New Car Options?

[Phish]

I posted this up on DS, but i figured it may get a little bit more action here. I am thinking about trading off the RX8. I want to get something alot more practical and daily driverable. I dont care about speed and power obviously, but i do care about MPG and a little style. Also, a big plus for me is interior technology. I would like to stay in the cheaper range also. A couple of cars i was thinking was the Hyundai Veloster or the Nissan Juke. Again i am keeping an open mind, and am open to all suggestions. Would like to stay in the 24,000 range and also have it be a new vehicle. Whats the suggestions fellas?

[FiFdYnUtZ]

I have been impressed with the higher trim level Chevy cruze' I have seen..

[Phish]

Yeah, I have considered the cruze eco as an option also. I do like the one that Sparkles drives. However, I like things that are a little differnt as far as style goes. Its still not a deal breaker on the Cruze though. Another option to consider. I am also not to impressed with Chevy's warranty.

[AutoMods]

I dont care about speed and power obviously

wow , don't let the rotary woes take the car guy out of you. we are all backyard mechanics and we don't need to worry about new car warranties so I'm all for letting some other buyer take the initial depreciation hit on a new car. You could get a pretty awesome car for 24k used. for example trevors lincoln ls1 for $14k , plenty of luxury in that car. and get a mpg daily with the rest of you money

[JustinS]

I wasn't impressed with my friend's Nissan Juke...rattles and squeaks in every part of the car. Not something I'd be happy with on a brand new car with less than 10,000 miles.

[Phish]

wow , don't let the rotary woes take the car guy out of you. we are all backyard mechanics and we don't need to worry about new car warranties so I'm all for letting some other buyer take the initial depreciation hit on a new car. You could get a pretty awesome car for 24k used. for example trevors lincoln ls1 for $14k , plenty of luxury in that car. and get a mpg daily with the rest of you money

Na Just looking for something that i wont have to worry about or touch as far as mechanics go. Gets good gas mileage, and has a ton of tech on the inside. I still plan on having a project car, just dont want the daily driver to turn into a project also.

Point taken on the juke. The interior does look not so well put together.

[slow ride]

Never buy new. Get something at least a couple years old and let the first owner take the BIG hit. Car still should feel like new only a few years old and have a decent amount of warranty left to let any bugs get fixed for free while you have it.

[c_mart_28]

Buy yourself a new or slightly used Mazdaspeed 3. We bought ours new in '08 and I still enjoy driving that thing.

That said, if you buy a Juke, you are dead to me. :)

[McKeever]

Don't know if your just looking at 4 doors, but the new Toyota FT-86 / Scion FR-S / Subaru BRZ I think is going to hit the market sometime this year. Should be a fun economical car. http://www.ft86club.com/

[black88gt]

A juke?

You could really get a much nicer car buying used compared to new w/ that price range

You could get a low mile hybrid Fusion or Fusion sport in your range, newer Malibu as well. If you wanted smaller the Cruz and Focus are great options.

[sparkles]

I am also not to impressed with Chevy's warranty.

Explain.

[TbTalon94]

Kia Optima turbo??

http://photos1.leftlanenews.com/photos/content/october2010/thumbnailsnew/me-kia-optima-turbo-10_1035.jpg
http://car-designconcept.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/2011-kia-optima-sx-front-interior.jpg

[sparkles]

I've heard those things along with the Genesis are WAY overrated and slow. Something about the trans in them is tuned on the not sporty at all side.

[AutoMods]

if you plan on keeping the car for 10+ years, all that interior technology you want might start costing you money if the electronics start failing. some cars have the hvac, radio, onstar and gps all operated from the lcd screen . not sure how reliable that stuff is when it gets old.

[TbTalon94]

I've heard those things along with the Genesis are WAY overrated and slow. Something about the trans in them is tuned on the not sporty at all side.

Had a genesis, extremely over-rated. It WAS fun to drive and seamed to be built pretty solid...but dammit was it slow. With today's technology no turbo 4cyl car should really be under 265hp. Period. 200hp out of a 4-cyl turbo these days is just a slap in the face.

