner better because why? Yeah an IRS helps but being severely overweight isn't going to help. That goes back to my fat kid track shoes comment. The Boss 302 handles quite well for an SRA car and all the mags praised Ford for their suspension tuning and if you read as many cars mags as I do that's the first thing they usually bitch about when the Mustang comes up (SRA vs IRS). For one power to weight ratio is better on the GT500 vs the ZL1, that is a fact that we can all agree about. I wanna see some real numbers on these things side by side.

[Jappbox]

here's the problem, the ZL1 Weighs get this... More than 2 Tons!! 4120lbs to be exact. WTF! s Fat ass GTR weighs 3800lbs and those are known as pigs! the only person buying a ZL1 will be someone that falls for the name and the "superchaged" title. You will see these cars geting smoked by Hondas for god sake. Starting at 55k? wow be joke there. If you looking for something to go around a track fast why not buy a ACR or a 09 GTR for 55k. Noone really thinks a 4100lb car is fast around a road course right? I like GM and all but they kinda screwed them self by making a under powered elephant. It needs the 580hp to move out of its own way.

[snickerlicker]

Not at all Vanilla Ice. I'm more anxious to see a head to head comparison vs the 650hp gt500. The stang should have it in a straight line all day, but I'd love to see how much that car will struggle to put down its power in the curves. Solid axle 650hp vs IRS 580hp, whos gonna have more grip?

Sounds just like the mid 80's IROC-Z owners excuse when they found out their car was butt slow.... But it sure does handle good!!!! Lame. lol!!

[Domestic Disturbance]

Jesus I knew someone was gonna drop the SRA bullshit. So you're telling me that because the ZL1 has an IRS it will be able to corner better because why? Yeah an IRS helps but being severely overweight isn't going to help. That goes back to my fat kid track shoes comment. The Boss 302 handles quite well for an SRA car and all the mags praised Ford for their suspension tuning and if you read as many cars mags as I do that's the first thing they usually bitch about when the Mustang comes up (SRA vs IRS). For one power to weight ratio is better on the GT500 vs the ZL1, that is a fact that we can all agree about. I wanna see some real numbers on these things side by side.

Ya, and the gt500 makes 200hp more. My point is you can put more power down through a corner with IRS than SRA. I know they've got those SRA cars to handle great, but at some point its going to spin out if you blip the throttle.


Sounds just like the mid 80's IROC-Z owners excuse when they found out their car was butt slow.... But it sure does handle good!!!! Lame. lol!!

Ya well no one has COPO's yet so I gotta back the road course shit ass.

[Domestic Disturbance]

Numbers don't lie. I'm sure its a handful, but look at the crowd of vehicles surrounding the ZL1 times. Its no slouch. 7.41.27. Thats not on an R compound tire either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N%C3%BCrburgring_Nordschleife_lap_times#Ti ming_by_manufacturers

[Jappbox]

Wonder if they took all the seats out for the test to drop 200+ lbs.? Seems there needs to be a video of it. What production car is #1? ooo yea a viper. LOL The ACRX went 7.03 Insane.

[Caleb]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWFP6LM-_q8

[Caleb]

@ 6:43 he hits the grass a little bit and he starts to slide but maintains control. I know what that feels like on GT5 and its not cool lol.

[snickerlicker]

Numbers don't lie. I'm sure its a handful, but look at the crowd of vehicles surrounding the ZL1 times. Its no slouch. 7.41.27. Thats not on an R compound tire either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N%C3%BCrburgring_Nordschleife_lap_times#Ti ming_by_manufacturers

That was a pre-production ZL1. Hell Hennessey complained of blower heat soak during 1/4 mile runs, if they heat soak that quick no way it runs that time on the N ring with production cooling set-up!! BS Flag on that time...

[Caleb]

That was a pre-production ZL1. Hell Hennessey complained of blower heat soak during 1/4 mile runs, if they heat soak that quick no way it runs that time on the N ring with production cooling set-up!! BS Flag on that time...

I still don't think you guys get it, someone runs a brand new production car off of the lot at a drag strip and you're basing it all off of 1 very small collective observation from one company? They showed a dyno graph with issues and then thats it, thats all the best it can do, its a piece of shit for the money? The nerve of you guys jumping straight to conclusions. I for one am not nut hugging this car, but if anyone takes hennesseys single independent test as the end of it, you're fucking retarded. I can't stress that enough. Just reading all the bullshit people post on that camaro5 forum about that test and take it like its gospel. Its ridiculous and its going to ridiculous lengths. I'm sure scientists do their observations once and publish peer reviewed articles about what they are testing and going over.

The facts I've seen about the car, the suspension was tuned for road and track in mind for handling and a comfortable ride. The launch control was 1/4 track tested to tweak and improve the launch control system keeping the 1/4 guy's in mind. And its got plenty of power for being a pig of a car. Again, I think we should wait and see what this car is capable of on a large scale, not just one test. I think that is the entire point of what you're missing out of, more than a single source.

