thinking about doing a built iron block ls motor

[AutoMods]

What do you guys think about a built iron block lq9 or lq4 6.0 ls motor ? I hate to add an extra 80 pounds to the front of a light car but I would like to invest in a 4" bore motor and a forged ls2 is too expensive. I want some more displacement for torque and quicker spool. 6.6 stroker sounds like fun, not sure if thats the best option though.

The rest of this year I might take it easy and add a front mount, bigger exhaust, maybe some much needed paint work.

Next year i'd like to have a nice rear end and forged motor. The rear is going to cost around $2k so with that expense it would be nice to save with the cheaper iron block. Up the boost and 700whp to start off with. Skys the limit though with iron block.

I could afford to forge my ls1 so that is an option but I've been thinking of selling the ls1 to help fund the forged iron block. Also not sure how much money will be left over for the heads so it'll probably be cheap heads until I get to that. Then I figure a few years down the road the ls2 and ls3 will come down in price if I ever want to go aluminum block again.

[tylers88]

nothing wrong with the LQ4 or 9, If you plan on do a total build with better heads and so on get the LQ4 it will be cheaper

[Grr]

ive owned so many LS cars its sickening, and i would under no circumstances EVER build an iron block motor or own one again. The weight just isnt worth it. IMHO the best motor on the market is L33 aluminum 5.3, the 4" bore motors just dont seal the heads like a 5.3. There is no reason to throw an anchor in your car when you already have everything you need. No reason to make over 650-700whp with your setup, I built a 91 FC with a freind with a forged 370, glide, and grannys 8.8 setup. Its 2700lbs with fuel and is nearly undriveable over 8psi, so what was the point.

[c_mart_28]

Any videos or track time details of that car? Sounds awesome.

[Deimos]

I heard ls2 is here its at. But really making that big of a deal over 80 pounds meh you can find other ways to lighten your car.

[ryans1000]

test

[Domestic Disturbance]

Idk man its only 80lbs but also the weight savings of the rx7 platform is what makes it so awesome. Not sure if the square port heads would be worth it in a boosted setup though. I would imagine you wouldn't build boost as quickly due to the lower runner velocity/let back pressure. I could be wrong on that too.

[Grr]

IMHO the square port heads are no better than a good set of cathedrals. In a boosted app there is little to no gain

[FiFdYnUtZ]

Well you can still run cathedral port heads on the lq's

[Grr]

or you can build a alum block motor and throw 10 bricks in the nose of the car and accomplish the same thing

Did anyone catch the new issue of hot rod where they made 1200hp with a stock 4.8 bottom end? Telling you there is no need to go 6.0L with a turbo setup, in fact the small bore motors seem to make just as much power or even more with less problems

[LT1Dan]

^Was just going to mention that Hot Rod engine. They were trying to blow it up and it stayed together. I'd say go 5.3 but you can't really go wrong with any of these engines.

[FiFdYnUtZ]

..he doesn't want to go aluminum for cost issues...the iron block been proven over and over as a great turbo setup...and is technically stronger than the latter....I get you have "owned sooo many LS cars" but half the stuff your saying sounds pretty biased and uninformed

[Deimos]

..he doesn't want to go aluminum for cost issues...the iron block been proven over and over as a great turbo setup...and is technically stronger than the latter....i get you have "owned sooo many ls cars" but half the stuff your saying sounds pretty biased and uninformed

qft.

[AutoMods]

you guys got a link to that hot rod article online or was it only in the magazine?

[LT1Dan]

I'm not seeing it on their website. It looks like they post the articles online after the next months magazine is printed.

[Grr]

Case in point, the L33 alum block 5.3 (which can be purchased for around $700 complete BTW) is the strongest factory 4-bolt block when boost is used. It will not push water, has rods good to 750whp, high compression for use with E85, will have lower backpressure with the OPs F1-68 turbine wheel, and to top it off comes with either 243 heads or 799 heads.

I owned and built a LQ4 with a big ass turbo, and I know what its limitations are. If I were to do it again (which I will im my camaro) it will likely be a forged aluminum 5.3 from AES racing engines and a Comp oil-less turbo. From MY experience using a TC78 with a built LQ block, its a waste of time. Backpressure was so high it wouldnt make over 12psi even with all the gates stuck shut

[Mike@Salkowski-Motorsport]

I would go with the iron 5.3l they can easily go to a 3.905 bore and are allot stronger then the aluminum blocks. I built a few 347 5.3l iron blocks and the guys love them. The smaller bore wont kil you much if you are boosting it. If you where going to build it for nitrous or na I would say go 4inch bore or bigger. Just leave the stock crank in it, and put some good rods and pistons in it and it will be good for 1000hp easy.

