If you carry or plan to, remember to be safe.

[96-eclipse-gst]

Accidents happen, lets try and remember how powerful and dangerous guns can be.

Southern Iowa Hunter Accidentally Shoots Self with Handgun

KELLERTON, Iowa (AP) — An Iowa hunter accidentally shot himself while examining his half brother's handgun.

Radio station KJAN-AM reports that the state Department of Natural Resources identified the hunter as 23-year-old Cameron Collier of Kellerton. The department says Collier and his half brother were in a truck parked Saturday morning northwest of Kellerton when the shooting happened. The men were waiting as their dogs searched for coyotes.

State officials say Kellerton was looking at the handgun and shot himself in the forearm. He was taken to a Des Moines hospital with a non-life-threatening injury.

[Ricky]

Maybe he shouldn't have pointed it at himself.... or handled it without pulling the clip out and discharging the round in the chamber out...

I know accidents happen but they can all be prevented by using gun safety steps.

Im sure we will be hearing about more accidental shootings more and more.

[SaNdMaNsSi]

I read this on KCRG....What a hillbilly. I guess they were pretty close to the Missouri border.....

[Drifte]

South of 80 common sense is a rare commodity.

Every idiot in iowa can carry a gun...I feel safer..(sarcasm, that was a bold lie).

Feeling safer was what they were going for right?

[SaNdMaNsSi]

South of 80 common sense is a rare commodity.

Every idiot in iowa can carry a gun...I feel safer..(sarcasm, that was a bold lie).

Feeling safer was what they were going for right?

I believe what citizens were going for is: If the police won't do their job, we'll do it for them.

What police were going for is: Thank God citizens can protect themselves, now we don't have to come up with lame excuses for why we're too lazy to protect them.

[Drifte]

That works, I just hope the test requires some level of intelligence to keep the guns out of the hands of those making the permit to carry necessary.

Maybe a spelling test, then maybe proof of citizen ship, followed up with an eye checkup.

I can think of more Im sure. Notice i skipped gun safety lol.

[TbTalon94]

That works, I just hope the test requires some level of intelligence to keep the guns out of the hands of those making the permit to carry necessary.

Maybe a spelling test, then maybe proof of citizen ship, followed up with an eye checkup.

I can think of more Im sure. Notice i skipped gun safety lol.

I'm thinking the same thing.

I know a lot of people that sure as hell should not be carrying a gun...but if they go through the course and pass the "test" do they get to? Scary to think to say the least.

[Xboosted23X]

I think they got way to lax on the law. Taking the sheriffs out of it is a stupid idea.
An eye site and drug test would be a good idea. If a criminal wants a gun the law isn't going to stop him.
I think to many people are getting carry permits just cuz they can.
I just hope people are smart enough to use common sense. (doubt it)
Just because you can carry and drink doesn't mean its a good idea.

[ZacFields]

I think society has gotten way too strict on gun laws, considering the ONLY people you're preventing from getting guns are honest people who want one for the right reasons. I would bet the majority of gun crimes are committed by unregistered guns.

I'm not saying we should do everything the way they did in the Western 1800's, but one fundamental freedom that should never change is my right to protect myself and my family. It's as true now as it was back in the 1800's. If some deranged person attacks me and is trying to kill me, I'd like to be able to shoot him. If someone breaks into my house and I don't have anything to protect myself with (but he assuredly has a gun because you can get one REGARDLESS of what the laws are), I can call the cops and hope that somehow they get to my house before this guy kills me. The safer bet here would be for me to have a gun to protect myself with.

Not trying to start a big debate as I'm sure there are plenty who disagree with me and that's fine. I don't expect anyone to change their viewpoints because of the way I feel about it, but I would rather millions of honest people have guns than to deny them of that right (and the right to conceal/carry) because even though I choose not to have or carry a gun of my own, one of those guys might be around one day when I'm being carjacked and they can help me out.

[StreetSweeper]

AMEN TO ZAC!!

[TbTalon94]

Zac I agree with your post. Having a gun to protect your home/family is completely different then giving the person the right to carry it on them at all times. I just think the class is being a little lenient on who can carry a gun and who can't.

Do they do background checks? Drug test would be a good idea...but just it's debatable on what type of drug. Is there a questionair.

I want to take the class but I really don't have a need to carry a gun with me all the time. There are a few I know who conceal and you'd never know ever unless someone told you. That's how it should be. Now I can walk the streets thinking...who's carrying?

[Scott]

That works, I just hope the test requires some level of intelligence to keep the guns out of the hands of those making the permit to carry necessary.

Maybe a spelling test, then maybe proof of citizen ship, followed up with an eye checkup.

I can think of more Im sure. Notice i skipped gun safety lol.

I'm thinking the same thing.

I know a lot of people that sure as hell should not be carrying a gun...but if they go through the course and pass the "test" do they get to? Scary to think to say the least.

The test I took over a year ago is a JOKE, the only people who fail cant read english. The other portion that failed couldnt qualify on the range which was also a joke, and most of them havent shot a gun before. It was definetly eye opening and IMO is more reason to protect yourself, bad guys and idiots are ALWAYS going to have guns reguardless of the law

[Ricky]

Im taking the class on feb 8th. All you need to do is have a clean record and take the 4 hour class.

the only thing i dont agree with is that you dont have to take a shooting test.... I think you should have to show you can shoot your target.

Also i agree with trevor, If you are carrying then nobody else show know about it. Dont talk about it and show go waving it around.

I think a lot of people are blowing things up about the gun law. The honest people are not going to be walking around shooting people. They want to carrry a gun because they know just like everyone else... "when seconds count, the police are minutes away"

[Xboosted23X]

A guy came into work with a tactical vest on and a couple guns on him. This guy took it a little overboard I would say.
I think a shooting test should be a must. And the sheriff should have final say. I know before some counties were really strict. And other really lax.

