My "Time for more fun" build

[JacobS]

as much i love getting good gas mileage and the reliability of my honda, i figure its time for me to finally build something. it wont be too crazy, my goal is to hit the 11's. The engine is just a stock bore(81mm) B18a1.

JE Pistons
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/coogrman08/156960_1385705697779_1686127863_775.jpg

Piston installed on an Eagle Rod.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/coogrman08/67845_1385705857783_1686127863_7755.jpg

Gates Racing Timing belt
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/coogrman08/162910_1385705977786_1686127863_775.jpg

Blox cam gears. i only took a picture of one.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/coogrman08/63615_1385706097789_1686127863_7755.jpg

USDM ITR oil pump
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/coogrman08/157072_1385706217792_1686127863_775.jpg

head, valve cover, and other misc parts
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/coogrman08/150582_1385706377796_1686127863_775.jpg

Block with arp head studs and a golden eagle block guard.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/coogrman08/155023_1385706577801_1686127863_775.jpg

cylinder walls
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/coogrman08/154906_1385706657803_1686127863_775.jpg

block again
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/coogrman08/35636_1385706857808_1686127863_7755.jpg

Head with crower springs and retainers
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/coogrman08/74660_1385707057813_1686127863_7755.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/coogrman08/67104_1385707177816_1686127863_7755.jpg

the valves. wish i would have went with new OEM valves, they tend to flow better but ill be happy with these i suppose.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/coogrman08/72009_1385707417822_1686127863_7755.jpg

thats it for now.

[TbTalon94]

What're you doing for a turbo set-up? PM if you wanna talk about it.

[JacobS]

not quite sure. i havent gotten that far. i am pretty sure i am going with e85 though. any suggestions on the turbo setup? id love to hear some advice/opinions from others.

[Scott]

What EMS you running?

[JacobS]

its a toss up between hondata s300 and aem. i really want aem, but i dont know if i can justify getting it when the s300 will do just fine.

[Drifte]

Good to see the block guard! I meant to ask that when you mentioned going turbo before. Is this auto cross and drag? Or will it just be drag? And at what RPM do you want full boost? PTE 5557 would work well, I'd recommend it in ball bearing or else get a Turbonetics 46-50trim.

[TbTalon94]

PTE 5557 would work well. It just depends where you want the power and how much. If you plan to rev high and make decent power, a good ol 35r works wonders. The right manifold and right hot-side will make things better also. Like regular long-tube, or log-style. One has peak power the other has spool. It all depends on what you're after.

I'd also go with hondata. You don't really need AEM, and no sense to if hondata can handle everything fine.

[Clinical]

I'd go with Hondata, it's cheaper and unless you have super big goals I dont think it's worth spending 1k on AEM. + tuning on Hondata is a breeze, then again I've never tuned on AEM.

One turbo you could look into is the Bullseye T3/T04e 57 trim. Spools around 4.2k-4.5k on my friend's d16z6. He's had it for 12k+ miles and at 21psi has taken him to 11.6 - tons more potential left in it and it still is in awesome shape. They run around $500-$600 depending where you find them at.

Colton/Ryan/Trevor know more though when it comes down to nitty gritty with turbos though :)

and I wouldn't worry much about your mileage if its tuned well.
My other friend whose on here (boostedsohc) runs on 91 at 20psi, ran 11.9 and gets 47mpg and has around 20k+ on his build :)

[JacobS]

this will be a "drag" car. something to have fun with and help me learn.

its a mildly high compression motor so spool time wont be too much of a worry, but im going to be honest and say i dont know what kind of spool time id be happy with. ive never had a boosted honda so i dont know what i prefer. it will be driven on the street a lot with some track days.

[Clinical]

Keep in mind that the 1.8 would probably spool even better, but heres a clip of my friend's sohc on his bullseye quite some time ago before a bunch of mods, completely stock head also only at 19psi - rolling into it at around 4500rpms. Your 1.8 + higher compression would probably spool this sucker at like 3800-4000
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOCNkNuSaQY

It's a great turbo for an all-around car.
If you're looking to be a drag car and rev high for the most power, I'd suggest going GT35R like Trevor mentioned. It's an awesome turbo but turbolag could get obnoxious on the street.
You should only need 290-350whp to just run 11's and the GT35R would be overkill for it I'd think. This civic ran 11.8@116 with only 303whp.

[TbTalon94]

what are you revving out to?

[JacobS]

8000 should be the redline...id have to doublecheck

[TbTalon94]

A 35r is capable of making you great power at lower boost levels, but the spool isn't going to be the greatest.

Now I could build you a twin scroll manifold for a twin scroll turbo. You could pick a fairly big turbo (35r sized) and with the right hot-side still spool awesome. It would be fun on the street and still make plenty of power to meet your goals.

You might want to look into Borg Warner turbos also.

[FiFdYnUtZ]

Lookin good man! Keep it clean!

[Clinical]

Here's a link to the actual turbo I'm talking about.
Although I believe I've seen it for cheaper elsewhere awhile back when I was looking into a civic build. A shame too since I deleted my excel spreadsheet that had all links/prices for what I wanted :/
http://fjdistributors.com/product_info. ... cts_id=327 (http://fjdistributors.com/product_info.php?cPath=38_45&products_id=327)

[Drifte]

this will be a "drag" car. something to have fun with and help me learn.

its a mildly high compression motor so spool time wont be too much of a worry, but im going to be honest and say i dont know what kind of spool time id be happy with. ive never had a boosted honda so i dont know what i prefer. it will be driven on the street a lot with some track days.
leavin auto x for drag?! but you have such a handicap, your feet are tiny.

[JacobS]

this will be a "drag" car. something to have fun with and help me learn.

its a mildly high compression motor so spool time wont be too much of a worry, but im going to be honest and say i dont know what kind of spool time id be happy with. ive never had a boosted honda so i dont know what i prefer. it will be driven on the street a lot with some track days.
leavin auto x for drag?! but you have such a handicap, your feet are tiny.

hahaha i wear a size 11 thank you very much!

[Drifte]

Yea on your left foot, but I wasn't about to point that out.

[Scott]

Shit with those eagle rods and good valvetrain components you can spin the piss outta that little guy, I vote for 9,500-10,000rpm with about 35psi of boost at 9000 rpm. being FWD you should be able to launch off a 2 step and keep wheel speed high enough so it doesnt bog down right?

[Drifte]

Gonna need an lsd and slicks. Otherwise, spinning will be more of an issue, in that it wont stop.

[Scott]

Gonna need an lsd and slicks. Otherwise, spinning will be more of an issue, in that it wont stop.