[sparkles]

qft.

lol

[Deimos]

quoted from truth. Man when someone first told me that I thought it meant quit f%cking talking lol. Btw I got two more stickers yet again for you to get a lane.

[sparkles]

I lost 2 hubcaps the other day hitting a big azz puddle. Weight reduction. Bring it.

[Deimos]

dude my trunk is full of aluminum I pop reverse wheelies all day long mo fo

[slow ride]

I wouldn't even mess with all the bullshit. Just forge what you have and be done. I can build you something in stock stroke for way way under 2k. Iron blocks ae nice in that they don't move around as much, etc, but I wouldn't want the extra weight at this power level and with your car. I just can't believe you want to upgrade already.

[AutoMods]

I just can't believe you want to upgrade already.

not sure what you mean by that.

but just like the idea of tire eating torque down low like below 3750 rpms its pretty dead right now. guess you need to ride in my car and see what you think. Don't know if its just the backpressure of a turbo setup down low. or if i'm just used to the extra power it has at full boost so when its not in boost it feels slow. Feels real good when boost kicks in though, I'm guessing it should dyno around 600whp on a cool day. I still have some things to try like fmic and bigger exhaust. forging my ls1 does sound easy and I have some nice parts already installed like dual springs, pushrods, ls2 timing chain, cam, and lots of new gaskets and seals.

the iron is just tempting as its cheap and reliable and more displacement and if you blow it up your not out as much. Well something like a 6.6 liter would be dramatic. but not sure if a 6.6 stroker or a 6.0 is the displacement of choice for a turbo setup. Liike if you were going to recommend not stroking it out to 6.6 and just doing a 6.0 iron then if you compare that to just sticking with my 5.7 then thats not much of a difference in displacement. i'll give you a call sometime

[FiFdYnUtZ]

I don't think the striker motors work as well with boost as a larger bore shorter stroke setup...but I could be mistaken...my long term plans for the bird is a forged ls2 370 with a 88mm

[Drifte]

I don't think the striker motors work as well with boost as a larger bore shorter stroke setup...but I could be mistaken...my long term plans for the bird is a forged ls2 370 with a 88mm
Turbonetics 88mm Midframe. rated for like 1500 hp, you and Jessica Barton can be buddies. Just dont let her talk.

[TbTalon94]

She doesn't run Turbonetics anymore. She's got new bolt-ons. Pun in intended

[Drifte]

Whats she running now? She left before the forged billet wheels.

[TbTalon94]

some custom billet Precision. Says it's a 76mm still but made like 100hp more then the old "custom" 76mm Turbonetics. She also finally went 8's with it.

[AutoMods]

slowride, I ran accross some old posts from some reputable people about ring seal issues around 800whp on the ls1 block. you ever heard of this issue?




factory ls1 block i basically went through 2 sets of rings in one year of daily driving and weekend racing at about 800hp

iron block has been in since november and same abuse, little MORE hp, and still sealing like it was in november.



We have had problems maintaining ring seal for more than 6 months of street racing/driving with high HP boosted aluminum blocks. You could probably cure some of it with hard block filler on the 3.9 bore blocks. The LS2 block is built stronger in some key area's, but we have not boosted one hard yet.

Kurt


Torque plate honed-yes.
1000hp at the flywheel, in my opionion would lose ring seal in a 3.900 block to often for the normal customer to deal with.
800+ is high hp. 1200 is big bad hp. 1500+ makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up everytime I start it.

Kurt

[slow ride]

I have heard of all of them and I'm sure they are running the snot out of the cars on a regular basis and probably put more miles/time on the engines than you will. You're going to need quite a few different parts in your turbo setup to support over 800whp anyway. How far do you want to take it? You can't just build something and never touch it again. It's like upgrading to a overkill clutch "cuz I don't want to do it again" it just doesn't work that way. There is nothing wrong with forging the stock shortblock which should take you way further than that 6 speed will.(remember torque kills them also) At some point you're going to be breaking tons of stuff in the drivetrain as you keep turning up the wick.

I just think power is the least of your worries over time as the stock rear and t56 will give out way before a properly tuned 800whp forged stock short. Your midsize turbo setup mixed with and torquey 408, etc will just find the limit sooner. I'd save money/weight for now and spend the extra bucks on the drivetrain.

[Sleepy]

Not that my .02 matter, However I will throw it out anyway. Obviously situations are different. When I had my mustang I had the approach slow ride was saying not to do. Build it once and never touch it again. I broke myself putting a forged bottom end in my car(I was 19 at the time). Eventually after I got it running again I was so pissed that I blew all my cash I ended up selling it for a huge loss.

I guess my suggestion is to not go to crazy on one thing. I doubt you are going to burn yourself out, however it does not make a ton of sense spending a bunch of cash on a short block you will never take full advantage of either.

