What's next?

[c_mart_28]

So, a bit of good news- I'll be paying off my Cobra this week.

I can't really explain the sense of relief that provides. Paying $400+ a month payment (plus whatever modifications I chose to buy..) on a car that sees maybe 2-3k miles per year was really bothering my concience. Fortunately, we never got to the point financially where a decision had to be made because the car would have been the very first thing to go.

Now, it's tax time, bonus time at my work and I have a little "car fund" savings that I can invest.

So, now that my proEFI is basically finalized (less a final tune..) I have literally unlimited options as far as power adders and versatility for making more power, safely. I'm just looking for opinions from those more experienced.

Options:
1) Nitrous. ProEFI can control 4 stages of nitrous. Cheap. Easy. Biggest bang for my buck. Would likely put me into the 775 hp/850 tq range and well into the 9's (as long as my clutch/T56 holds up.) Could just run a small (25-50 shot) to cool the super hot IAT's that my tiny Whipple creates, and I could still dial it up at the track (150-200) to run a number.

2) Bigger blower (3.4 whipple, 3.3 lynsholm, etc..) Same story here- 9's, 750-800 rwhp. Stock longblocks have proven to be able to handle bigger boost for long periods of time from these blowers. Again, 9's pretty easily provided drivetrain holds up.

3) Th400/other auto swap. Cheaters way into the 9's :) But will do so consistantly and fairly cheaply. Will provide a solid platform for years down the road when I combine it with more power.

4) Turbo(s) This path would mean continued saving up until at least next year. Kit's typically run ~$5-6k. Problem here is that a turbo Cobra combined with the t56 is a super hard car to pilot into decent ET's.

5) Built stroker motor. Another 'next year or two' type plan. I know my stock longblock won't last forever. Thing is, it may very well last another 5 years. Especially considering all the fault monitoring proEFI offers. The car will need one eventually though. A solidly built 5.0+ liter 4v will be in the $5k range also.

6) Other? (not lsx swap, dorks..) The new 5.8 gt500 has piqued my interest as a possible big inch option in the future. Or, I could just drop some coin on a few little things like wheels and tires, better stereo, etc..


Long story short. It's winter. Aid my limited creative and knowledge-based thinking.

(And FYI, that last video I posted was the car just baaaarely running on proEFI. No cams yet for this cowpoke..)

[AutoMods]

option 1 adds more complexity to your setup.

I like option 2, not sure how much they cost but a bigger blower sounds like a quick install. turbo kits are expensive unless you do it yourself and that takes a long time. plus you better sell your current blower before it dies on you, sounds like you have it maxed out. plus the bigger blower is going to lower your iat's.

[Drifte]

^ what I was going to say. Nitrous may cause more reliability issues than it will help with lowering IAT. Do you have a meth injection kit?

[black88gt]

Meth and a bigger blower or an auto

Can always throw some nitrous in w/ the auto too ;)

[c_mart_28]

No I don't have a methanol kit as of yet, feeling a bit repetative saying this, but proEFI has a nice methanol injection controlling setup also. So that's an option. I do also run E85 which is something to factor in. I know Ryan runs meth in conjunction with E85 but everyone knows he's crazy.

As far as cost goes. My Whipple probably has a resale value of around ~$18-2000. The Lynsholm recently was on sale for as low as $3k (sale looks to be over, unfortunately.) The Whipple is more like $4500, or around $3-3500 used.

I like this idea also, but have always invisioned myself going the turbo route when upgrading power adders. Not to mention that the 3.4 whipples are notorious for being hard on the lower crank pulley/bearings. Especially when paired with a lower crank pulley that does not have crank support. Odds are though that I'd be able to put my lower support cage back on with just the stock lower pulley as the 3.4's don't need to be pullied up so much to create the ~25 lbs of boost I'd want to run.

[Deimos]

Th400 with griner brake would be best for your huge power adders.

[TbTalon94]

I'd say turbo, but i'm bias. Where's that turbo cobra guy at when we need him?

[c_mart_28]

I don't know if I can get myself to go automatic just yet, honestly.

At this point, I convice myself that my spool'd SRA-equipped, roll cage with swingouts car is just a street car that has the important bits to pass tech. Going auto, unless it were to something that offers overdrive, takes away a few of my points of what defines a street car (in MY opinion.)