Maybe with a AMS-1000? Gotta make this honda get after it!!!

[Clinical]

yeah an LSD is a must, although my friend ran an 11.9 with an open diff it definitely is at the end of its leg and just begging to fall apart.

An LSD or welded diff is definitely something you want, just a welded diff wont be as street friendly.

[TbTalon94]

Yea even with an LSD big power in a honda equals wheel spin...and the WHOLE way down the track. Unless you do a TON of work to the suspension and other things to get it just right. Once you do that your streetability is reduced.

I say stick to a lower HP target (400whp or so) and have some fun with it. 400whp in that car would be PLENTY fast and you'd have traction issues like crazy but it wouldn't be so bad as like 500-600whp from a 35psi, 35r, 10krpm car.

[AutoMods]

One turbo you could look into is the Bullseye T3/T04e 57 trim. Spools around 4.2k-4.5k on my friend's d16z6. He's had it for 12k+ miles and at 21psi has taken him to 11.6 - tons more potential left in it and it still is in awesome shape. They run around $500-$600 depending where you find them at.

Colton/Ryan/Trevor know more though when it comes down to nitty gritty with turbos though :)
)


I don't care for bullseye, its probably just another 57 trim garrett. 50 trim has a better map

[Clinical]

Yea even with an LSD big power in a honda equals wheel spin...and the WHOLE way down the track. Unless you do a TON of work to the suspension and other things to get it just right. Once you do that your streetability is reduced.

I say stick to a lower HP target (400whp or so) and have some fun with it. 400whp in that car would be PLENTY fast and you'd have traction issues like crazy but it wouldn't be so bad as like 500-600whp from a 35psi, 35r, 10krpm car.
yeah, 300-320whp got my friend to 11.6. 400whp would more for than enough for a fun street car in a honda.

He did a bunch of different things with suspension setup, even with an LSD he still was trapping 119's / 121mph(best) and running 13's and high 12's.

Finally he gave up on his drag radials and bought slicks and pulled an 11 his first pass.

Just get some decent suspension, LSD, and some nice meaty slicks, get the launch down and you'll be gold!

[StreetSweeper]

Sherman are you going to a car show?

[Scott]

Sherman are you going to a car show?

No he's going to pick up miss daisy!! Better make sure you get good mileage, drivability, and defiently make sure you dont make enough power to spin the tires!!!! That would be a nightmare

[Jappbox]

rememeber now, your doing how high of compression? and that wth e85 will help a ton, i vote get a 35R with a a bigger hotside, it will spool great with a good header.

[civicex_1134]

ive kinda been there given him some pointers. This things gonna be sweet, i cant wait to see it running. I like the fact that he went to go non-vtec, makes things very simple. LSD? hes got it.... fresh GSR trans with LSD. not sayin a whole lot tho, dont know what he does/doesnt want said.

[Clinical]

non-vtec is easier to tune as well, at least in my eyes.

When my buddy finally decided to turn vtec on, it seemed to mess with the tune a lot and had to make a lot of adjustments

[TbTalon94]

rememeber now, your doing how high of compression? and that wth e85 will help a ton, i vote get a 35R with a a bigger hotside, it will spool great with a good header.

I agree. Can't lose with a simple 35r.

[JustinS]

I cannot have my little brother be faster than me.

[civicex_1134]

^He will be......... unless u plan on boostin that cougar of yours. lol

[JustinS]

I'll prob sell it off and get something else lol.

[JacobS]

ive kinda been there given him some pointers. This things gonna be sweet, i cant wait to see it running. I like the fact that he went to go non-vtec, makes things very simple. LSD? hes got it.... fresh GSR trans with LSD. not sayin a whole lot tho, dont know what he does/doesnt want said.

i dont care what is said. as dallas said i have a fresh GSR transmission with LSD. and by the sounds of it, the 35r would be my best decision. :)

[CiviC_boY]

Cant wait to see it done...

[FiFdYnUtZ]

Haha better keep it DL dallas. With all of the serious street racing that goes on in this town god knows who might see what's done to it and lose a money race! The last time I watched turbo hondas race in cr one couldn't turn over its dr's and the other blew a headgasket..

[JacobS]

so much hate :(

[Xboosted23X]

I vote 3076. You don't need a lot of power. 400whp would meet your goal pretty easy and still be a lot of fun on the street.
You will need slicks for the track if you plan on hooking at all. and some DRs for the street. rolling burnouts are cool for a bit but sucks when you are trying to race.
What are you running for fuel? A single walbro and 1k-1200 would work fine. Is neptune still around? They were just coming out when I got out of the honda game.

If you want to push the motor and go faster than 11s I would go 35r. But for mostly street use I think it may be to laggy. Well for my likings it would be.

[FiFdYnUtZ]

im not hatin', i hope this build works out great! it would be nice to see a well done honda around...just dont cut corners..

[JacobS]

I vote 3076. You don't need a lot of power. 400whp would meet your goal pretty easy and still be a lot of fun on the street.
You will need slicks for the track if you plan on hooking at all. and some DRs for the street. rolling burnouts are cool for a bit but sucks when you are trying to race.
What are you running for fuel? A single walbro and 1k-1200 would work fine. Is neptune still around? They were just coming out when I got out of the honda game.

If you want to push the motor and go faster than 11s I would go 35r. But for mostly street use I think it may be to laggy. Well for my likings it would be.

would a single walbro and 1000cc injectors be enough with e85? i tried to figure that out, but, again, my inexperience shows and i couldnt.

and tyler, corners cant be cut. im giong to have too much time and money invested (in my eyes) for this to be a cobbled together piece of shit.

[JustinS]

im not hatin', i hope this build works out great! it would be nice to see a well done honda around...just dont cut corners..
Trust me, he wont, if he tries to cut corners he knows I'll kick his ass when he's passed out upstairs sleeping.

:supz:

[JustinS]

I vote 3076. You don't need a lot of power. 400whp would meet your goal pretty easy and still be a lot of fun on the street.
You will need slicks for the track if you plan on hooking at all. and some DRs for the street. rolling burnouts are cool for a bit but sucks when you are trying to race.
What are you running for fuel? A single walbro and 1k-1200 would work fine. Is neptune still around? They were just coming out when I got out of the honda game.

If you want to push the motor and go faster than 11s I would go 35r. But for mostly street use I think it may be to laggy. Well for my likings it would be.

would a single walbro and 1000cc injectors be enough with e85? i tried to figure that out, but, again, my inexperience shows and i couldnt.

and tyler, corners cant be cut. im giong to have too much time and money invested (in my eyes) for this to be a cobbled together piece of shit.
I like cobbled together pieces of shit. I mean hell, look at my pos LOL

[Xboosted23X]

I would think it would put enough fuel out. 1200s would be some extra insurance. Maybe look into the new DW 300lph pump and you shouldn't have issues at all.
What are you planning on running for a clutch?