[Jappbox]

Here is my input. Get something brand new or less than 20k miles and 1-2 years old. If you have good Credit you can get 2.3-2.9% Intrest on one of these cars, To buy used and pay the 5-6% intrest for a 2008 or older car is pointless you wont save anything and have less warrenty. Ive had 2 "slightly" used cars in the last 3 years and both of them (Volvo/Saab) Had annoying issues and no warrenty or little left when I got it. On a used car you dont know who beat the piss out of it or if they spilled coffee all over the Radio. My Wife got a Cube that was a 1 year lease, less than 15k miles and we still got the new car interest. Saved us about 2k dollers off a brand new one but we did have to work the dealer a little since they wanted new price for a lightly used car. Just make a smart move on a Car if you get a turd or something you dont like its hard to not loose money if you want to get rid of it. I lost 5k in 1 year on the Volvo. Never again.

[Jappbox]

I would agree the Kia Optima Turbo is a good choice, some things will be cheap. but you get what you pay for and to pay around 20k for a car with 200hp and 40+ MPG. Sounds like a great deal.

[sparkles]

I'd like to see real world tests showing the Optima or Genesis getting 40 MPG or better. There's all sorts of first hand testimonials on the Cruze getting better than advertised at 42mpg. I'd bet money the Kia falls into the same category as the Civic and getting 5-10mpg less than advertised in real world conditions. We personally are getting 38mpg with mixed city, highway driving using E10. That's through an auto also.

[TbTalon94]

i got like 20-22 or so average in my genesis. I don't think they claim 40mpg. The Optima might get close to 40 with the 6-speed auto trans. The genesis was geared pretty short and was reving like 3,200 or so at 70mph...which is really high for a 6th gear.

But just to agree with everyone, i'd get a car that's a few years old and save the new car price tag.

[sparkles]

I'd agree with that if the interest is the same. If you wind up having to pay 5-7% more interest for a used car, that would probably pay the extra money to get a brand new car at 0.9%.

[Domestic Disturbance]

Don't know if your just looking at 4 doors, but the new Toyota FT-86 / Scion FR-S / Subaru BRZ I think is going to hit the market sometime this year. Should be a fun economical car. http://www.ft86club.com/

That thing looks sweet! Is it getting released here as the scion and subaru?

I'd say if you have to get new, Chevy Sonic, Mazda Speed3, Focus all seem like great cars. Just saw a Sonic hatch tonight, looks like a mean little thing. Im a fanboy though. I think all the newest generation Hondas look gross. Would also assume you'd lose the most money on the korean cars.

[Drifte]

^yea. Scion already lists the car online. Subaru is supposed to follow soon. Im holding out for an STI model.

[FiFdYnUtZ]

those things are sweet looking! might have to talk the old lady into one someday..

[85XR7Project]

The Sonic is actually Korean built/designed iirc. I know for a fact the chevy aveo was a daewoo with chevy looks and I'm fairly sure the basics are about the same with the sonic. I will say however the sonic DOES look pretty cool.

[Domestic Disturbance]

I was under the impression Sonic was a move away from the daewoo and more euro. I hope so, Aveo's are the premiere shitbox on the road.

[Deimos]

aveo's are JUNK. damn korean all over that daewu tang clan POS

[Domestic Disturbance]

you can get the turbo 1.4L with a 6 speed manual. boss

[AutoMods]

2013 dodge dart http://www.autoguide.com/gallery/gallery.php/d/483797-3/2013-Dodge-Dart-14.JPG

[Phish]

I saw the dart being advertiesed on the dodge website. Just something about the looks, Not a big fan as of yet.

[TbTalon94]

Looks like a cross between a malibu and impala with the stolen grill of a mitsu car. GM's design team sucks ass, seriously. They NEVER come out with anything innovative or good looking unless it's the vette, which they've had that design for YEARS and just have barely improved on it.

[85XR7Project]

I would go as far to say if you are going to go mildly used get a Turbo'd Cobalt SS. The magazines applauded how amazing it was and id outperformed a ton of way more expensive cars. Basically a Fwd Corvette is how the mags described it.