[SaNdMaNsSi]

A guy came into work with a tactical vest on and a couple guns on him. This guy took it a little overboard I would say.
I think a shooting test should be a must. And the sheriff should have final say. I know before some counties were really strict. And other really lax.


I definitely think that there should be a shooting qualification test. What I don't understand is the constant fear mongering especially on KCRG. If you think about it, there are plenty of barely high school educated people driving around in black and whites with a superiority complex toting guns every day. I would rather a responsible citizen who is afraid to pull a gun have one under their coat than a nuts dragging officer ready to use his. That's just my opinion.

My only disagreement with your comment is that the Sheriff should have discretion: I completely disagree. Any Sheriff interviewed said they would like discretion to weed out the "bad" people to put it short. In reality, they wanted to control EVERYONE. They only pretend now that they would protect us from the "bad" people getting guns- In Linn county we had the same Sheriff forever, and he blatantly said that he would never allow anyone for any reason to get a concealed carry license. A very select few got them, and usually because they found a way to twist his arm. I am extremely glad they took away that power from the Sheriff. However, again, there should absolutely be an accuracy qualification test as well as a drug test.

[Drifte]

Yea, drug test (all drugs...which one is good?!), accuracy test, psychiatric exam.

[SaNdMaNsSi]

Yea, drug test (all drugs...which one is good?!), accuracy test, psychiatric exam.

Rectal exam??

[JustinS]

I think they got way to lax on the law. Taking the sheriffs out of it is a stupid idea.
An eye site and drug test would be a good idea. If a criminal wants a gun the law isn't going to stop him.
I think to many people are getting carry permits just cuz they can.
I just hope people are smart enough to use common sense. (doubt it)
Just because you can carry and drink doesn't mean its a good idea.
The sheriff's were not taken out of the equation entirely. The new law just prevents them from projecting their personal beliefs on the application process. The new law wouldn't have been necessary if sheriff's had been issuing permits like they were supposed to instead of denying permits because 'no one should carry but law enforcement.'

Dubuque, Johnson, Story and many other sheriff's wouldn't issue a permit to anyone no matter if they passed the background or not, THEY are the cause for the new law and the bitchy sheriff's have no one to blame but themsleves.

[JustinS]

And for what's it worth if you carry and drink...you're a dumbass and opening yourself up to a major liability.

[Ricky]

Yea, drug test (all drugs...which one is good?!), accuracy test, psychiatric exam.


i agree.

I plan on going to the range a lot and doing a lot of shooting. Its going to be expensive shooting round after round but i want to make sure i know how to use it and know i can hit my target.

I know i will pass a drug test so know worries there. But i can see the point of the statement. The problem is we dont drug test any but people looking for jobs... even the government hands out money to people every week without a drug test so i dont see this happening.

[Ricky]

the old carry law is that you CAN NOT have any alcohol in your system when you carry.

The new law states you have to be under 0.08

You know people will carry when drunk (they drive drunk)

I feel like some people are blowing this up and making it a bigger deal then it should be. we are all new to this law and im sure in a year or two they will start adding a few more requirements based on things that happen within the next year. I really doubt anyone is going to hear too much about someone going nuts and killing people just cuz they have a carry permit. The guns are not getting easier to by. You can get any gun you want right now... why whould someone that wants to cause harm pay $100 to take a class? Criminals are criminals and laws wont stop them.

[Drifte]

Yea, drug test (all drugs...which one is good?!), accuracy test, psychiatric exam.


i agree.

I plan on going to the range a lot and doing a lot of shooting. Its going to be expensive shooting round after round but i want to make sure i know how to use it and know i can hit my target.

I know i will pass a drug test so know worries there. But i can see the point of the statement. The problem is we dont drug test any but people looking for jobs... even the government hands out money to people every week without a drug test so i dont see this happening.
Just reminded me of another thing I dont like happening. Give me a drug test to better my life, but if I want to leach off others or shoot up the neighbor hood, hand outs are acceptable.

[Ricky]

here is the requirements

* Must Be at least 21 Years Old
* Has not been convicted of a felony
* Has not been convicted of any crime of violence
* Has not been convicted of any offense involving the use of alchohol
* Has not been convicted of any offense involving the unlawful use of narcotics or other controlled substances
* Has not been convicted of any offense involving moral turpitude
* Has not been convicted of any offense involving domestic violence
* Has not been adjuticated by a court of a state or the United States as mentally incompetent, unless the adjutication has been withdrawn or reversed

[JustinS]

Those requirements are what they have always been, nothing new there as far as I know. The media sure is trying it's damnedest to make everyone believe there aren't any disqualifications.

[Xboosted23X]

I think they should drug test for well-fare also. And make them pay the test, and if they pass get reimbursed. Maybe its just a crazy idea.
I know my previous county would hand out carry permits, and cedar county sheriff was easy to pass out. I agree that they should turn everyone away that isn't a law officer.

[JustinS]

I agree that they should turn everyone away that isn't a law officer.
did you forget some letters or do you actually think that?

[Xboosted23X]

sorry I wrote this right before my nap. I'm getting old. Yes I forgot letters. They shouldn't turn away everyone that isn't a cop.

[JustinS]

I was going to say lol

[Roosterk0031]

Knowing from experinece carrying a handgun is a pain, even with the best holsters I it give it a year and it will be back to the same 1-2% that carry today will be actually be smaller percentage wise. Will be 3-4x as many people licensed but they wont' be carriing other than special occosions, I think 1/4 of the new permit holders will be just because they can road hunt (drive down any road for that matter) with every gun the own loaded right beside them. 2 years from now (discounting hunting) it will be back to almost the same 1-2% we started with except for the few counties that didn't license anyone before the new law.