[JustinS]

1000's should be more than enough, but wtf do I know

[Sledge_WS6]

What are you going to do with your suspension to handle this power?

[JacobS]

ill worry about that when i get to it. i want to get the car running first.

[Domestic Disturbance]

ew

[TbTalon94]

3076 is a nay. It has almost the same spool as a 35r and gives up like 150hp to it. I heavily researched between the 3076, and 35r when I was deciding for my car. A 3071 will spool much better, but then almost gives up 200hp.

Stick with a 35r or equivilant and you'll be good to go. I'm telling ya if you want a little better spool just stick a T4 twin scroll turbine housing on it and it'll knock the spool down probably 400-500rpms.

For fuel, 1,000's and a single Walbro will probably be good for around 400-450hp or so on E85. Honda heads flow well so you might get away with a little more, if you're looking for a little breathing room i'd go with 1,200's atleast and possibly look into that Deatschwerks 300lph pump David is talking about.

[Jappbox]

i would go more than 1000's at least 1200's. Again whats he compression? a 35R will not spool that bad. if you do 9.5:1 or higher.

[Drifte]

A lot of spool discussion "spool sooner, spool not that bad etc" lol, any lag is annoying in my eyes. I know no one can give actual numbers because no one else has this setup. But I work with Honda guys going turbo everyday. A 50 trim will be laggy, and depending on his weight still pull him into 11's. Really that number is entirely traction and suspension dependent.

To set a few bases, need to know compression ratio, desired RPM for boost, rev limit I believe you said was 8k.. What hp is that motor good for now?

E85, a walbro 255 (or if the new walbro is out in time, 300lph), fic 1100's, fpr and fuel should be ok. Probably want to replace the stock fuel filter, if I remember right its restrictive and with a 255 you'll want to be as efficient as possible.

[JacobS]

compression ratio is 11.5:1

thanks for all the advice guys.

[Scott]

Holy compression batman!! Better go with E85 or methanol and buy a case of headgaskets LOL

[TbTalon94]

Compression isn't that high for a boosted motor. It's almost normal to do 10:1 now days when Evo/DSM guys build their motors.

The big timers are going 12-14:1 depending on what fuel they run...and that's with 40-60psi of boost.

E85, 11.5:1, and a 35r around 15-18psi would make for one hell of a fun car :)

[Domestic Disturbance]

Man, all of you honda guys are making some progress. So no more autocross then?

[JacobS]

no more autocross...for now.

[Ricky]

no more autocross...for now.

boo

[Drifte]

I get pissed at the "lag" I get at times. I dont like waiting, I want it when I want it.

[Scott]

Compression isn't that high for a boosted motor. It's almost normal to do 10:1 now days when Evo/DSM guys build their motors.

The big timers are going 12-14:1 depending on what fuel they run...and that's with 40-60psi of boost.

E85, 11.5:1, and a 35r around 15-18psi would make for one hell of a fun car :)

Boy I dont know man, running 14:1 and 60 psi on gas sounds pretty impossible to me, thats ALOT more than even top alcohol dragster engines run and they're on 100% methanol pushing the limits, the ideal seems to around 12-13:1 with exotic fuel such as VP M5 or even nitro fuel if I remember right. I could see on E85 or higher % alcohol fuel running 11:1 no problem with a shit ton of boost. I guess Im thinking more along the lines of a max effort engine build instead of a DD situation, I dont like the thought of building a expensive burly engine then de-tuning it with a little turd-blow bolted on it. GO BIG

[Scott]

I get pissed at the "lag" I get at times. I dont like waiting, I want it when I want it.

Sounds like you need a roots blown or nitrous car to me :supz: Nothing like pulling a 1.2x 60' with a nitrous car!!

[Drifte]

I just want throttle response.

A 35r with .63 a/r will do 450whp at 11psi (very common). But if you're only running 11psi, why not run something smaller and get there quicker? The effeciency of the dohc honda motors isnt really comparable to a dsm or evo. The honda with make the same power with less airflow and less fuel expelling less exhaust gas.

Spool time in the forester. Maybe hard to hear, but boost follows every throttle blip. Only downside is boosting on the highway when theres a head wind.
http://importevolution.com/videos/Fores ... kturbo.MOV (http://importevolution.com/videos/Forester_stockturbo.MOV)

[TbTalon94]

Compression isn't that high for a boosted motor. It's almost normal to do 10:1 now days when Evo/DSM guys build their motors.

The big timers are going 12-14:1 depending on what fuel they run...and that's with 40-60psi of boost.

E85, 11.5:1, and a 35r around 15-18psi would make for one hell of a fun car :)

Boy I dont know man, running 14:1 and 60 psi on gas sounds pretty impossible to me, thats ALOT more than even top alcohol dragster engines run and they're on 100% methanol pushing the limits, the ideal seems to around 12-13:1 with exotic fuel such as VP M5 or even nitro fuel if I remember right. I could see on E85 or higher % alcohol fuel running 11:1 no problem with a shit ton of boost. I guess Im thinking more along the lines of a max effort engine build instead of a DD situation, I dont like the thought of building a expensive burly engine then de-tuning it with a little turd-blow bolted on it. GO BIG

Oh no i didn't mean 14:1 and 60psi with gas, those guys are running Methanol. Brent rau runs in the 14:1 range and 82psi of boost on Methanol. Running 200+ in the 1/4. Shep's in the 14:1 range also with 60-70psi and was running Methanol, and you know how fast he is. These are obviously the top contendors but i'm just saying it's been done before.

Look around a lot and most if not all stroker guys go to 10:1 and run 40psi on e85 or VP gas and it's not a problem. I'd imagine a little higher compression and less boost would suite just fine with e85.

[AutoMods]

E85, 11.5:1, and a 35r around 15-18psi would make for one hell of a fun car :)


If your only going to run 15-18psi then run a smaller turbo then a 35r.

I can get you a ball bearing 16g sized Turbonetics turbo for $730 or a journal bearing for $525 . spool should be great.

[TbTalon94]

The point of going with a 35r and running low boost is the 35r will make MORE power then a 16g sized turbo at 11psi. Come on guys. You know this. Airflow is much different with different sized turbos.

He wants good power, and not have to run a shit ton of boost to get there. The 35r will do the job. Later spool is going to help with traction also. A quick spooling turbo is only going to increase wheel spin.