Still disgruntled I sold that damn car.

[sparkles]

^
Pretty much what I did at the same age.

Usually, when you're young and building a car though, you fall into 2 categories:
1. Pretty much what you just said. You have a pile of cash sitting around and spend it all at once on components you think you need that aren't really broken or needing replaced for what the end result will be. Pretty soon, you run out of money and wind up with something that is relatively fast and SUPER reliable or you broke something really expensive and no longer have any money to fix it. Selling it becomes the way out for most and usually winds up being a great deal for whoever buys it.

or

2. You take the way I've been taking this time around. You spend a little here. A little there. Fix things as they come up using a middle of the road part that is just as decent as the more expensive part or make it yourself. I mean for fucks sake, why does a cold air kit have to cost a few hundred bucks when you, and afternoon, and a welder can do the same thing for pennies on the dollar. The problem is, in your inexperience and youth, you do things that you shouldn't with your mad "fab skillz" and wind up with a hacked together car that seems to break every other time you drive it. (ie see any DSM) Most of these guys get discouraged with fixing their car all the time and get rid of them or trade them for another crap box and start the same game over. A few stubborn ones will stick with it, get better, and eventually wind up with some pretty fast shit.

Sometimes dumb luck can play a portion too. Take me for instance. I just broke the same style rear on a slower car that I had in my previous faster car that had gobbs more torque and was able to get a 10.8 out of with no issues. Only difference being the gear ratio. Not everything is an equal and you can't believe everything you read on the internet. Sometimes you just gotta go till it breaks and fix it then. Just keep some money in your pocketbook. You KNOW it going to eventually.

[c_mart_28]

The key part is simply patience with someone building a car from stock. I think you CAN build a car one good piece at a time but that simply places a target on that next weakest link which is somewhat a given.

Take my car for example, like slow ride had talked about previously with Ryan's car, my T56 is also somewhat at it's limit. I do have a few nice bits like upgraded input shaft, but ultimately the tranny itself won't like 700+ ft lbs forever. Especially if I ever get around to nitrous. I guess to me though, the fact that my other supporting units should not need replacing (built SRA, strong driveshaft, upgraded u-joints, etc) means that once my tranny does go, I'll simply have to worry about either beefing up a T56 or going auto. After that the biggest concern would be my motor itself. I'll have to pay attention to all my supporting bits as I go along, but I should not have to re-buy them anytime soon.

One of the biggest benefits of my car is that I bought it with a lot of the annoying expensive drivetrain and suspension pieces already in place. Hence why I spent this year's modifcation budget on a standalone ECU. Something I'll never have to buy again. Something that will set me up for success for whatever I decide to do down the road.

Patience, expendable income (I have none,) and an informed route of modifications can lead to a successful build. It just won't happen overnight.

In short, I think Ryan should build a monster built 400+ ci motor and put that modification to bed for awhile. The other weak links will show themselves. Take care of the obvious ones first but let the others come as they may and hope they don't hurt anything else in the processs. Yeah you'll have a few surprises here and there but as long as you're not relying upon something silly to support that motor, it shouldn't suprise you.

Just don't expect to be running 9's by dropping that in by itself. (Or be faster than me for that matter :))

[sparkles]

Patience, expendable income (I have none,) and an informed route of modifications can lead to a successful build. It just won't happen overnight.


None of which most younger guys getting into the hobby building their first car have.

[85XR7Project]

Yeah my last project was proof of that. I had loads of plans and none of the money or time to do it.

[AutoMods]

the iron block is actually the cheaper option. about $600 for a well used 6.0 iron truck motor. Then I have to put an ls1 intake and oil pan/pickup on it and alternator bracket. Around $300-$450 in parts. ls1 motor I have is worth around $2k that I could sell. Iron would take more time to install as I'd have to move injectors, springs, pushrods, cam over. Deal with the drive by wire, figure out which pcm and wire harness to use, both are similar.

I want to run my forged motor at 700whp right away. Above that I'm not sure but it would be nice to have the option to go higher. I plan to have a solid ford rear end in it next year so that should be nearly bullet proof.

[c_mart_28]

Then still not be faster than me?

There aren't any cliffs or tall bridges in your area are there?? Just keep thinking positive, it'll be ok :)

[FiFdYnUtZ]

I have an ls1 intake, a couple tb's and mischief parts too Ryan...also a hydrolocked lq9

[AutoMods]

Then still not be faster than me?

There aren't any cliffs or tall bridges in your area are there?? Just keep thinking positive, it'll be ok :)

There has been a trend going on in case you didn't notice. Last year you were a lot faster, this year we were tied, next year you will just be a distant memory. Once the motor is forged I won't have to hold my car back like i'm doing now. Just turn the boost controller. In fact I kinda forgot about you Casey. I'm aiming for Allgo's vette and Eddy b now.