Weapon carriers (myself included) won't be coming to Zac or anyone elses rescue at a stoplight. I carry for myself and my family only. I'm not going to get involved in what appears as a car jacking. Could just as lickly be a Pedofile with someone elses kid in his back seat and the real dad comming to the rescue, I'll watch, I'll follow, but won't get involved untill I'm getting shot at, and that won't happen if my wife or kids are with me as I'll be 100 yards away.

This whole thing is just blown out of proportion, are Iowan so much more uncivilied, drugged up, psycotic than the other 30+ states that have already done what Iowa has finally. Nothing goning to happen, sure a few Open Carry displays will happen at Applebees. Criminals won't be going to the sherif's office to fill out a form to get a permit, or pay $100 to take a course to get a permit to carry a weapon while comminting a crime.

But what everyone one gains is the uncertainting in that criminals won't know who's armed, that makes them nervous and give all of us an edge.

David

[ZacFields]

The problem is that we're talking about gun laws, but the real problem are the people out there who buy guns illegally and don't register them.

We can do shooting tests... crazy expensive psychiatric tests, drug tests, etc etc. At the end of the day, all you're doing is preventing more people with good intentions from having a gun. So a guy does weed... maybe it's a good idea for him to have a gun, because you know his drug dealer does.

David, I'm not offended that you wouldn't help me if I were being car-jacked but that makes you and I two completely different people. If I see a clear crime happening that I have the ability to do something about, I'll do it. If that means I pull out my pistol and point it at someone's forehead until the situation is resolved, I'd gladly do it.

I do agree with your last point though, with strict gun laws, Criminals are the kings of the night. They know they can go anywhere and do what ever they want, because you don't have a gun and they do. They know they can break into anyone's house and get whatever because nobody has anything to defend themselves. After a few thieves show up in peoples' living rooms with a bullet through the back of their head, people will think twice before breaking into someone's home in the middle of the night and that is a real measurable benefit.

[Roosterk0031]

Only clear crime is a gas station or bank robbery, any other time how much do you really know. Maybe I'm chicken, maybe I'm wise, but I'm not sticking my neck out to save someone else's money or car. If I see a violent crime, I really don't know how I'd react or what I'd do. I shoot quite a bit, have been thru some training, shoot handgun matches, know the law, but when there even the threat of someone else shooting at me, I don't know.

But I agree all the laws, drug test, shooting test, written exam's, mental exams, training courses, fingerprints, background checks ect.. all those do is ensure that only the most law abidding people who are willing to jump thru all the loops and have enought money are the only ones legally carring a firearm to protect themself.

There was a guy who wrote a article that basically follow your feelings of we need to kill a few to send a message to the rest, he was pretty convincing.

[LT1Dan]

Knowing from experinece carrying a handgun is a pain, even with the best holsters I it give it a year and it will be back to the same 1-2% that carry today will be actually be smaller percentage wise. Will be 3-4x as many people licensed but they wont' be carriing other than special occosions, I think 1/4 of the new permit holders will be just because they can road hunt (drive down any road for that matter) with every gun the own loaded right beside them. 2 years from now (discounting hunting) it will be back to almost the same 1-2% we started with except for the few counties that didn't license anyone before the new law.

Weapon carriers (myself included) won't be coming to Zac or anyone elses rescue at a stoplight. I carry for myself and my family only. I'm not going to get involved in what appears as a car jacking. Could just as lickly be a Pedofile with someone elses kid in his back seat and the real dad comming to the rescue, I'll watch, I'll follow, but won't get involved untill I'm getting shot at, and that won't happen if my wife or kids are with me as I'll be 100 yards away.

This whole thing is just blown out of proportion, are Iowan so much more uncivilied, drugged up, psycotic than the other 30+ states that have already done what Iowa has finally. Nothing goning to happen, sure a few Open Carry displays will happen at Applebees. Criminals won't be going to the sherif's office to fill out a form to get a permit, or pay $100 to take a course to get a permit to carry a weapon while comminting a crime.

But what everyone one gains is the uncertainting in that criminals won't know who's armed, that makes them nervous and give all of us an edge.

David

I'm 100% with you on the bolded part above. ^^

Say you see two drunk guys fighting in the street and drunk guy #1 jumps up and pulls a gun on drunk guy #2. You decide to do something about it while you're carrying. You go over there point your gun at drunk guy #1 and tell him to put his down. All of a sudden drunk guy #2 jumps up pulls a gun and yells at you "Who the F&%$ are you and why are you pointing a gun at my BROTHERS head?!?" Now what have you gotten yourself into?

Getting into other peoples business, especially with a gun, is never a good idea.

I agree there should be drug testing and a shooting test as well. The shooting test may not of been tough last year but I did see a lady get dq'ed because she had no idea how to handle a gun. I think the new way is too lenient because people like her are never going to figure out they aren't educated enough to carry until it's (possibly) too late.

As far as open carry I think the only people doing it will be people who want to try to intimidate people and act like Billy Bad Ass. If I'm a violent criminal and I'm going to rob someplace they would never know what hit them.

Xboosted23x, Was that guy in the tactical vest in Cedar Rapids?

[LT1Dan]

I know they still do fingerprinting for your permit and I'm pretty sure a background check is still standard.

[Xboosted23X]

yeah cedar rapids sw side.

[LT1Dan]

Crazy. I'll have to keep an eye out for him...I live on the SW side.

[TbTalon94]

Weapon carriers (myself included) won't be coming to Zac or anyone elses rescue at a stoplight. I carry for myself and my family only. I'm not going to get involved in what appears as a car jacking. Could just as lickly be a Pedofile with someone elses kid in his back seat and the real dad comming to the rescue, I'll watch, I'll follow, but won't get involved untill I'm getting shot at, and that won't happen if my wife or kids are with me as I'll be 100 yards away.

David

I agree completely with this statement, and this is how all carries should think. It's smart. You don't shoot and ask questions later. That should be the number one rule. Unless someone's life is truly endanger then the firearm stays in the holster. If you are worried about a situation you should step back and assess it from all angles and follow what is going on. Can't be too quick to just draw and enter yourself into a situation that could be bad for not only you but everyone around you.