[AutoMods]

I'd say turbo but you may lose some of your launching ability. your pro-efi have some anti-lag and/or stutter launching ? if you can buy a turbo kit minus the turbos and wastegate bov and injectors I can hook you up with pricing. don't have doorbuster supercharger connections though.

[sparkles]

Don't get rid of the T56. You have a legitimate "street car" that's fun to drive. Switching to auto would be boring with as much street use as your car gets.

If it were me, I'd let whatever breaks first be what you replace. I think Ryan's right as far as your current blower being at the end of it's life. I'd step it up to a 3.4. Turbo would be up to you. I'd get Vito's opinion on it beings how he's done just about everything you could think of to those cars. Turbo just seems like a lot more expensive setup for those cars.

Is a centrifugal out of the discussion?

Meth is a no brainer. It's cheap and would help your IAT issues and probably a good idea whichever way you go.

As far as your longblock, that's more money than I'd want to spend replacing something that isn't broken. Break it first, then upgrade it. Does upgrading to a stroker motor give big gains on those setups?

[c_mart_28]

Ryan- Yes, the ems has all sorts of aids to help with launching a turbo car:
5 stages of boost control based upon vehicle speed, time, or flex fuel input.
Anti-lag boost control with 5 different target boost levels.
Two-step launch control with 5 different target rpm's.

Ben- Thanks for the input. I've talked about it with Vito several times but nothing real serious.
Centrifual is not out of the question but with the work being done going that route, might as well just do the manifolds and turbo the thing. (That is in my opinion..)

Meth injection might be what wins out here..I haven't really looked much into it but in my position it could really only help.

[AutoMods]

option 5: built stroker motor won't really help you unless your upgrading blower also. so you have to dump money in two places there

[c_mart_28]

Very true..but it's a foundation. Honestly, it was my last option but i just wanted to put it out there.

What will likely happen is that I will use this spring/summer/fall to get all the features of the ems dialed in to where I am comfortable with them. Save my shillings to do something more elaborate next winter. Besides, who knows what will happen in time. Maybe my hand will get forced one way or the other like Sparkles had mentioned.

[sparkles]

Doesn't Phish have a meth kit for sale?

[MurderedSnake]

I would keep the T56 and put a 3.4 whipple or a YSI on it. Autos are gay.

[stangvortech]

Well, you are on e85 so I would build the short block!(9.5.1 with a stroker and a teksid) Then get a bigger blower or add spray. no turbos unless you go auto. imo

[JustaGT]

Keep the T56 in it for sure, I think that you would get bored with the auto, I know I would on the street. I've seen a few 3.4L guys around on stock motor but not a whole lot. Seems like a bit overkill for the stock 4.6L IMO. If I wanted to go 3.4L I would probably have to go with a 5.4L navigator swap or similar. Not saying it wouldnt be awesome because it definitely would on the stock power plant, I've just heard mixed emotions on that big of a twin screw on a 4.6L motor from a few people that are running that. Have you thought about either a 2,8 or 2.9 whipple/Kenne bell?? Either way whatever you do I'm sure is going to be sick Casey!

[AutoMods]

he wins the 2010 manual shootout and is all about manuals. in 2011 he loses and is ready to swap to an auto.

[allgo]

A YSI on it would be a bad MOFO..from a roll it would be nasty...auto for the best performance though..

[FiFdYnUtZ]

Auto all the way....someday you all will come around..

[Domestic Disturbance]

The fact its a stick car with SRA makes is perfect IMO. Its a straight line car, but still not 100% et queen. I say spray and CCW's.

[sparkles]

I'd say protect it by getting a new panel in your house so it doesn't burn down with your Cobra in it.

[c_mart_28]

Lol.

Bah, thing has been good for 60 years, what's another 20-30?

[sparkles]

It's been replaced at some point. The one you have is about 30 years old.

[c_mart_28]

So..I just got payment today for my Whipple 2.3.

That kinda happened quickly. Have some shopping to do..

[sparkles]

Oh snap! Ryan just pee'd a little.

[AutoMods]

ohh shit

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.urlesque.com/media/2010/08/soakingwet4life---3.jpg

[BGjohnson]

So meth and a 3.4?

I was going to weigh in, but it looks like you've chosen already!

[c_mart_28]

My wallet has suffered a devastating blow and my wife is super pissed at me.

I blame all you yahoos.

[Jappbox]

What did you buy at the supermarket?

[AutoMods]

we need pics or links, or are you going secret mode ?