[Clinical]

I would go as far to say if you are going to go mildly used get a Turbo'd Cobalt SS. The magazines applauded how amazing it was and id outperformed a ton of way more expensive cars. Basically a Fwd Corvette is how the mags described it.
I'd second this. I've only test-driven a SC/SS cobalt and was pretty impressed how it drove for a stock car. The turbo ones are supposedly a lot quicker/more efficient. I hear they are great on gas, easier than most 'new' cars to work on, and plenty of power if you need it. I think you can get the newer ones in 4 door as well with the SS turbo.

[Drifte]

The sonic comes standard 1.8l n/a. The 1.4l turbo is a $700 option. Not really a good option either, pay more upfront, and spend more in maintenance. Id probably go 1.8l.

[sparkles]

if you plan on keeping the car for 10+ years, all that interior technology you want might start costing you money if the electronics start failing. some cars have the hvac, radio, onstar and gps all operated from the lcd screen . not sure how reliable that stuff is when it gets old.
By that line of thinking, we should all still have carb'd vehicles cause new technology is "scary".


The Sonic is actually Korean built/designed iirc. I know for a fact the chevy aveo was a daewoo with chevy looks and I'm fairly sure the basics are about the same with the sonic. I will say however the sonic DOES look pretty cool.
The Cruze in made in Lordstown, Ohio. The '11 model's trans were German, but are now being manufactured in the US as well. The car came out a few years ago in Korea, Australia, and Europe. The Sonic is made somewhere in the Midwest too IIRC. The Holden Version of the Cruze is pretty good looking IMO.
http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Cruze_SRiV_063-625x416.jpg525

[85XR7Project]

Right but is the engine itself Korean made like the turd in the Aveo was?

[sparkles]

The engine is being manufactured in Lordstown also I believe. The diesel engine that is coming in 2013 may be manufactured in Germany. Word is still out on who's going to put it together, but it's a go for the US to get the diesel option. That should be awesome.

[AutoMods]

By that line of thinking, we should all still have carb'd vehicles cause new technology is "scary".

the amount of crap they put in the car gets ridiculous. power tilt steering wheel, gps, cameras, motion sensors, parallel parking assist, memorized seat positions, motorized adjustable pedals, motorized rear window shades. americans set the cruise control and are too lazy to reach up to the stereo so they have buttons on the steering wheel. all the trendy onstar, microsoft sync, ipod ports

then the government mandates all this other stuff like airbads, antilocks. now tire pressure monitoring and electronic stability control. is the government going to help pay to fix these systems when the sensors go bad and start throwing check engine lights after 8+ years of road salt hitting them.

I like to keep cars past the warranty phase, no thanks to all the bs features . not too mention if its a project car that stuff all gets in the way.

[TbTalon94]

LOL still sparkles hit it on the head when he said by that mentality we all should be driving carbed cars. Technology will ONLY get better as years go by, that's how it works. Stuff is so advanced now and the ways things are manufactured are much higher. 2000-11 cars don't have bad reps as far as replacing sensors and all kinds of stupid crap like older cars are. Like a 90-94 DSM. I swear everything electrical and mostly mechanical goes bad on them if they aren't maintained. It just isn't that way today.

[LT1Dan]

Looks like a cross between a malibu and impala with the stolen grill of a mitsu car. GM's design team sucks ass, seriously. They NEVER come out with anything innovative or good looking unless it's the vette, which they've had that design for YEARS and just have barely improved on it.

Are you talking about the DODGE Dart pictured above?

[AutoMods]

well 2004-2011 cars aren't 8+ years old yet so you can't say for sure how reliable they will be. i'll remind you that you were just throwing the f-bomb a few days ago doing some simple wiring.

my 98 durango is really basic but has failed in many areas, antilock, speed sensor, cruise, power window motor, radio, hvac vents don't switch right. i know dodge is shit though. problems starting happening at like 80k.

just a few days ago the 2005 subaru throw a check engine light and disabled the cruise. next day the cel was gone so never did look into it.

[85XR7Project]

Are you talking about the DODGE Dart pictured above?

I wondered that as well. I just assumed he was referring to the sonic

[black88gt]

well 2004-2011 cars aren't 8+ years old yet so you can't say for sure how reliable they will be. i'll remind you that you were just throwing the f-bomb a few days ago doing some simple wiring.

my 98 durango is really basic but has failed in many areas, antilock, speed sensor, cruise, power window motor, radio, hvac vents don't switch right. i know dodge is shit though. problems starting happening at like 80k.

just a few days ago the 2005 subaru throw a check engine light and disabled the cruise. next day the cel was gone so never did look into it.