[Clinical]

I just want throttle response.

A 35r with .63 a/r will do 450whp at 11psi (very common). But if you're only running 11psi, why not run something smaller and get there quicker? The effeciency of the dohc honda motors isnt really comparable to a dsm or evo. The honda with make the same power with less airflow and less fuel expelling less exhaust gas.

Spool time in the forester. Maybe hard to hear, but boost follows every throttle blip. Only downside is boosting on the highway when theres a head wind.
http://importevolution.com/videos/Fores ... kturbo.MOV (http://importevolution.com/videos/Forester_stockturbo.MOV)
jeeze i wish my turbo would spool so well at 3k!

[Scott]

I cant believe I posted so much in a honda thread!!! Im starting to feel nerdy now, I better go

[TbTalon94]

You know you want to see the little honda run good Scott, we ALL lend him a hand and he can get something good out of it. Just no Vortech/Ysi bullshit lol

[JacobS]

The point of going with a 35r and running low boost is the 35r will make MORE power then a 16g sized turbo at 11psi. Come on guys. You know this. Airflow is much different with different sized turbos.

He wants good power, and not have to run a shit ton of boost to get there. The 35r will do the job. Later spool is going to help with traction also. A quick spooling turbo is only going to increase wheel spin.

this is exactly what everyone has been telling me. i had looked into doing a big 16g but others talked me out of it because it would cause almost instant wheel spin. which is what i dont want.

and i also cant run insane amounts of boost because my sleeves wont handle it. The b18a1 sleeves are relatively strong, but why push them to the limit when my goal is to have fun?

[Drifte]

The point of going with a 35r and running low boost is the 35r will make MORE power then a 16g sized turbo at 11psi. Come on guys. You know this. Airflow is much different with different sized turbos.

He wants good power, and not have to run a shit ton of boost to get there. The 35r will do the job. Later spool is going to help with traction also. A quick spooling turbo is only going to increase wheel spin.

this is exactly what everyone has been telling me. i had looked into doing a big 16g but others talked me out of it because it would cause almost instant wheel spin. which is what i dont want.

and i also cant run insane amounts of boost because my sleeves wont handle it. The b18a1 sleeves are relatively strong, but why push them to the limit when my goal is to have fun?

Can't complain that the power came on? If you dont want mid range power and the idea is to run a big turbo to only have power at 7k grab a t76...right? lol

[Drifte]

The point of going with a 35r and running low boost is the 35r will make MORE power then a 16g sized turbo at 11psi. Come on guys. You know this. Airflow is much different with different sized turbos.

He wants good power, and not have to run a shit ton of boost to get there. The 35r will do the job. Later spool is going to help with traction also. A quick spooling turbo is only going to increase wheel spin.

this is exactly what everyone has been telling me. i had looked into doing a big 16g but others talked me out of it because it would cause almost instant wheel spin. which is what i dont want.

and i also cant run insane amounts of boost because my sleeves wont handle it. The b18a1 sleeves are relatively strong, but why push them to the limit when my goal is to have fun?

Can't complain that the power came on? If you dont want mid range power and the idea is to run a big turbo to only have power at 7k grab a t76...right? lol (just gotta be able to shift at 10k and faster than anybody).

[AutoMods]

The point of going with a 35r and running low boost is the 35r will make MORE power then a 16g sized turbo at 11psi. Come on guys. You know this. Airflow is much different with different sized turbos.

He wants good power, and not have to run a shit ton of boost to get there. The 35r will do the job. Later spool is going to help with traction also. A quick spooling turbo is only going to increase wheel spin.

Your motor doesn't know or care about what size turbo you have. 12psi of air in a cylinder created from a small turbo will be the same amount of air as 12psi created from a large turbo. If you were over working the turbo and were out of its efficiency range than that 12psi from the smaller turbo would be hotter air. You could gain a little power from less back pressure on a bigger turbine wheel but you wouldn't gain much power unless the smaller turbo was being overworked.

I switched from a t76 to a t72 this fall and kept my turbine wheel and a/r the same. I guarantee you that I make the same power at 11psi as I did with my old t76, but my t72 spools faster. If you want to pay for the dyno I will show you.

Picking a slower spooling turbo to help with traction is retarded, you fix your traction issue you don't make your car a peak power dyno queen. You want power under the curve not just a peak power.

That would be like me switching my v8 to a 4 cylinder to help with my low rpm traction. How many v8 guys do you know that want smaller motors to prevent traction problems....lol

You even changed out your 35r to a smaller turbo because you were sick of the slow spool and your telling Jacob to run that turbo on a motor that is 10% smaller. And no the high compression won't help spool much.

David's stock turbo evo had better track times then your 35r car did because it spooled faster and wasn't so finicky to launch and get boost built.

[TbTalon94]

Your motor doesn't know or care about what size turbo you have. 12psi of air in a cylinder created from a small turbo will be the same amount of air as 12psi created from a large turbo. If you were over working the turbo and were out of its efficiency range than that 12psi from the smaller turbo would be hotter air. You could gain a little power from less back pressure on a bigger turbine wheel but you wouldn't gain much power unless the smaller turbo was being overworked.

I switched from a t76 to a t72 this fall and kept my turbine wheel and a/r the same. I guarantee you that I make the same power at 11psi as I did with my old t76, but my t72 spools faster. If you want to pay for the dyno I will show you.

Picking a slower spooling turbo to help with traction is retarded, you fix your traction issue you don't make your car a peak power dyno queen. You want power under the curve not just a peak power.

That would be like me switching my v8 to a 4 cylinder to help with my low rpm traction. How many v8 guys do you know that want smaller motors to prevent traction problems....lol

You even changed out your 35r to a smaller turbo because you were sick of the slow spool and your telling Jacob to run that turbo on a motor that is 10% smaller. And no the high compression won't help spool much.

David's stock turbo evo had better track times then your 35r car did because it spooled faster and wasn't so finicky to launch and get boost built.

Your motor does care. Airflow is airflow. A 60lb/min turbo is going to flow MORE air at 12psi then a 40lb/min turbo. It's simple fluid dynamics. Also a larger more efficient compressor wheel will deliver cooler air at the same psi level as a smaller less efficient compressor wheel. Making the bigger turbo and motor work less and make better power.

It's widely used in FWD cars to size the turbo a little bigger to help with the boost curve in HELPING traction. I didn't say fix it, i said help. It's not as simple to get a FWD car to hook as it is an AWD or RWD car. Any little bit helps. Ask any big power honda guy. I'm not just shooting out the mouth here.

I changed my 35r because I wanted something different and I wasn't going for max power anymore. The spool on my 35r was very tolerable and i'd do it all over again if had the chance.