[96-eclipse-gst]

I don't think anyone can say for sure, I would do this or I would do that. In intense situations you react in many different ways. I can say that when I carry, I will most likely have the same mindset as Roosterk0031. Law abiding citizens will not be pulling handguns out left and right, I will stay back and assess the situation keeping myself within distance to react until the situation calls for action, the situations de-escalates, or police show up. I think if you see something going down, to turn the cheek and ignore it, is to simply allow crime to happen.

I would never condone jumping in to action, but to remove yourself completely would be a mistake.

[TbTalon94]

The problem is different people have different judgements. We can all say we would do this and do that...but in reality when it hits people jump to conclusions and do the wrong thing. Having a firearm may give some people a different attitude when it comes to figuring out what exactly is going on and what to do.

Honestly the firearm should never be drawn ever unless A: your life or someone else's life is in immediate danger (such as a weapon drawn against them, animal attack, etc.) B: A high risk situation is at hand and you have the clear opportunity to supress the situation without causing harm to yourself or others (bank robbery, etc.)

Obviously option B is a fine line, and should be treated on lightly because different people will constitute what a "clear opportunity" means.

[Drifte]

My cell phone is my weapon. I creep in the background.

I dont own A gun, let alone enough guns to necessitate a GUN RACK (or permit to carry).

[Ricky]

In a year nobody will talk about it because it will be the norm. Just cuz you have a permit doesn't mean you are going to start pulling it out on people.

Let me rephrase that.... I will not be going around pulling it out. I hope the people to take time to take the class and learn the law and gun safety will do the same but you will always have the odd ball people that will.

I hope to never pull my gun or ever use it on someone. It would be my last resort if i had to. With that said i know i could use it if i truly felt in danger. There are crazier and crazier people out there just waiting to snap and things are happening randomly now just because someone doesn't something. I will not let myself become a victim of any of those 1 in 1,000,000 chances.

[biohazard]

In a year nobody will talk about it because it will be the norm. Just cuz you have a permit doesn't mean you are going to start pulling it out on people.

Let me rephrase that.... I will not be going around pulling it out. I hope the people to take time to take the class and learn the law and gun safety will do the same but you will always have the odd ball people that will.

I hope to never pull my gun or ever use it on someone. It would be my last resort if i had to. With that said i know i could use it if i truly felt in danger. There are crazier and crazier people out there just waiting to snap and things are happening randomly now just because someone doesn't something. I will not let myself become a victim of any of those 1 in 1,000,000 chances.

I agree 100%, I hope I never have to pull my gun.

[black88gt]

I don't think anyone can say for sure, I would do this or I would do that. In intense situations you react in many different ways. I can say that when I carry, I will most likely have the same mindset as Roosterk0031. Law abiding citizens will not be pulling handguns out left and right, I will stay back and assess the situation keeping myself within distance to react until the situation calls for action, the situations de-escalates, or police show up. I think if you see something going down, to turn the cheek and ignore it, is to simply allow crime to happen.

I would never condone jumping in to action, but to remove yourself completely would be a mistake.

This confuses me. You would watch from a safe distance and not take action is what I got out of it. Either you act or you dont, "I could have but didnt" doesnt matter, you still did nothing. You say you wouldnt condone taking action but you also say to do nothing is to simply allow the crime to happen?

[96-eclipse-gst]

No you interpreted it incorrectly. I'm saying I will not jump in to a situation without first assessing what is happening. Like was said before. Rooster commented about Zac's post. How would rooster know if Zac is being car jacked. Or if Zac is a pedophile stealing a car with a child in it. I'm simply saying I will assess the situation before jumping in to action and potentially causing more harm than good.

It's like judging a book by its cover. You think the man outside the car is a car jacker. When in reality he is a father, who's car is being stolen with his child in it. If you react immediately, lets say you pull your gun and shoot the man. You just shot an innocent person who was simply trying to save his child.

Like I said, I don't condone JUMPING in to action. Assess the situation and then decide your course of action. Please don't take my words and twist them.

[sparkles]

A guy came into work with a tactical vest on and a couple guns on him. This guy took it a little overboard I would say.
I think a shooting test should be a must. And the sheriff should have final say. I know before some counties were really strict. And other really lax.


I definitely think that there should be a shooting qualification test. What I don't understand is the constant fear mongering especially on KCRG. If you think about it, there are plenty of barely high school educated people driving around in black and whites with a superiority complex toting guns every day. I would rather a responsible citizen who is afraid to pull a gun have one under their coat than a nuts dragging officer ready to use his. That's just my opinion.

My only disagreement with your comment is that the Sheriff should have discretion: I completely disagree. Any Sheriff interviewed said they would like discretion to weed out the "bad" people to put it short. In reality, they wanted to control EVERYONE. They only pretend now that they would protect us from the "bad" people getting guns- In Linn county we had the same Sheriff forever, and he blatantly said that he would never allow anyone for any reason to get a concealed carry license. A very select few got them, and usually because they found a way to twist his arm. I am extremely glad they took away that power from the Sheriff. However, again, there should absolutely be an accuracy qualification test as well as a drug test.

Completely agree.

[sparkles]

Question:
So, if you are already in a "shall be issued" county before the new laws, are you still required to take a coarse that has a qualifying portion to it, or a coarse at all? Or are they just giving out permits to anyone that wants one and is legal to own a pistol?

[JustinS]

Training has to have been completed in the previous twelve months before you apply for your permit, no matter what county you are in. If you are renewing you can shoot to requal or sit through another course.

[LT1Dan]

You still have to take a course to get a permit. It's just class time no shooting test.