IMO Occam's Razor definitely applies in the case of cars. How many carbed cars are still out running around and can be serviced almost entirely w/ hand tools? If wiring some aftermarket gauges was bad imagine replacing the LCD unit in a newer vehicle; they will fail eventually.

With that in mind we sacrafice this reliability and ease of operation for creature comforts, MPG, performance. IMO adding more and more "features" is nice but does add more items that could and will eventually fail. Working on an old simple carbed vehicle is relaxing compared to new shit.

[Drifte]

well 2004-2011 cars aren't 8+ years old yet so you can't say for sure how reliable they will be. i'll remind you that you were just throwing the f-bomb a few days ago doing some simple wiring.

my 98 durango is really basic but has failed in many areas, antilock, speed sensor, cruise, power window motor, radio, hvac vents don't switch right. i know dodge is shit though. problems starting happening at like 80k.

just a few days ago the 2005 subaru throw a check engine light and disabled the cruise. next day the cel was gone so never did look into it.

Remember, any CEL in the subby is going to disable cruise. Its an annoying tactic that works to get people to fix stuff.

[LT1Dan]

I wondered that as well. I just assumed he was referring to the sonic

That would make sense. I browse on my phone during the day and sometimes miss posts.

[Jappbox]

http://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/toyota-gt-86-tokyo-auto-salon-2012-01-13?imageNo=0

[TbTalon94]

Everything is an argument with you. The reliability of cars now days are better then old days. Admit it and stop arguing with everyone.


well 2004-2011 cars aren't 8+ years old yet so you can't say for sure how reliable they will be. i'll remind you that you were just throwing the f-bomb a few days ago doing some simple wiring.

my 98 durango is really basic but has failed in many areas, antilock, speed sensor, cruise, power window motor, radio, hvac vents don't switch right. i know dodge is shit though. problems starting happening at like 80k.

just a few days ago the 2005 subaru throw a check engine light and disabled the cruise. next day the cel was gone so never did look into it.

[TbTalon94]

I wondered that as well. I just assumed he was referring to the sonic

I was talking about the Dart yea, but just GM cars in general lately.

[AutoMods]

Admit it and stop arguing with everyone.

i thought about it and I've come to the conclusion that you are right

[Domestic Disturbance]

i thought about it and I've come to the conclusion that you are right

I don't think he's trying to start negative arguments, but rather spark debates. We can't all agree, but we can give logical points to argue our position.

But I actually strongly disagree with you on the opinion of GM design as of lately. I think its 180 better than 5 years ago. The previous generation malibu, current impala, cavalier/cobalt (excluding ss), trackers, s10's, are all pretty bland and shitty vehicles. I remember seeing the first current gen malibu and being excited that chevy was making a sedan you could call good looking. The c6 chassis is getting dragged out a little though, but vettes don't get redesigned too often. They have been making them since 1953, and are only on the 6th generation.


As for modern creature comforts, I think they are all very neat and exciting but fail to interest me in owning anything with them. Simple seems to work the best. My daily driver is 100% that(almost too simple). Crank windows, no abs, manual rack, no cruise, just A/C like a high roller! There's no looming fear of failure at a great expense though. Also these older hondas are the simplest things on this planet to work on. That is an example of the extreme polar opposite though.

[sparkles]

Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with DD on GM's designs as of late. I'd like to know what you're comparing it to that's in the same class.

[TbTalon94]

Well the looks of the cars are obviously going to be opinion based. I just look at the malibu, cruze, impala, dart, cobalt, and really just see the same car but tweaked a little to sell another car. IDK I guess i'm just not impressed with their design. Other manufacturers are making cars more modern looking, or just sleeker in general. Granted the Camaro, Charger, Corvette, etc. all look great. So I guess they are just making their less expensive economy cars appeal to the right person. I'm just not a fan.

[LT1Dan]

Dodge isn't a GM product.

[85XR7Project]

Dodge isn't a GM product.