David's stock turbo car went .2 seconds faster then me in the 1/4 because he is probably 300-400lbs lighter then me. He also had a MUCH better clutch, was on e85, and had the tune to the max. I had a worn out exedy twin with 50k+ on it, full weight and some, PUMP gas, 22psi and a tune that wasn't maxed. I also was banging off my 7,850rpm rev limit. Still have the logs showing it bounce off the rev limit in 4th probably 20 times. I went 3mph faster then David hitting the rev limit. Not taking anything away from David, but it's apples to oranges.

[Scott]

You know you want to see the little honda run good Scott, we ALL lend him a hand and he can get something good out of it. Just no Vortech/Ysi bullshit lol

LOL after all the Ysi garbo all year now he got something else, X something or other. I cant imagine how anyone could switch from the magic Ysi blower to something different :rolleyes:

[AutoMods]

Your logic is flawed. Two turbos of different sizes will flow the same amount of air through a 1" pipe IF, and a big IF, you limit both to no more than 12psi. 12psi through a 1" pipe is 12psi of airflow doesn't matter how 12psi got there, temperature being constant.

I already said temperature will be similar if you are in the efficiency range on both turbos. If pressure is the same and temperature is the same, air mass will be the same at the same psi. Backpressure can change the whole scenario but it matters little until you start to overwork the small turbo.

[TbTalon94]

Here. Same everything except a simple swap from an Fp-Red to an Fp-Black. Black being the bigger compressor wheel. Proof is in the pudding.

http://www.myevolution8.net/vrsf/keath2.jpg

[Ricky]

mmmmmmm pudding. :drool:

[Clinical]

mmmmmmm pudding. :drool:
does sound good

[Xboosted23X]

450 whp on 11psi seems a lil low for boost. I think with a bigger turbo its going to hit harder when you do spool it causing wheel spin. granted you maybe going faster before it comes on.
I know when I had my prelude I would hit 50 mph in second and break loose. that was a 2.3 and a 50trim on pump and 10lbs. I am sure a lot has came to the market since I had my car to help traction.

The bigger the turbo will be harder to learn with launch and boost recovery in between gears.

How bout you try to find a used smaller turbo. See if you like it, and get a feel for a turbo car. Then if you don't like it upgrade to a larger one.

I am content on my stock turbo right now. its fun on the street, runs decent on the track, and quick spool for auto x. Down the line with a built motor I would like a little larger turbo, yet keep spool down with a boat load of tq(for a import).

You need to get your goals figured out a little better. when you want power. how much.
when you do run 11s are you going to be happy and call it good. Or do you want more?

I think that is a little slow for a red. not to mention the 2 months difference in logs.

[TbTalon94]

That dyno i posted was of the initial tuning of the Black. He said they were running out of fuel (99%) duty cycles. After fuel changes and a few tweaks it can pull off more power. The red was pretty much done. This is the same tuner, same everything just different turbos. I've seen Red's make more, and i've seen Black's make more. The point was to show the bigger turbo clearly making more power with all other variables the same.

To reiterate a little bit. I see what you are talking about Ryan. Take a 2" pipe, take a small turbo and a big turbo keep the pressure the same and the temperature the same and they will both flow the same air through a 2" pipe, although the temperature of the outlet of the turbo will not be the same because of airflow differences. NOW, in reality the motor or cylinder is not what is seeing the pressure. The intake manifold is seeing the pressure. Boost is the back-pressure inside the intake manifold/charge pipes. The intake valves open, sucking in the compressed air and the turbo has to re-fill the void space taken by the motor...THIS is where the difference is. The Bigger turbo is going to fill the void space faster because it moves a higher volume of air at the same psi. The space is filled quicker, and the VOLUME of air is increased, boost pressure stays the same inside the intake manifold and the motor makes more power. A smaller turbo would take more time to fill the space moving less air, in turn the engine would make less power at the same boost pressure inside the intake manifold.

[AutoMods]

Here. Same everything except a simple swap from an Fp-Red to an Fp-Black. Black being the bigger compressor wheel. Proof is in the pudding.

can't believe everything you read, Joe blow buys a new magic turbo and wants to show off how fast it spools and how much power it makes doesn't want to look like an idiot when it doesn't live up. so he doesn't mention he ran more boost or timing, etc etc. Vendors do that stuff too. don't have enough info.

Something is weird with that graph, the blue line should show more torque down low then the red line because of faster spool up.

Also 34psi is high, I already said when you get closer to maxing a turbo out you will see horsepower differences per psi because of temperature and back-pressure. You originally mentioned 15-18psi on a 35r and I confident a smaller turbo like a 20g size will make very similar power at 15-18psi but with more power under the curve.

[AutoMods]

The intake valves open, sucking in the compressed air and the turbo has to re-fill the void space taken by the motor...THIS is where the difference is. The Bigger turbo is going to fill the void space faster because it moves a higher volume of air at the same psi. The space is filled quicker, and the VOLUME of air is increased, boost pressure stays the same inside the intake manifold and the motor makes more power.

Trevor, come on now, did you just make that up :suspect:

[TbTalon94]

This Is a fwd civic. He does not need much power under the curve for a drag race car. Fast hondas don't have 16gs and 20gs. They have 35rs and bigger. Period.

I'm gonna say this again one more time. It's about airflow, lbs/min. This isn't a bench flow test. It's real world. The bigger turbo will make more power at the same boost given the size isn't too overly big.

[G50Trim92]

I think you really need to think about what you want from your car. Is it going to be a all out drag car or something that will see a lot of street use? It seems like everyone is so quick to jump on the 35r bandwagon these days. (Don't get me wrong, they have their place) I get such a kick out of watching these guys and there big bad 35r's running the same times as properly setup 20g/50trim cars AND keeping the car fun to drive on the street and not an unresponsive lag whore. Having a nice usable power band is a blast. And running a larger turbo to combat wheel spin? Heard of it, and I think it’s retarded. I'd rather modulate the throttle than sit there and lag.

[Jappbox]

Wow, 12lbs is not just 12lbs. Alot plays a factory, engine sizing, valve timing, cylinder head flow and so on. like trevor said its about airflow a min, not boost. we wouldnt have effecnty maps for turbos if it just was about boost. my 35R evo at 35lbs of boost made 609whp. I then went to a 42R turbo and at 35lbs of boost it made allmost 800whp. this is why its about what boost your at and what the turbos efficentcy map shows its flowing at that pressure. the biiger the turbo the more air flow. This is a honda being its a 1.8L and that the heads on hondas flow very nicely he can do a 35R or simaler size and have it make power and spool good. a 3500RPM power band will be plenty. perhaps a 57 billet will be good as well. Ryan you better start researching turbo technolegy since you Sell them!