[Caleb]

YEAH IM AN ASSHOLE, COME AT ME BRO...come at me.

[sparkles]

Your arguing with Mustang nutswingers. Of coarse they're gonna dog on it.

[snickerlicker]

As opposed to F-Body nutswingers for which none of you guys are, correct??? If you guys can't figure out the difference between pre-production and production cars you are the one that is fucking retarded.... Come at me BRAH!!! lol...

[bizzle]

whatever the numbers are it doesnt really matter ... chevy guys with more money than brains are going to buy the camaro. ford guys with more money than brains are going to buy the gt500. the heat soak issues are prolly a bunch of bs. its the same blower as the zr1, ctsv, and the gt500. actually the same set up as the ctsv and i havent heard any problems about that. i say that as a ford guy.
i think all the new cars are way too big and heavy. i happened to have a 2011 camaro in my driveway last week and it was over 6in wider, only a foot shorter in length, and maybe a foot and a half shorter in hight than my effing 95 yukon. i have parked my mustang next to the very same car and it was comical the size difference. The thing looked like a toy next to the camaro. same thing with the new mustangs my car looks like a 3/4scale model of the new one... only with shitty paint

[snickerlicker]

Actually the blower is a 1.9 TVS, the ZR1 and the new 2013 GT500 utilize the 2.3. I agree the Camaro's are fucking huge!!

[Jappbox]

What i dont get about these videos for the N-ring is you notice I can see the factory dash, nothing else. and no walk around. Funny how that works. why not show the car has the factory installed seats and gear? nope because it dont. It has 1 Race seat and a dash. then after they install everything back to factory spec and brag about the N-Ring time. Not saying Dodge or othes havent done the same its just BS to me. it for "saftey" reasons. LOL

And why was the hood poped? its a factory car????

I didnt even Pop my hood at the drag strip ALL DAY.

Maybe they had some Dry Ice installed? LOL

[85XR7Project]

Its been said cars tuned for the Nurburgring Nordshlef ride like shit. No road anyone will ever travel on/ race on will be ANYTHING like the Nurburgring, that course is just plain nuts. I just cannot believe someone can dog on the Mustang for having SRA and not even mention the massive weight problem of the Camaro in the same paragraph. I'd go so far to say as I want to see a Boss 302 which is tuned for "road and track" run the same track as a ZL1 witch also is tuned this way apparently, Id be willing to bet the Boss would give that fat ass ZL1 a run for its money even WITH a SRA. That Camaro in general just pisses me off, come on GM get with the program here heavy = slow. They need to take one look at the Dodge Challenger and steer clear of the weight

[Caleb]

Its been said cars tuned for the Nurburgring Nordshlef ride like shit. No road anyone will ever travel on/ race on will be ANYTHING like the Nurburgring, that course is just plain nuts. I just cannot believe someone can dog on the Mustang for having SRA and not even mention the massive weight problem of the Camaro in the same paragraph. I'd go so far to say as I want to see a Boss 302 which is tuned for "road and track" run the same track as a ZL1 witch also is tuned this way apparently, Id be willing to bet the Boss would give that fat ass ZL1 a run for its money even WITH a SRA. That Camaro in general just pisses me off, come on GM get with the program here heavy = slow. They need to take one look at the Dodge Challenger and steer clear of the weight

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OE4AH4DZtEI ?

And yes its a run for its money, however the mustang would fall behind 2 seconds per lap according to that video.

[snickerlicker]

After 1 lap the ZL1 would be heat soaked like a mofo,would just get slower and slower.....

[AutoMods]

From the little I've read, solid rears really competitive with smooth courses and irs has advantages on bumpy or uneven surfaces/tracks. sra's are easier for the average guy to tweak/tune/setup correctly at the track and less drivetrain loss .

[StreetSweeper]

Ford has thier shit together hands down. It takes a GM getting into propper hands to move out and Dodges.. Well there just plain out slow!

[Domestic Disturbance]

Its been said cars tuned for the Nurburgring Nordshlef ride like shit. No road anyone will ever travel on/ race on will be ANYTHING like the Nurburgring, that course is just plain nuts. I just cannot believe someone can dog on the Mustang for having SRA and not even mention the massive weight problem of the Camaro in the same paragraph. I'd go so far to say as I want to see a Boss 302 which is tuned for "road and track" run the same track as a ZL1 witch also is tuned this way apparently, Id be willing to bet the Boss would give that fat ass ZL1 a run for its money even WITH a SRA. That Camaro in general just pisses me off, come on GM get with the program here heavy = slow. They need to take one look at the Dodge Challenger and steer clear of the weight