When did this happen?!?!

[black88gt]

Dodge isn't a GM product.

Mind. BLOWN.

[LT1Dan]

Mind. BLOWN.

My mind is blown that GM engineers designed the Charger apparently.

[85XR7Project]

I can't say id expect to see much tasteful designs coming out of the GM design studios. Yeah there are a few winners, but the rest, they are about as boring as anything from Toyota right now.

[sparkles]

Well the looks of the cars are obviously going to be opinion based. I just look at the malibu, cruze, impala, dart, cobalt, and really just see the same car but tweaked a little to sell another car. IDK I guess i'm just not impressed with their design. Other manufacturers are making cars more modern looking, or just sleeker in general. Granted the Camaro, Charger, Corvette, etc. all look great. So I guess they are just making their less expensive economy cars appeal to the right person. I'm just not a fan.

As opposed to a company like lets say BMW where every car in their lineup looks the same and has for years?

[TbTalon94]

Didn't say GM was the only manufacturer to do that. BMW cars have a modern/sleek look to them and they try to match the looks as a brand. Same as GM/Ford/Mitsu. All have key indications of what manufacturer it is besides just the symbol.

I see your just like Ryan with arguments/debates even though I said its Opinion based. You also own one of the cars I'm calling bland so I can see your defense. For the sake of the argument and thread...most all manufacturers have their cars looking the same to follow the brand name and style. IN MY OPINION the GM designs as of late are bland and not appealing. I thought GM owned basically all the manufacturers besides ford, so sorry my mistake you can take the dodges off the list. Better?

[Domestic Disturbance]

chrysler dodge jeep was its own deal, then owned by mercedes, and now owned by Fiat since the bankruptcy. BMW design is definitely at a higher par than Chevys, dodges, etc, otherwise what are you paying for? I think Cadillac is up there though, but I'm not really a fan of most the Bengle beemers. New dodges/chryslers are really turning around too though. This thing is killer looking IMO
http://image.motortrend.com/f/38079888+w1500+ar1+st0/2012-dodge-charger-SRT8-front-three-quarters.jpg

Back on topic Phish. Do you have any particular segment of vehicles you are looking at? Sedan, compact, suv? Anything that really sparks your interest? I also saw that Ford is coming out with a Focus ST which looks killer, but no price range on it.

[85XR7Project]

because its true...
http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/197007_10150432146205384_848495383_17587835_425522 3_n.jpg

[sparkles]

I see your just like Ryan with arguments/debates even though I said its Opinion based. You also own one of the cars I'm calling bland so I can see your defense.

I bought the car because of it's features and styling. Not the other way around. We looked at and test drove quite a few cars before settling on the Cruze. We literally had papers in front of us ready to sign to buy a Civic at one point. Sorry my opinion is that your opinion makes no sense, especially considering I just went through a few months of looking at most of these cars mentioned just a few months ago. Styling, MPG, Features, Warranty, Performance, and Price were all key factors that led us to buying what we did. The one and ONLY thing that a couple of the other manufactures had better was a .09% interest rate compared to the 2.9% we have on ours. The extra 40,000 miles worth of warranty compared to the 60k and 30k the others were offering IMO, outweighed the little amount of extra interest. Especially beings how we weren't financing very much of the total price.

[sparkles]

Back on topic Phish. Do you have any particular segment of vehicles you are looking at? Sedan, compact, suv? Anything that really sparks your interest? I also saw that Ford is coming out with a Focus ST which looks killer, but no price range on it.

Depending on what engine they decide to put in it, this would actually be pretty badass. Basically a hatchback Fiesta with 250hp.

[85XR7Project]

They are putting the 2.0 EcoBoost in it, sounds like its gonna be a mean mother fucker. Only way to make it better is to give us the European Focus ST with the 300hp turbo I5

[BGjohnson]

They are putting the 2.0 EcoBoost in it, sounds like its gonna be a mean mother fucker. Only way to make it better is to give us the European Focus ST with the 300hp turbo I5

Word, Top gear loved the shit out it.