[AutoMods]

Jesse, did you actually read the thread or did trevor just call you for backup?

All other factors are the same, engine sizing, valve timing, cylinder head flow are not variables that are being changed. We our discussing the only thing being changed is the turbo. You talk about changing other things that opens up another can of worms. I'm well away of things like a cam with more overlap will allow the car to make a lot more power per psi.

Your 35r evo example doesn't apply because that turbo was maxed out. Go read about what I said happens when the turbo maxes out. Temperature and back-pressure shoots up.

Compressor map efficiency islands are talking about temperature and I already said I am comparing two turbos that are both in good efficiency islands.

[TbTalon94]

No the debate was that two turbos, one smaller and one bigger will or will no make the same power at the same boost level. The fact is the bigger turbo will make more power at the same boost levels. I can throw dyno graphs and 1/4 mile times at you all day to prove it. It's a fact.

Now he just has to decide what kind of power he wants and when. A properly set-up 50-trim will make great power and spool great. I know, I've had one on both a FWD and AWD car. I've only had a 35r on an AWD car and it was also a blast. If it's for drag racing only if pick the 35r all day, but if you want a little more fun on the street the 50-trim would be better. Still though not many fwd cars making power are fun on the street.

You only ever hear people say it's retarded to use a laggier turbo to help wheel spin that just haven't done it. I have and it works. Now you could use a good boost controller to ramp the boost a little slower or reduce boost in certain gears but then what's the difference? I wish we had more turbo FWD guys here to chime in but I'm telling you it makes a big difference.

[Jappbox]

a 35R is not maxed at 35psi. why then do guys push them to 45+ to dyno 700+hp? If put 60mm turbos on my viper and run 12psi its going to make 700whp, if i put 71mm turbos on its going to make 800whp at 12psi. The bigger the turbo the more airflow it can push the more air it pushes the more power it is capable of making. again if we are talking a honda 1.8L, at 16G at 15psi is not going to make anything over 290-300hp, where a 35R at 15psi on he same motor will make over 400whp. You of all people should know this! I read the whole thread. Do i need to post some turbo concepts wrote by Martin at ams for people to understand? Sherman if you want 350hp get a 16G if you want 450+ get a 30r, 35r. 16G will be very little lag but its gong to fall off at 7k, both turbos will give you a 3000-3500rpm power band. your curve just shifts to the right and your top end wll go up.

[slow ride]

Remember when you change a turbo you also change the exhaust housing in most cases when going to a much larger turbo. Making more power on a larger turbo is due to the change of the turbo as a system. More air in, less back pressure = more power at same boost all else being equal. If you didn't change the exhaust housing or wheel, ran both turbos at 10 psi and both turbos were working in an efficient manner with the same intake temps the power would be the same with the big turbo having more lag due to more inertia of the larger compressor wheel.

Nobody ever seems to remember the exhaust housing plays a huge part in overall flow of the engine. Larger turbos are not always more efficient at all boost levels as this is what the compressor map will show. Like an 18g compressor wheel working better at higher boost levels than a big 16g/evo3 wheel even though they are rated at the same flow or very close.

Compressors flow air, boost is the restriction after the compressor (including the turbine and housing) and the compressor map shows the efficiency of a particular blade/housing when the pressure delta across the blade is changed. It's possible a 50lb compressor is more efficient than a 60lb one under certian conditions on the compressor map.

[TbTalon94]

The dyno graph I posted is the same turbine housing, just a bigger compressor wheel. It really is the perfect example.

Obviously a turbo too big or too small for a motor isn't in the option. Like a 16g for a 3.0liter is way too small and shouldn't be compared. But Jesse made the perfect example. A 16g at 15psi is not making more then 300 but a 35r at 15psi will make 400+ easy. That's all I was trying to point out. The smaller turbo isn't always the best option and the bigger turbo isn't always the best option. It's just what the user's goals are.

[slow ride]

Way to many variables to be kept constant to trust internet dyno sheets. At those power levels though it's possible the red was much closer the it's limit than the black. Are you sure they didn't clip the exhaust wheel on the black?

[allgo]

I d put a YSI on that biatch...lol

[AutoMods]

Jesse, Garrett rates the gt35r from 400-600 ENGINE HORSEPOWER, that is around 500whp . http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobyga ... 568_10.htm (http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/catelog/Turbochargers/GT35/GT3582R_714568_10.htm) . 600whp puts the turbo off the right side of the compressor map.

Yes people make more power but the turbo wasn't designed for that kind of power and its not efficient up there. That is why a lot of turbos fail and people go blaming garrett for making bad turbos.

Do me a favor and plot the point on the 35r graph where the evo is at 45psi and 700whp,

heres the graph, put the dot on there for me

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/images/catalog/Turbochargers/gt35_images/714568-allcomp_e.gif

[allgo]

You know you want to see the little honda run good Scott, we ALL lend him a hand and he can get something good out of it. Just no Vortech/Ysi bullshit lol

LOL after all the Ysi garbo all year now he got something else, X something or other. I cant imagine how anyone could switch from the magic Ysi blower to something different :rolleyes:


It was easy.. its still a vortech..its kinda like you adding your 7th stage of spray..lol :baby:

[JacobS]

i should clarify that when i say street use, i mean im cruising around enjoying a nice day. i will not street race.

the racing will be done on the track. with slicks.

i should also clarify that im the type of person to set goals low. so when i say 11's, sure thatll be great, but if itll go faster awesome. i just figured people running 93oct gas on a stock b18a1 block/head have seen 11's so that would be a good starting point. once i hit that ill raise my goal and keep raising it until im purely satisfied.

[Xboosted23X]

ok your short term goal is 11s which shouldn't be a problem. Whats your long term goal. How many times do you think you will be at the track in a season? Is it going to be your DD during the summer? If you just want to cruise around not see boost and do well on the track go with a 45r. I would look into a 50 trim. pump out 400-500 and call it a day. I think that will be plenty fun.

[AutoMods]

I sold a 50 trim to a b16 car, brian, local cr guy. he was saying after he got it running he wished he had a smaller turbo to spool faster. He daily drives his. Has happened before I hate when people tell me that. I'd rather sell a turbo too small then too big. too small is still enjoyable, too big and laggy is not fun.

I talked Josh, local evo guy, down from buying a 6262 to a 5857 billet because he mentioned he wanted to do drag and autocross. well he came back and told me it was too slow of spool for autocross :(

Then there is DJ is300 guy with a 2jz 3.0, he was going go from i htink a 60-1 to a t72, I told him to go with a t66 instead for his needs, calls me back two month later and says he's glad he didn't go bigger.