[LT1Dan]

Sounds juicy! We demand details!

[AutoMods]

just tell your wife you sold your old one and just had to pay $100 extra to get the new one

[c_mart_28]

Ha, the wife is a financial czar and is truely she is the only reason why it was in any way possible for me to buy the thing! That said, because of her grip on our fiances, buying this wasn't exactly an "approved" transaction.

But, what I ended up buying was this: http://www.lysholm.us/cobra_03-04.php

It's a Vortech branded unit but it's a Lysholm technology. (Pronounced Lie-shh-om I think..)

From what how it has been explained to me, it's nearly identical to the 3.4 Whipple with their "crusher" inlet. As I understand it, Whipple used to source their rotors from Lysholm and then Vortech essentially bought the patent from Whipple.


I plan on running it in the ~23 psi range pretty much all the time. Should have zero trouble with that and generate a fraction of the heat that my old 2.3 would make. If I get my 9.99 time slip that I'm looking for I may hang up my track driving shoes for a while because this purchase basically wiped out any fundage I might have to fix something if it were to break..

Nice thing is that this blower could potentially make upper 20's psi with no issue if I were to ever get up the nerve.

For the time being, I'll just shoot for 750 rwhp all the time in almost any weather. We'll go from there :)

[MurderedSnake]

The 3.3 is a sick blower........looks like there will be at least two of those same Lysholm's at the shootout this year.

[c_mart_28]

Yep, a couple of these bad dad's will be out and about..

Should make for a fun outing! I don't think I'll make it to the track before the shootout...just in case I'm pushing that 9.99 threshold :)

[AutoMods]

so how much larger is this supercharger, percentage wise or air flow or boost capacity

[c_mart_28]

It's supposed to be able to make close to 30 psi but I'll never get even close to that with my stock longblock.

Max cfm of my 2.3 was 1430 and this 3.3 is around 2140. *Fact check..I had a hard time finding exact numbers*

Biggest benefit will be IAT's. My 2.3 used to just chill around the 140* even just driving around. At the track they would be through the roof. According to the Vortech guy who has one on his '04 Cobra, he never sees above 110* IAT's under any circumstances pullied to see 16 psi. That said, I'll be pullied to see 22-23 psi so I'll be higher but still significantly better than my old setup.

[BGjohnson]

Anybody have a 300shot I could borrow to keep up;)

Man I need turbos, you guys are gettin to quick for me!

[c_mart_28]

Oh, we'll see about that quick part. Everything always sounds great on paper!

[BGjohnson]

You are right, I DID beat you at the IAF/DS shootout :p

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k65/bgjohnson/th_caseyredlight.jpg (http://s85.photobucket.com/albums/k65/bgjohnson/?action=view&current=caseyredlight.mp4)

I got it from another angle if you want it.

All with love Casey, haha.

[AutoMods]

At 4:30 on the video http://importevolution.com/temp/videos/2011_shootout/final.wmv

[AutoMods]

At 4:30 on the video http://importevolution.com/temp/videos/2011_shootout/final.wmv

[c_mart_28]

Well it's been a long, hot summer but I'm finally making some progress on this car..

Early June I I finally hit the dyno only to find out that ProEFI was not going to put up with my fuel pump being "close" to it's limits. 10% fuel pressure variance and the ecu throws a soft rev limit. Dialed back timing and running about 20 psi keeps it at bay until I can afford to upgrade my pump. And injecors actually. 20/21 psi and I'm into the 90's injector duty cycle.

I've put about 100 miles on the car all summer long due to the fact that the ac was not working also. It was initially set up to let the stock ecu control it but apparently something wasn't set up properly so we had to run it to the proefi to allow it to run the ac. Just got that going today actually. I plan on putting a lot more miles on it now that's going.

Next step is to upgrade fuel pump run a bigger lower pulley and tuned for more boost. Hoping to be finished in time for the shootout ..

[slow ride]

It will be a tuff car to beat at the shootout. Can't wait to check it out.

[c_mart_28]

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb90/c_mart_28/2012-08-01_17-35-27_276.jpg
Long, long ways to the finish line but at least it runs and drives well as it sits.

[snickerlicker]

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb90/c_mart_28/2012-08-01_17-35-27_276.jpg
Long, long ways to the finish line but at least it runs and drives well as it sits.

Looking good! Drivers side inlet I see..

[c_mart_28]

Yep! I plan on modifying the DS inner fender to allow some better airflow. Seeing some higher IAT's than I'd like.