[ZacFields]

It surprises me that the question of "how would I know Zac is being carjacked" has come up. Really guys? How many different ways are there in this world to carjack somebody? If I'm sitting at a stop light next to you and a guy runs up next to my car with a gun pointed at me yelling "get out of the car," that's a safe bet I'm getting car-jacked. If you're going to sit there and spin ridiculous excuses to me like "the driver of the car might be a pedophile who stole the car with somebody's kid inside" you just need to give up right now. If you're going rationalize it that way, then there's no sense in you ever carrying a gun.

When did I say anyone should whip out their gun and fire a few rounds into the carjacker? You can use a gun to diffuse a situation without firing a shot... trust me on this one, as I have been directly in the middle of an event where a pistol was pulled out and pointed just to diffuse a dangerous situation. I know very well how this works and how people react to it.

Of course you should use judgment before whipping out your gun, but if you can tell me with a straight face that if you saw someone in clear, life-threatening trouble, and you wouldn't step in to help them, then IMO you have no business carrying or concealing because you're probably not going to pull it out to defend yourself, either. There's nothing wrong with that viewpoint, but you're just not a very good candidate to bother with guns in the first place.

Listen, I grew up around guns. My father is a gun collector and I've been shooting them since I was a little kid. I was taught gun safety at a very young age. I respect guns and their power. Don't insult me by telling me it'd be irresponsible for me to step in with a gun to diffuse a dangerous situation. That's about as backward-ass as I could imagine. This is the problem with our society today... we've got police officers, so we would all rather watch someone get beaten or raped than to step in and do what's right because "that's not our job, somebody else will do it." Reminds me of some of these union jobs where a guy can't sweep up a mess on the floor because "there's a guy for that." It's fine if you wouldn't do it yourself, but don't tell me that it'd be irresponsible for me to do it. If I want to take that risk to help save a person's life, that's my own business.

[LT1Dan]

Training has to have been completed in the previous twelve months before you apply for your permit, no matter what county you are in. If you are renewing you can shoot to requal or sit through another course.

I was curious about the re-qualifying part. Any idea where you can go to shoot to reup?

[ZacFields]

No you interpreted it incorrectly. I'm saying I will not jump in to a situation without first assessing what is happening. Like was said before. Rooster commented about Zac's post. How would rooster know if Zac is being car jacked. Or if Zac is a pedophile stealing a car with a child in it. I'm simply saying I will assess the situation before jumping in to action and potentially causing more harm than good.

It's like judging a book by its cover. You think the man outside the car is a car jacker. When in reality he is a father, who's car is being stolen with his child in it. If you react immediately, lets say you pull your gun and shoot the man. You just shot an innocent person who was simply trying to save his child.

Like I said, I don't condone JUMPING in to action. Assess the situation and then decide your course of action. Please don't take my words and twist them.

At some point, whether it was you or someone else here, someone saw where I said if i were being carjacked, someone with a gun could "help me out" and decided that that meant I said you should whip out your piece and shoot somebody. Those words did not exist in my post.

I haven't read every response in detail, but I know at least I didn't say a word about firing off into a carjacker. The best thing you can do with a gun in a situation like that is see if you can diffuse it without firing the weapon. Personally, I think that's just common sense at its finest. You don't want to take anyone's life, or even injure anyone unless you know there's no other way.

We're getting way too wishy-washy about this topic. There's absolutely nothing wrong with saying you wouldn't jump in to help, especially if you have your family with you and you don't want to put them in danger. But shit guys, I didn't say anything about you having your family around or about the driver of the car actually being a bad guy... we're making this wayyyyy too difficult. Of course there are a million reasons you could choose not to do it but do we have to list them off here? The driver of the car might be a murderous alien and if you shoot the carjacker, he will rise up and take over the world. Come on now. lol

[Roosterk0031]

I think the sheriff's should have continuted to offer a training course. Nobody has any fear of going to Gander Mountian or where ever to take a class. I'd rather everyone have to go thru the sheriff, and he has to offer a class once or twice a month depending on #'s signing up, pay a reasonible cost in the $20-30 range, not priced it out of the ability of some. That way the sheriff or more likely a deputy gets exposed to everyone that wants a permit even if just briefly.

I also dislike that private people are profiting from offering way overpriced classes to allow us the privelge of carrying a weapon. $100 for 4 hours should be 1 on 2-4 training, not 1 in 20. It's a rip off and I'll do the $30 NRA pistol course because I've already done Iowa and Utah courses.

I think the current system of the sheriff having the ability to block someone is OK, but before there was no way to challenge him. Now if he blocks you he has to explain why in writing, not just because he wants to and you can appeal it. And the old system with the sheriff being able to add restrictions, they were worthless other than for permit to purchase that only cost $5 per year and automatically renewed.

Regarding renewal, if you already have a permit you can requalify but it has to be a LEO or certified trainer who requalifys you and it's only good for 5 years, in 5 years you have to retake the course. Take the course now, in 5 years you can do a IDPA or USPSA match for your requalification and be good till the next 5 years. Most Iowa clubs offer 1st match is free(doubt if they remember you 5 years later, but I won't be surpized if they drop the 1st match free thing), just keep your score sheet as proof and you'll be good to go, $12-$15 is the usuall match fee.

Drifte, I got a good first handgun for you, Walther P22 target, great gun, but my kids like the Glock better so want a 22lr kit for it.

[ZacFields]

^22's are a good first handgun. Virtually no kick to it, and while it's still dangerous it's much less lethal than the bigger handguns. I had a lot of fun when I was younger shooting 22 rifles and pistols. And actually over Thanksgiving this year we were out shooting targets on some land my family owns with my grandpa's 22 rifle. Even big kids enjoy them :)

[96-eclipse-gst]

I would agree Zac, yes we did get off subject a bit. While Rooster and I used that hypothetical situation, U would assume we both understand how far fetched it is, it was simply to state to assess the situation.