I'm not disputing that fact at all. Though both clearly have downsides. Also I believe most the complaining for N Ring suspension tuned cars comes form cars with a static suspension setup. When you can adjust the dampening through the computers presets there should be no issue. 100% of reviews of the ZR1 vette said it's ride was better than the Z06's, same deal here. Not sure is being pissed off about the weight is the best way to handle it. Its just a victim of the times. They used a shared chassis with 'modernized' suspension, met upcoming required laws with every airbag known to man. 4th gens aren't the lightest car either, and they don't come with shit. People were complaining 6 years ago ~3600 was just too much weight. They come with a lot more shit now. I'm happy its not a stang carbon copy though. You can thank the 5th gen for the new 5.0, and zl1 for the new gt500, and yes you can thank mustangs for camaros existing at all.

[Domestic Disturbance]

What i dont get about these videos for the N-ring is you notice I can see the factory dash, nothing else. and no walk around. Funny how that works. why not show the car has the factory installed seats and gear? nope because it dont. It has 1 Race seat and a dash. then after they install everything back to factory spec and brag about the N-Ring time. Not saying Dodge or othes havent done the same its just BS to me. it for "saftey" reasons. LOL

And why was the hood poped? its a factory car????

I didnt even Pop my hood at the drag strip ALL DAY.

Maybe they had some Dry Ice installed? LOL

Calm down inspector. There has to be a certain line where you would imagine people would start questioning whats going on. For some reason believing its a gutted car with just a dash and wheel seems highly unlikely. I think its funny you mentioned the ACR though, which is a gutted viper with r compound tires and a monster wing, and then dodge hired a driver to put it around the track.

[85XR7Project]

You can thank the 5th gen for the new 5.0, and zl1 for the new gt500

How do you figure? I'm just curious here

[snickerlicker]

^ apparently he forgot the GT500 came out in 2007 when the 5th Gen Camaro was still mocked up in clay in the design center....

[85XR7Project]

That was my thought. I'm sure it'll end up being "without the ZL1 there would be no 650hp GT500! You're welcome!"

[Domestic Disturbance]

That was my thought. I'm sure it'll end up being "without the ZL1 there would be no 650hp GT500! You're welcome!"

This. Without a standard to be broken why go further. Want an example? 3v gt's. No competition. No need to improve. It goes hand in hand. GT500 filled a market ford never had. The not quite GT or Vette niche but better than a regular stang. I dont see what all the smug responses are about. I'm not being smug about liking chevy's. I just think its silly hearing these 'pre production' 'gutted' speculations. How bout the 99 Cobra? Its a perfect example of that.

[snickerlicker]

You gotta be smug to Chevy lovers, it's the only way you can get it through their thick skull. P.S. my 2001 Blazer owns all!

[85XR7Project]

You make it sound like the design the car in three days like, "Hey guys, sounds like Chevrogay came out with a 570hp Camaro. Let's make a 650hp GT500 tomorrow just because we can."

Yep you're right, without the almighty ZL1, Ford wouldn't have something to laugh at.

[Domestic Disturbance]

I think thats how you are interpreting it, but I don't think its an overnight affair. I think you guys just feed negatively off of hype. Its not the game changer of the century.

Do you realize you are reacting defensively on the side of the antagonist which began with a very narrow and conclusive opinion to begin with?

[85XR7Project]

I just think the hype behind the ZL1 is silly.

[snickerlicker]

^ agreed

[snickerlicker]

I think thats how you are interpreting it, but I don't think its an overnight affair. I think you guys just feed negatively off of hype. Its not the game changer of the century.

Do you realize you are reacting defensively on the side of the antagonist which began with a very narrow and conclusive opinion to begin with?


Spoken like a true f-body fan boiiiii!

[Domestic Disturbance]

Spoken like a true f-body fan boiiiii!

you must be bored lol

[LT1Dan]

you must be bored lol

He's just mad his neighbors LT1 is faster than his Rustang!

[snickerlicker]

He's just mad his neighbors LT1 is faster than his Rustang!

Nah, his LT1 is like all the others, it doesn't run!!! lol

[snickerlicker]

you must be bored lol

True!!

[slow ride]

Did he check the optispark


Nah, his LT1 is like all the others, it doesn't run!!! lol

[snickerlicker]

Brand new. It runs, but backfires out the intake....

[LT1Dan]

Brand new. It runs, but backfires out the intake....

He still hasn't gotten that thing sorted out?

[snickerlicker]

3 kids, no time to work on it.... That and it's kind of butchered up too!

[LT1Dan]

3 kids, no time to work on it.... That and it's kind of butchered up too!

Ah, I see. I guess if he drove a Mustang he wouldn't have that problem, because he wouldn't be able to get his boyfriend pregnant.

[snickerlicker]

How dare you say that to a fellow LT1 owner. You guys need to band together, can't you all get along???!!!