[c_mart_28]

Thats ok.

I like the assumption that my installation of a high-end standalone engine management system is for no other reason than appearance :)

[c_mart_28]

And besides, you're talking like the motor is already built and installed.

Got a bit of work to do. Until that point, the hopes and dreams you're piling up doesn't make your car any faster ;)

[Drifte]

You two dorks are arguing like girls. Wheres the senseless name calling?

[c_mart_28]

Nah Ryan and I are far too dignified.

I'll just continue to speak the troof and reference the facts!

[Phish]

Facts are for sissies

[Drifte]

Facts are for sissies
GAH like button.

[AutoMods]

And besides, you're talking like the motor is already built and installed.

Got a bit of work to do. Until that point, the hopes and dreams you're piling up doesn't make your car any faster ;)

As soon as the snow flies, the motor is coming out and it will be done in plenty of time for the spring. I see your only short term solution would be nitrous and then I will make fun of you for having two power adders.

[AutoMods]

You two dorks are arguing like girls. Wheres the senseless name calling?

Your ride has 19lb injectors that are far from being maxed out and you are calling me a girl ?

[Drifte]

Your ride has 19lb injectors that are far from being maxed out and you are calling me a girl ?
Hell you picked the truck. Truck for truck Im gonna win that race. Now toy for toy...we' haven't tried yet (and it has 8 200cc injectors!).

[c_mart_28]

As soon as the snow flies, the motor is coming out and it will be done in plenty of time for the spring. I see your only short term solution would be nitrous and then I will make fun of you for having two power adders.

Lol. Yeah, the whole having 2 power adders thing causes quite the controversy.

Keep in mind though, as per my usual, I'll likely be driving my pile to the track next spring and rolling back my 2+ hour drive listening to Tom Petty.

Let me know if you need a hand getting that race car up on the trailer (again..) :)

[Drifte]

Let me know if you need a hand getting that race car up on the trailer (again..) :)

http://www.mywebpower.com/graphics/thumbs/funny_pictures/funny_owned.jpg

[JustinS]

Casey and Ryan banter is so.....civilized....it blows my mind

Are you going to buy yourself a trailer this year Ryan, or will you keep renting the Uhaul? lol

[AutoMods]

Hell you picked the truck. Truck for truck Im gonna win that race. Now toy for toy...we' haven't tried yet (and it has 8 200cc injectors!).

i wouldn't be so sure, ...... its on .... my durango vs your s10 XTREME, i'll bring the camcorder. your bike will be next

[slow ride]

I have a feeling if you pull it when it goes back in it should have a different clutch in it. You could just build a decent 6.0 if you find a good deal on one. I'd like to see it with a good set of heads though.

[DustinsDuster]

Casey and Ryan banter is so.....civilized....it blows my mind

Are you going to buy yourself a trailer this year Ryan, or will you keep renting the Uhaul? lol

thats what happens when adults talk....

[JustinS]

thats what happens when adults talk....
Well, I'm used to reading Ed's and George's childish posts so...

lol

[OldSkoolRCR]

Darton sleeve LS1 block...and make them all wonder!

[AutoMods]

what motors are you and george running? ever had any issues with them?

[slow ride]

I pretty sure Ed just has a ls1 block and George a ls2.

[OldSkoolRCR]

I pretty sure Ed just has a ls1 block and George a ls2.

Exactly correct? both Aluminum blocks.

[AutoMods]

eddy b, what kind of horsepower is that block taking with nitrous? ever had to open it up and fix anything?

[OldSkoolRCR]

Never had any issue with the blocks, on either car.

[StreetSweeper]

Ryan,

I beleive we might be selling the short block out of the silver car this year! You should buy it slap a killer set of heads on it and give that bitch some BOOST! Your car will haull azz!

[OldSkoolRCR]

And after he buys it, I will tell him all the sneeky ifno on the stock cube short block, and why its runs so good. And yes it is 347 cu in.

[FiFdYnUtZ]

347 isn't stock cubes ed

[AutoMods]

if it has 11:1 compression ratio or lower and your going to give me a good deal, might be interested ;)

[slow ride]

That would depend on the heads also.

[OldSkoolRCR]

347 isn't stock cubes ed

346/347 WTF diff. U get the point.

[OldSkoolRCR]

That would depend on the heads also.


Exactly...U can have what ever comp. ratio you want, just get the heads at the CCs you need.

[StreetSweeper]

if it has 11:1 compression ratio or lower and your going to give me a good deal, might be interested ;)

It is a pump gas motor BTW.