If I were in traffic behind you, watching someone running to your car with a weapon, you can bet I would certainly be out of my vehicle, weapon drawn. At that point, its clear this person is committing a crime.

[ZacFields]

Sorry to kind of "fly off the handle" with those last couple posts - I just think that you get a concealed weapons license (or carrying weapons license) because you're willing to use that weapon in the right situation. While I believe it should be a RIGHT to own and carry weapons, I also think if everybody were willing to help someone in need, it would be a very different world we live in.

There was nothing wrong with Rooster saying that he carries a weapon for himself and his family. That's his choice and that is fine. I like the feeling you get when you help someone, and I can't even imagine the high you'd get if you took the opportunity to save someone's life. I'd jump in front of a speeding car if it would prevent a kid from getting run over.

When I was about 5 years old, my mom and one of her friends took me to a beach at a lake in Mississippi. My dad dropped the three of us off and he was coming back in an hour. This was before cell phones, btw. Towards the end of our hour, three black men approached my mom and started harassing her. They were saying sexual things and when she chose to ignore them, one of the men told her that she was "about to get the beating of her lifetime." I will NEVER forget those words. Mom scooped me up and brought me to the parking lot so we could wait for my dad. The three men followed us to the parking lot and they were still talking to us and getting more militant by the minute. My dad showed up and my mom quickly put me in the car and got in the car herself. At this point, the three men were directly outside her window yelling into the car "Where you going" and pulling on the locked door. At this point, my dad opened the glove box where his holstered 9 millimeter has always sat. He got out of the car and pointed it directly at the three men.

Instantly, situation dissolved. The three men backed off, and my dad got in the car and we left. Of course they were still pissed off and shouted obscenities as we drove off, but the important part was no shots were fired, and they backed off so we could leave. Granted, this was in Mississippi. You guys who have lived up here in Iowa all your life have no idea what real crime is. I don't mean that to be offensive... you are lucky to be where you are. Down in Columbus, Mississippi, crap like that happens so often that it doesn't even make the news. Around here, that situation would probably be on the front page of the Gazette.

My dad describes that as the one and only time he's ever pulled a weapon on someone after he got out of the military.

[sparkles]

I think the sheriff's should have continuted to offer a training course. Nobody has any fear of going to Gander Mountian or where ever to take a class. I'd rather everyone have to go thru the sheriff, and he has to offer a class once or twice a month depending on #'s signing up, pay a reasonible cost in the $20-30 range, not priced it out of the ability of some. That way the sheriff or more likely a deputy gets exposed to everyone that wants a permit even if just briefly.

I also dislike that private people are profiting from offering way overpriced classes to allow us the privelge of carrying a weapon. $100 for 4 hours should be 1 on 2-4 training, not 1 in 20. It's a rip off and I'll do the $30 NRA pistol course because I've already done Iowa and Utah courses.



Most classes I'm seeing are anywhere from $45-75. I think that's pretty reasonable. Granted I haven't taken the coarse yet to be able to say whether it's worth the money or not. I'm signed up for the 12th.

To put it into perspective though, I have to take 18 hours of continuing education for the state to maintain my Electrical license. The CHEAPEST class I have found is $100 for 6 hours of class. That's a minimum of $300 for 3 years PLUS the State's fees. And you know what I really actually learned in most of the classes I've taken over the years? That most of the instructors don't like the state taking over licensing. Just a bunch of pissing, moaning, and groaning. Not a whole lot of teaching anything. I feel ripped off every time I leave and realize that I just paid all that money to drink free coffee and piss my Saturday away. So $50 and someone explaining to me how to avoid being thrown in jail for doing something I shouldn't have is well worth it IMO.

[Roosterk0031]

Do I have to pay for my 1st admentment right to speak here or anywere, do I have to take a writing class to do it. So I dislike having to pay to utilize my 2nd admendment rights either. Yeah a few toilets meet a early demise, few guys will shoot themselfs in their car/truck' but not much else happens.

I know some will think I'm of over the top in this aspect, but I don't like puting a price tag on the ability to protect yourself. I'm 100% behind Alaska, Vermont or Arizona, no permit required. Legal to own a gun legal to carry one. Its up to me to know the laws and be safe.

[sparkles]

Well, unfortunately not everyone is as smart or has as much common sense as you do. To me, I don't mind people having to take a coarse in order to carry a weapon on them in public places. It weeds out the people that really don't need to be carrying a loaded gun around. The last thing I wanna do is be standing in the grocery store line with my kids, and some idiot behind me accidentally discharges his piece in his underwear strap because he's too big of a moron to know better. If a short, cheap, professional coarse could prevent stuff like this, I'm all for it.

This isn't the 1700s anymore if you didn't get the memo. We're not living in a constant state of worry about another country coming over and taking our freedom away from us. There's no duels going down at High Noon. Killing animals for food has become more of a "recreational" activity. My point being this, so don't confused and twist it around like everything else on the internet. The needs for individuals carrying a sidearm is NOWHERE near where it was 235 years ago. Not a whole lot of sons are taught by their Pa since they were knee high to a grasshopper on proper gun etiquette. I don't think making people take a $50 class to make sure they are at least given the opportunity to know the correct way to handle and carry a deadly weapon is too much to ask.

[DustinsDuster]

Charlton Heston is my president.

[SaNdMaNsSi]

Charlton Heston is my president.

This.

[Scott]

Do I have to pay for my 1st admentment right to speak here or anywere, do I have to take a writing class to do it. So I dislike having to pay to utilize my 2nd admendment rights either. Yeah a few toilets meet a early demise, few guys will shoot themselfs in their car/truck' but not much else happens.

I know some will think I'm of over the top in this aspect, but I don't like puting a price tag on the ability to protect yourself. I'm 100% behind Alaska, Vermont or Arizona, no permit required. Legal to own a gun legal to carry one. Its up to me to know the laws and be safe.