[snickerlicker]

I bought the car because of it's features and styling. Not the other way around. We looked at and test drove quite a few cars before settling on the Cruze. We literally had papers in front of us ready to sign to buy a Civic at one point. Sorry my opinion is that your opinion makes no sense, especially considering I just went through a few months of looking at most of these cars mentioned just a few months ago. Styling, MPG, Features, Warranty, Performance, and Price were all key factors that led us to buying what we did. The one and ONLY thing that a couple of the other manufactures had better was a .09% interest rate compared to the 2.9% we have on ours. The extra 40,000 miles worth of warranty compared to the 60k and 30k the others were offering IMO, outweighed the little amount of extra interest. Especially beings how we weren't financing very much of the total price.

Has it been a good car for you? They are good looking no matter what the import lovers say.

[sparkles]

Love it. Wish we would have got a manual, but the wife wouldn't budge.

[85XR7Project]

.don't those have a manumatic selection?

[Clinical]

i really dig the new cruzes. I'd probably have to get a fiesta if I were to buy a new econo-car, but the cruze would be a close second, especially since the cruze is a lot more of a full size car for the same price.

[sparkles]

.don't those have a manumatic selection?
Yes. Six speed auto.

[Deimos]

Go juke r

[85XR7Project]

The Juke is the ugliest car/suv/whatthefuckisit I've ever seen.

[Deimos]

at 485 hp snd AWD hoe can you say no to the nissan gtr engine?

[85XR7Project]

Well seeing as only one has been made and its not a manual id certainly say no. Neat idea but needs three pedals.

[McKeever]

Just saw pics of the new 2013 Fusion. Looks good, thought it was an Austin Martin at first. Better yet you can get it with the 2.0 ecoboost. http://www.ford.com/cars/fusion/2013/gallery/photos/

[black88gt]

Just saw pics of the new 2013 Fusion. Looks good, thought it was an Austin Martin at first. Better yet you can get it with the 2.0 ecoboost. http://www.ford.com/cars/fusion/2013/gallery/photos/

Whoa. Knew the ecoboost was coming but that styling is interesting. Not sure if its my thing but I'll have to see it in person to be sure.

[AutoMods]

that fusion looks sweet. i think phish got tired of us and left his own thread

[Phish]

Na... i enjoy the debate which is why i started this thread. I have made a decision though. My decision was to not decide. I am planning on waiting and giving it a little while longer. Alot of new cars or newer versions of cars that are coing out of that i am quite interested in. I would like to see what these cars have to offer before i dive in and make my decision.

As far as what i was/am looking for would be somewhat of an econo car thats stylish. NOt really looking for an SUV but not counting one out either. I believe you guys hit it on the head with all the suffestions. I would seriously consider the New Focus ST or the New Turbo Veloster. Style wise i like the look. From a praciticallity standpoint, i think the Cruze would be an excellent option and i totally agree with sparkles and his purchase of the car. Definately was not a bad choice for him. The fusion i believe to be a little more large then what i am looking for and for some reason, i am kinda starting to like a lot of the newer hatchback looks.

[TbTalon94]

How about an 09 Scion XB :)

[sparkles]

That Fusion looks awesome. Love the interior. I'm guessing it's in the $30s price wise though.

[Drifte]

Eco cars shouldnt have turbos.

But if the entire debate is based on looks:

2012 focus
http://www.carsventure.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/2012-ford-focus-black.jpg

[black88gt]

Fun daily drivers should have turbos.



While you may be right I fixed it to reflect the sentiments of an enthusiast forum.

[AutoMods]

^ focus looks good, i can't buy anymore two door cars nowadays.

which reminds me that we were really close to buying a 350z but instead bought a new legacy gt. and good thing because after two years we had a little girl and we would've had to sell the 350z. so keep that in mind phish

[sparkles]

Buttsecks. Problem solved.

[Phish]

As is sits now i think the focuz ST or the Turbo Veloster would be the way i would go. That bing said without actually being inside either version of the car since they are not on the lot yet.

[85XR7Project]

Eco cars shouldnt have turbos.

But if the entire debate is based on looks:

2012 focus
http://www.carsventure.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/2012-ford-focus-black.jpg

That is the European Focus RS that I was talking about and we will never get that sweet mother fucker. We get this instead:
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2010/09/forfoc055-st-630op.jpg