35r is bigger then a 50 trim by a good amount, similar to a 6262 billet. but if you don't care about autocross and spooling then go for it. but if you don't plan on making at least 450whp I would go smaller.

[AutoMods]

http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?p=41613963

[JacobS]

i dont plan on autocrossing this car at all next year. i plan to buy a DD. i will be going to the track quite a bit. a lot of my friends go to the track, so i plan on going with all of them any chance i get.

im not saying i need a 35r. but i want something that is not going to be maxed out. i want room for improvement.

i dont think i mentioned this but i do have a set of crower stage2 turbo cams.

[Jappbox]

I sold a 50 trim to a b16 car, brian, local cr guy. he was saying after he got it running he wished he had a smaller turbo to spool faster. He daily drives his. Has happened before I hate when people tell me that. I'd rather sell a turbo too small then too big. too small is still enjoyable, too big and laggy is not fun.

I talked Josh, local evo guy, down from buying a 6262 to a 5857 billet because he mentioned he wanted to do drag and autocross. well he came back and told me it was too slow of spool for autocross :(

Then there is DJ is300 guy with a 2jz 3.0, he was going go from i htink a 60-1 to a t72, I told him to go with a t66 instead for his needs, calls me back two month later and says he's glad he didn't go bigger.

35r is bigger then a 50 trim by a good amount, similar to a 6262 billet. but if you don't care about autocross and spooling then go for it. but if you don't plan on making at least 450whp I would go smaller.


This big problem with joshes is that it was a nonball bearing. it makes a big diffrance no just in spool but on boost recovery between gears. but what do guys expect, they only are paying $800 for a turbo, back when i bought my 35Rit was $1300, hell my billet 7mm was $3000 you have to pay for the good turbos.

[TbTalon94]

I wasn't and haven't been impressed from the 5857 at all. Josh's spooled like crap probably because of the journal bearing, and most other Evo guys have complained they spool like a 6262 but make 150hp less. The 6262 also seams to be a bit laggy, more then the 35r, unless you have the set-up perfect with the right cams and so forth.

Everyone likes different things. It sounds like he wants to make some good power and go fast, NOT worry about slow spool on the street and DDing it. If it's a drag car, then the right thing to do is go bigger for your goals. Know that a 35r is probably going to see boost in the 5-5,500 range. If you're revving to 8-8,500....that is PLENTY of power range, specially for drag.

Now a 50-trim should spool in the 4-4,500 range, maybe sooner, but it's not going to carry the power all the way out to 8,500 unless you have a big turbine housing...which would negate spool.

Each turbo will get you 450hp, and definatly go 11's depending on your driving. The 50-trim will have about 100hp more on tap...the 35r will have probably 200hp more on tap. It's up to you. 50-trim's used to be the "street king" turbo, now you just see a lot of guys step up to the 35r because the difference in spool is made up by the large power range.

[Scott]

You know you want to see the little honda run good Scott, we ALL lend him a hand and he can get something good out of it. Just no Vortech/Ysi bullshit lol

LOL after all the Ysi garbo all year now he got something else, X something or other. I cant imagine how anyone could switch from the magic Ysi blower to something different :rolleyes:


It was easy.. its still a vortech..its kinda like you adding your 7th stage of spray..lol :baby:

Its only 2 stages, 1st one has your name on it, the 2nd stage I'll save for the fast guys :cop:


On a side note theres waaay too much turbo talk going on here, sounds like everyone is trying to argue the same point in different ways

[allgo]

You know you want to see the little honda run good Scott, we ALL lend him a hand and he can get something good out of it. Just no Vortech/Ysi bullshit lol

LOL after all the Ysi garbo all year now he got something else, X something or other. I cant imagine how anyone could switch from the magic Ysi blower to something different :rolleyes:


It was easy.. its still a vortech..its kinda like you adding your 7th stage of spray..lol :baby:

Its only 2 stages, 1st one has your name on it, the 2nd stage I'll save for the fast guys :cop:


On a side note theres waaay too much turbo talk going on here, sounds like everyone is trying to argue the same point in different ways

Cant wait....

[Drifte]

I wasn't and haven't been impressed from the 5857 at all. Josh's spooled like crap probably because of the journal bearing, and most other Evo guys have complained they spool like a 6262 but make 150hp less. The 6262 also seams to be a bit laggy, more then the 35r, unless you have the set-up perfect with the right cams and so forth.


I know multiple people who actually called to say after switching from the 35r to the 6262 (both ball bearing) the 6262 spooled faster, but made the same hp. I only recall what one was running for boost and it was 30psi. So although the compressor wheel being billet allows for tighter machining tolerances and a slightly larger exducer; its change in design spooled faster. It's impressive, Now Garret has their billets coming and Turbonetics has the forged billet.

[TbTalon94]

yea like i said with the right cams and combo they seam to spool better...but for the most part they seam to spool slightly slower. It also depends on the hot-side of the 35r compared to the 6262.

[FiFdYnUtZ]

I agree a 35r would be pretty sweet on there, lots of potential, but isn't it a bit overkill for his intentions with the car? Just curious, I'm not quite as informed on the turbo import shizzle...and didn't georges talon have a 6262 and was one of (if not "the") fastest time slip for a local dsm?

[Drifte]

Here you go sherm Dyno plot for a b18b at 15psi on PTE sc34 57 trim. Similar to the billet 5857. Has dsm 450cc injectors, stock motor. Might have cams, the guy doesnt know.

http://nehondatuning.com/pics/xenocron300whpLS-lg.jpg

[Scott]

He needs way more power than that

[Drifte]

Only really needs a little bit more, turn the boost up to 20psi or more. Im not sure what the engine is capable of.

[TbTalon94]

So like 5k spool, might as well got a 35r then.

George had a 3065, which is basically a 30r in Fp's own cast turbine housing.

[Xboosted23X]

Tyler I think George ran a FP 3065. The 6262 came out after he sold his car and is larger than the 3065. Look at Kegers car. It ran a 11.6 on stock turbo. Which is pretty good for having a much smaller turbo and less power than George.
I'm not real impressed with that dyno sheet of the 57 trim. I'm guessing he is on pump gas also due to the small injectors.
E85 + 25 lbs should be close to 400 with that 57 trim I'm guessing.