I hear ya on that one, but if you seen some of the people trying to carry a gun you would be very glad that there is someone teaching them where the safety is!! Yes people are that stupid where they will carry a gun without knowing how to use it at all and are in need of serious help.

[TbTalon94]

That's what I was trying to get accross earlier when I said I know PLENTY of people that should not be anywhere near a gun let alone be able to conceal/carry one after taking a $100 class. It's sad to say but the world is absolutly stocked full of complete morons that should not even know what a gun is let alone use one.

It's bad to say but I giggled a little when Sparkles said a guy discharging his firearm in his underwear strap because he's to big a moron to know better. I laugh because it's funny what he said....BUT it's the damn truth.

From what Ricky was telling me there won't be any shooting at the class. Who knows if they will even get to handle one. That right there shows me they aren't taking this too seriously and just chalking it up to the 2nd ammendment right to bear arms.

Just like sparkles said, times aren't like they were 235 years ago. BUUUT then you could look at religious people and they still follow/believe the same shit that was written thousands of years ago like it applies today. Again, world is filled with morons.

[Scott]

True that, I would like to think placing more responsibility on the people will speed up the process of natural selection and Im all for that. People hear so much bad stuff about guns that they're afraid to handle/shoot one but then they jump at the chance to carry one even though they wont go to a shooting range. Back when I took my class over a year ago we had to shoot to qualify and more than half the people in the class havent shot a hand gun prior to signing up for the class. Even higher percentage couldnt pass the shooting test and it was only like 7-10 yards!!

[Xboosted23X]

um hold on here. the 2nd amendment is to carry guys. I thought it was to bear arms.

[Roosterk0031]

I think shade tree uncertified mechanics should be illegal to work on cars driven on public streets. Become ASME certififed or take it to somewone who is. I'd bet I'm more likely killed by a car serviced but an uncertifed mechanic than a trained or untrained weapon carrier.

[sparkles]

Actually, if a mechanic lets an unsafe car back on the road and it's involved in an accident because of something they did or inspected and found fault with, they ARE liable. In any case, apples to oranges. Nice try though.

[Roosterk0031]

Didn't know that about mechanics, I was being sarcastic in my last post, ones a right, the other a privledge.

My point is the odds of anyone being injured in a car by someone else's negligence are 100 times maybe 1000 times more likely than injury by a negligent discharge by someone else even in those uncivilized wild states than don't require any permit or training to carry.

Really I'm ok with training provided by the county sheriff'/deputies we already pay, who better to teach us, and by teaching they'll learn more about the laws and the people who may be carrying around them, 2nd admendment isn't just for those who can afford it.

Air bags have also stopped natural slection way too abruptly as

[sparkles]

I will respectfully disagree with your "statistics" if you're still referring to the mechanic theory. Not to mention, the difference is that at least in a car, I have a seat belt, air bags, government mandated crash testing, non shatter glass, able to take evasive measures to avoid collision possibly, etc, etc, etc. If some dummy decides he wants to be all John Wayne because it's his "right", I don't have much to protect myself short of wearing a bullet proof vest around.

I'm pretty sure I've made my point, so I'll leave it at that. Pretty soon, I'm going to start sounding like an Obama loving, gun hating, Zeitgeist watching, lunitic on this argument. All in all, I'm glad that there's at least SOME requirements as far as training for CCW permits.

[Roosterk0031]

Nevermind

[sparkles]

I thought we were talking about shops putting out vehicles improperly repaired? Stay on point dude. Besides, last I checked, you have to take a class to drive a car too :yawinkle: Privilege vs right is what I thought your argument was.

Should we get rid of driver education then? You act like there's no such thing as the law of probability. How many people are out there carrying vs people on the road. Of coarse there would be more deaths. It's in the numbers.

[allgo]

I'm pretty sure I can find how many people are killed daily in car's,(based on yearly averages) good luck finding anyond killed by a legal carrier of a firearm. You find one person killled tomorrow(1/24/11) by a legally carried firearm, I'll find 100 people are klilled by legally liceneed drivers if I carred enough, but I don't cause I know I'm right.

\stupid point there are 10 billion cars on the road and how many gunslingers

[Roosterk0031]

nevermind

[sparkles]

Dude, you are just all over the place. Do you even have a point? You started out by bitching that people have to take a class. Now you're saying that 95% of cars on the road are going to kill me. Quote me, hate me for it, whatever you want, but if you think that having someone that's wanting to carry a weapon, designed for killing, out in public, take a short little $50 class is wrong and stupid, then sir, you are an idiot.

I WANT people to exercise their 2nd amendment rights. If we don't, we're gonna lose it. Period. What the hell is wrong with wanting them to have a little training and education first. I've got 3 kids and a family of my own, so don't act like you're something special man. You ought to be bitching that it's too easy, IMO. $50 and 4 hours. No test, no qualification, no brains? Hell, I even heard you don't even have to GO to a class. You can take it online evidently.

You're method of thinking is flawed I'm afraid. Willing people should be allowed to carry a weapon on them AND know the proper way to do it as well as the laws. Last thing I wanna do is send more of my tax money to pay for people to sit in jail because they didn't know what the law was concerning their rights.

[JJ240]

Should be a shooting test. Not that it really matters because 90% of the people who weren't capable of passing a shooting test won't be able to handle carrying on a daily basis. Card carriers vs people actually carrying divide is going to grow massive amounts. And I'm another person who won't be drawing unless its my ass or someone I care abouts ass on the line. Drawing a weapon rarely diffuses a situation, it escalates it. And I'm not interested in involving myself and escalating a situation in which my sack isn't on the chopping block. Furtermore any situtation where you defend yourself with a firearm is a situation you're very likely to get sued for afterwards. I don't know about everyone else, but I'm not willing to risk everything I own to defend someone else, when they can go get their own permit to carry. I don't wanna be a superhero and save people, I want people to be able to have the opportunity to be responsible and save themselves.


just read through everything, thats kind of a blanket response to a few things I read.