[85XR7Project]

Ah, I see. I guess if he drove a Mustang he wouldn't have that problem, because he wouldn't be able to get his boyfriend pregnant.

The LT1 guy should be alright. I hear they prefer barn animals anyway.

[sparkles]

The LT1 guy should be alright. I hear they prefer barn animals anyway.

Lol, what are you driving again?

[oVa-Boost]

Lol, what are you driving again?

Not no shit stang! lol jk i rather have a TT vette c5 c6 than this zl1 camaro

[85XR7Project]

Lol struck a nerve did I?

[snickerlicker]

Those F-Body nutswingers are a little sensitive....Must be from the mullet juice!

[sparkles]

I just chuckled, envisioning you going on a rant about the ZL1 while your cruising in your Chrysler.

[snickerlicker]

No Chrysler here, just a 2001 Blazer 4 Door, you want to get a lane with it in your Cruze???

[85XR7Project]

I just chuckled, envisioning you going on a rant about the ZL1 while your cruising in your Chrysler.

No one even knows what I've built in my past. Mostly Fords my friend. I have a decent enough history.

[LT1Dan]

The LT1 guy should be alright. I hear they prefer barn animals anyway.

I don't think my girlfriend would appreciate that comment! I'd be afraid to see what kind of "women" a PT Bruiser pulls in.

Remember, "baaaah" means "No"!

[85XR7Project]

Velcro gloves means they can't get away.

[90blkbrd]

I want a 2013 GT500 as I HATE the Camaro and I'm more of a GM fan than a Ford. That said the Nurburgring times for the ZL-1 are correct, I know someone on the development team. (Not drivetrain but interior things such as the stereo)

IMO unless Ford pays GM to use the magnetic shocks the GT500 will not be able to compete with the Camaro on the track.

The Camaro backed up it's track times soon after the latest "lightning laps" were done. The ZL-1 didn't qualify to be at this years event and the time inserted below is from Chevrolet. It is my understanding it WASN'T on cup tires.

Some lap times from Car & Driver's "Lightning Lap"

1 2:45.9 MOSLER MT900S LL3 11/08
2 2:48.6 DODGE VIPER SRT10 ACR LL3 11/08
3 2:49.8 MOSLER PHOTON LL5 2/11
4 2:50.7 CHEVROLET CORVETTE ZR1 (Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires) LL3 2/12
5 2:51.8 CHEVROLET CORVETTE ZR1 (Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tires) LL3 2/10
6 2:51.8 LAMBORGHINI GALLARDO LP570-4 SUPERLEGGERA LL5 2/11
7 2:52.3 KTM X-BOW LLU 2/10
2:52.38 2012 Camaro ZL1
8 2:53.2 NISSAN GT-R LL3 2/12
9 2:53.5 CHEVROLET CORVETTE Z06 (Z07) LL3 2/11
10 2:53.9 LAMBORGHINI MURCIÉLAGO LP670-4 SV LL5 2/10
11 2:54.6 FERRARI 430 SCUDERIA LL5 11/08
12 2:55.6 NISSAN GT-R LL3 11/08
13 2:55.9 PORSCHE 911 GT3 RS LL4 2/11
14 2:57.4 DODGE VIPER SRT10 LL3 10/07
15 2:57.5 PORSCHE 911 TURBO S LL4 2/11
16 2:57.6 ARIEL ATOM 3 LLU 2/10
17 2:58.0 MERCEDES-BENZ SLS AMG LL4 2/11
18 2:58.2 CHEVROLET CORVETTE Z06 LL3 8/07
19 2:58.5 CHEVROLET CORVETTE GRAND SPORT LL2 2/10
20 2:59.0 NISSAN GT-R (all-season tires) LL3 11/08

[snickerlicker]

Impressive times if true, but that's a Chevrolet driver turning that, not the C&D writers, correct??

[90blkbrd]

I believe it is chevrolet driver

[sparkles]

No Chrysler here, just a 2001 Blazer 4 Door, you want to get a lane with it in your Cruze???
Was talking to 85XR7, but sure! Hell, I'll even let the wife drive it.

No one even knows what I've built in my past. Mostly Fords my friend. I have a decent enough history.
Just giving you shit man.

[snickerlicker]

Finally made it into the 10's, took ported heads and cam to do it:

From LPE:

We are back at Muncie Dragway again today, this time with our yellow ZL1.

Fourth run of the day on a new car and we made it into the 10's.

10.79 seconds at 134.95 mph

I will post more info as the day goes on.

I will post a complete vehicle modifications list later as well. Basically the same as the red car plus some additional modifications (OD damper, CNC ported heads, LPE GT9 camshaft, low restriction race filter).

[85XR7Project]

*yawn* the car still bores me.

[GMPARTSMAN]

if anyone cares to see a zl-1,we have a sold one that hasnt been picked up yet at chevyland