Bought some extra bulk fuel line to move my fpr or fuel feed to the spot where my Whipple inlet used to be.

Getting the proEFI dialed in has also been a pretty significant challenge. My tuner Chris is also a helicopter pilot and is at his busiest right now. Between his schedule and mine it's been hard to carve out even an afternoon to mess with the thing.

All in all though, we're making progress. It's probably a low-11 second car as it sits right now and if it just so happens that in October it is only that quick, I'll be okay with it. The car will see it's full potential eventually. It may just take a luttle more time (and money..) to get there.

[BGjohnson]

How does the RPM band feel? Can you tell a big difference just at 21psi?

[c_mart_28]

That's a good question actually. I don't really know what to think yet.

The powerband is most definitely shifted up about 1K rpm and it does not make the instant torque that my 2.3 had. I miss it to be honest.

I did know going into this that I would need to run at least 25 psi to make this blower worth it's while so I'm holding off on judgement until I get to at least that point.

I have my concerns as it sits though: the blower is super quiet. It also seems to take forever to build boost. I'd love for you to come take a peek at it, Chris.

[Sleepy]

Glad you have been able to get it running. Looking forward to seeing it out and about.

[AutoMods]

Not keen to superchargers . how does it lag when the rotors are bigger and flow more than your last supercharger and they are forced to spin with rpm as its connected to the crank. I just can't grasp how it flows more at higher rpm than your last charger but not at lower rpm.

with turbo's the heavier weight of the larger wheels and larger turbine a/r causes them not to spin up as fast at lower rpm but that doesn't apply to superchargers.

[sparkles]

Thanks for the physics lessons.

[AutoMods]

Thanks for the physics lessons.

I wish you'd give me a physics lesson on why the bigger charger loses low end. i'm not doubting it, just don't understand why

[sparkles]

Because Ford. That's why.

[c_mart_28]

You know, Ryan, I honestly don't have an exact reasoning for you. I can say that these twin screw blowers do have an efficiency range and the larger the blower, the higher they seem to need to be spun to reach peak efficiency.

That said, I was able to get my fuel pump off and sent away to Magnafuel to be rebuilt and upgraded to their 2500 hp pump specs.

If this rebuild/upgrade process works like they said it will, I will become a Magnafuel fanboy for life.

[c_mart_28]

Well I did some data logging and was seeing that peak boost wasn't being made until almost 5k rpm..then after one of my 2-3rd gear pulls, the car had next to no vacuum and wouldn't idle. Figured I just popped off a vac line.

Nope.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb90/c_mart_28/2012-09-06_20-31-21_566.jpg

Whole top of the boost bypass valve came off. No wonder I wasn't building boost. No wonder it wasn't making much power..the bypass valve was passing along most of the boost it was making.

Little home remedy fix, some 105 lb injectors to go along with my upgraded Magnafuel pump to their 2500 hp pump specs, toss on my +10 lb lower pulley, we'll see if it can't make a little power yet.

Next concern is clutch. It just never ends.

[slow ride]

For the price and since you drag race I'd say a RXT. If you can re-use your old flywheel, machine it and go. Check with Mike at the ws6 store/rpm speed on pricing as I'm sure he would beat anyone else.

[AutoMods]

sweet. how long did your spec 3+ last year?

[c_mart_28]

Well the spec 3+ is still holding for right now. Nearing 10k miles and +/- 75ish drag strip launches. Probably 10-15 on a slick with 700+ ft lbs of torque.

I'm just more looking towards the inevitable really. With the success this clutch as given me, especially considering it's reasonable cost, I'll likely just buy another. The flywheel is also Spec and it's their aluminum setup so I should be able to just buy a new friction plate and go. At least I hope that'll do the trick..

[90blkbrd]

Not keen to superchargers . how does it lag when the rotors are bigger and flow more than your last supercharger and they are forced to spin with rpm as its connected to the crank. I just can't grasp how it flows more at higher rpm than your last charger but not at lower rpm.

with turbo's the heavier weight of the larger wheels and larger turbine a/r causes them not to spin up as fast at lower rpm but that doesn't apply to superchargers.

I didn't read all 6 pages but l'll bet he went with a larger pulley when he installed a larger blower. Because he is spinning the larger blower slower the engine is getting less air at low rpms and more air at higher rpms. He could put a smaller pulley on it and regain the low end.