[SaNdMaNsSi]

Should be a shooting test. Not that it really matters because 90% of the people who weren't capable of passing a shooting test won't be able to handle carrying on a daily basis. Card carriers vs people actually carrying divide is going to grow massive amounts. And I'm another person who won't be drawing unless its my ass or someone I care abouts ass on the line. Drawing a weapon rarely diffuses a situation, it escalates it. And I'm not interested in involving myself and escalating a situation in which my sack isn't on the chopping block. Furtermore any situtation where you defend yourself with a firearm is a situation you're very likely to get sued for afterwards. I don't know about everyone else, but I'm not willing to risk everything I own to defend someone else, when they can go get their own permit to carry. I don't wanna be a superhero and save people, I want people to be able to have the opportunity to be responsible and save themselves.


just read through everything, thats kind of a blanket response to a few things I read.

Well you might be in luck: They are trying to pass the castle law in Iowa so that if you do pull your gun and blow away some moron on your property, they can't sue you.

[Ricky]

i went to an indoor range friday to get some practice in. Before friday i had only shot a .22 hand gun. I know how to shoot since i have been shooting rifles since i was 8.

I bought the same target they used to use for qualifying and put it at the same distance. I used a 9mm first and was dead nuts on after a few shots.

I then used a 357 magnum and oh my god that gun is fun! The first shot was off a little but still hit the target. after two shots i had mad the adjustments i needed and put the next 8 shots 3 inchs from each other and right dead center.

I highly suggest people who get a hand gun to shoot it. Each gun and type shoot a lot different.

[Scott]

i went to an indoor range friday to get some practice in. Before friday i had only shot a .22 hand gun. I know how to shoot since i have been shooting rifles since i was 8.

I bought the same target they used to use for qualifying and put it at the same distance. I used a 9mm first and was dead nuts on after a few shots.

I then used a 357 magnum and oh my god that gun is fun! The first shot was off a little but still hit the target. after two shots i had mad the adjustments i needed and put the next 8 shots 3 inchs from each other and right dead center.

I highly suggest people who get a hand gun to shoot it. Each gun and type shoot a lot different.

Definetly! Im sure most people reading this are aware of the differences in hand guns but some people dont actually realize how different they can actually feel, shoot, and operate! Theres plenty of free outdoor ranges around here and I know Izac Walton league has a indoor handgun range for a membership fee. SHOOT the dam thing, take it apart and assemble it a million times, dry fire it a million times "with ammo in a different room hopefully" to get familiar with it.

[TbTalon94]

So i had a dream last night that I went to the class and was the first one there. Sat in the very back and watched a bunch of crazy hookers and whacko guys walk into the room and sit down. Were even some young kids that looked like they shouldn't even be walking let alone carrying a gun lol.

I ended up falling asleep in the class and woke up at a different desk and underneath my arms was the "certificate" that i passed the class and could carry.

Let's hope it's not like that!!

[Scott]

So i had a dream last night that I went to the class and was the first one there. Sat in the very back and watched a bunch of crazy hookers and whacko guys walk into the room and sit down. Were even some young kids that looked like they shouldn't even be walking let alone carrying a gun lol.

I ended up falling asleep in the class and woke up at a different desk and underneath my arms was the "certificate" that i passed the class and could carry.

Let's hope it's not like that!!

Not far from it!! You can learn some things in the class but you dont need much more than a slight hint of a brain to pass the test, good luck

[Ricky]

So i had a dream last night that I went to the class and was the first one there. Sat in the very back and watched a bunch of crazy hookers and whacko guys walk into the room and sit down. Were even some young kids that looked like they shouldn't even be walking let alone carrying a gun lol.

I ended up falling asleep in the class and woke up at a different desk and underneath my arms was the "certificate" that i passed the class and could carry.

Let's hope it's not like that!!


HAHA! I just pictured a baby crawling around with a gun tucked into its diaper!

[Ricky]

Guy tried to break into my house last night. He was fucked up on something and wouldn't respond to me. He started to bang his head on the front door and kept trying to get in. Cops came fast! (like less then a minute after i called) he tried to run when he saw the cop but tripped in the snow. Cop pulled his gun and he stopped. i had my .22 rifle pulled inside the house, along with the shads pulled and lights inside the house off. He wasn't damaging anything or seem violent. I doubt he would have made it inside the house but if he would have he would have had a really bad night.

Like i said before, Shit happens sometimes and its best to be ready if you need to. Concealed carry class Tuesday :)

[DustinsDuster]

crazy to think about, but on the cops response time, i swear if you sit around J st or miller ave, it wont take much longer than 10 min before you see a cop drive by. they always seem to be patrolling around here.

[sparkles]

About 4 years ago, I had my car in my garage all torn apart painting it. Had plastic up stapled to the trusses just hanging down to kinda make a tent around the car to keep the dust out. I wake up a lot during the night thanks to stomach ulcers and acid reflux. I just so happened to look out back at the walk door to find it open. I was 100% positive I had shut it, so decided to grab my G21 and make sure everything was kosher. Walk out, flip the light switch, and there's a 19 year old kid, in his underwear, completely incoherent, sitting on my workbench. Needless to say, he sobered up pretty quick when he noticed me with the pistol. Called the sheriff's office and they came and took him away. Evidently, he lived around the corner and was high on some whippits, or ludes, or whatever. IDK. He was just trying to find a place to get out of the cold. His mom brought him up to my house later that week to apologize. I told him I wasn't gonna hold it against him, but that he was lucky as fuck he didn't try to move off that bench.

Best part about it was when the Sheriff's showed up and saw all the plastic hanging up. They searched the garage pretty good after they cuffed the guy. I think they thought I was originally running a meth lab in there or something. Don't blame them considering all the paint and solvent fumes that were still around.