[Drifte]

Tyler I think George ran a FP 3065. The 6262 came out after he sold his car and is larger than the 3065. Look at Kegers car. It ran a 11.6 on stock turbo. Which is pretty good for having a much smaller turbo and less power than George.
I'm not real impressed with that dyno sheet of the 57 trim. I'm guessing he is on pump gas also due to the small injectors.
E85 + 25 lbs should be close to 400 with that 57 trim I'm guessing.
Yea, it was a mostly stock car on pump. Tuned by the owner with crome. I think there is a lot of room for improvement, and that turbo isnt quiet as good as the newer precision models I compared it to.

[AutoMods]

get a 16g sized turbo, oh wait a 20g sized turbo spools up only slightly slower. but if your going to do a 20g the 50 trim is only a bit slower spool so you should do that. but if your going to do 50 trim just do a 5857 billet. 35r is just a bit slower so there you go. then run the 35r at 15psi so all the former mentioned turbos will beat you.

Makes the 16g guys feel good when they beat 35r cars, spread the love and take one for the team.

Now for a/r .63 would be good but .82 is only a few hundred rpm slower so do that. but then you'd have to consider a t4 .68 a/r turbine or the 81 a/r right after that . hell just do t4 .96 a/r to give you ultimate upgradeability.

[Clinical]

I can't remember what my 20g spooled at with 22psi. I think it was right around 4200, wasn't that bad, also bigger than a honda motor though.

[Sleeping]

get a 16g sized turbo, oh wait a 20g sized turbo spools up only slightly slower. but if your going to do a 20g the 50 trim is only a bit slower spool so you should do that. but if your going to do 50 trim just do a 5857 billet. 35r is just a bit slower so there you go. then run the 35r at 15psi so all the former mentioned turbos will beat you.

Makes the 16g guys feel good when they beat 35r cars, spread the love and take one for the team.

Now for a/r .63 would be good but .82 is only a few hundred rpm slower so do that. but then you'd have to consider a t4 .68 a/r turbine or the 81 a/r right after that . hell just do t4 .96 a/r to give you ultimate upgradeability.

Haha!

A 35r sweet spot to high for his goals

[TbTalon94]

get a 16g sized turbo, oh wait a 20g sized turbo spools up only slightly slower. but if your going to do a 20g the 50 trim is only a bit slower spool so you should do that. but if your going to do 50 trim just do a 5857 billet. 35r is just a bit slower so there you go. then run the 35r at 15psi so all the former mentioned turbos will beat you.

Makes the 16g guys feel good when they beat 35r cars, spread the love and take one for the team.

Now for a/r .63 would be good but .82 is only a few hundred rpm slower so do that. but then you'd have to consider a t4 .68 a/r turbine or the 81 a/r right after that . hell just do t4 .96 a/r to give you ultimate upgradeability.

yea or he could buy a small turbo...then want more and buy another one slightly bigger, then want more and buy another one. Or he can go big or go home the first time and make the power he wants and not have to piss around with upgrading. Boost is only a downshift away, and sorry but for Drag racing he won't have to worry about lag with a 35r.

I swear it's like we are competing to sell turbo's yet you're the only one making profit.

Sherman pick a power goal, pick where you want your power band and chose a turbo accordingly. I think we've more then layed it out for you.

[Clinical]

get a 13g!!!
the inlet is the size of your thumb

[Drifte]

traction bars, lsd, boost by gear (s300 etc) and some decent tires and it should go.

[Ricky]

I didnt know a honda build would get this heated over a turbo....

If you want a drag car use a big turbo, if you want a fun car and would like to drive it around town and have fun, dont get a 35r.

I have a 2.5L with a smaller turbo then a 16g and it puts down 300lb/tq at 3200 rpm.... i think its a freaking blast. Its not that fast (13.3 in 1/4) but evey day i start it up and drive it to work with a smile on my face.

Build the car that makes you smile.

[Jappbox]

Kegars car was around 30lbs of boost as well, and was 150lbs lighter than georges 35R car. and george had 12mph on him with the same boost on a 35R. No one is getingthe E85 picture, the 35R is going to spool 300rpms faster on that motor with just the e85 switch not to menting its not going to be 8.5:1 more like 10:1 or 11:1

[oVa-Boost]

if you want to go big or go home get a 45r :WORSHIP: .... 35r turbo's seem over rated i would stick to like a 30r or a 50trim but in reality its all in the tune you can have everything fully built Big ass turbo and a shitty or not so good tune and get beat by a different car with a smaller turbo that has a very good tune, seen it happen before. The only person that can decide what turbo to get is you that way you don't get mad and blame others for listening to them if you dont like the turbo they told you to get its your choice. Look up on Honda forums and see what other people are running for turbo and what there et times are along with whp

[FiFdYnUtZ]

Hoooooly uninformed post batman!

[sparkles]

Kegars car was around 30lbs of boost as well,
Did it have a parachute?

[JacobS]

made some pregress.

got the pistons and rods in tonight.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/coogrman08/SAM_0815.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/coogrman08/SAM_0816.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/coogrman08/SAM_0817.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/coogrman08/SAM_0824.jpg
just waiting on my arp main cap bolts and my cometic headgasket to come in then it should be fully assembled. :rock:

ive been researching honda-tech and ive come to tthe conclusion that a 30r or equivilent will be sufficient enough for my goals with plenty left.

by the way, if this doesnt always get updated with pictures its because i dont have a camera, mine got stolen. :cop:

[JustinS]

Who stole your camera? and it better not have been the SLR

[TbTalon94]

Seriously DO NOT get a 30r. They spool almost the same (within 100-200rpms) of a 35r and won't make the power.

I think a 50-trim would suite your car well. It will spool way better then a 30r and make close to the same power.

Pictures are lookin good, man those are high comp pistons! Don't see that type of dome much on turbo cars, but i have a feeling your car is going to be VERY fun!

[slow ride]

I like the idea of a 50 trim with the correct exhaust housing. Should spool decent given your compression and fuel choice. Should be good for higher 400's close to 500 whp with the right supporting mods on e85. Anyone have results from a honda built like this in the past?

[AutoMods]

I've also heard the 50 trim performs better than the 30r. I had a customer do back to back dynos on the two with his miata and liked the 50 trim better for spool and power.

The 50 trim uses a 54mm compressor wheel, if your interested I can get you the Garrett 50 trim or Turbonetics 50 trim or PTE 5557 billet or non billet. Believe it or not, I seem to have the lowest problems and Warranty claims with Turbonetics with the t3/t4's. Prices are all similar for Journal beaing, with ball bearing Turbonetics are more affordable.

[sLoWnStEaDy]

Holy Crap! there is a LOT of good reading in here. too bad you guys completely destroyed the OP's build thread!

:butthead:


I think "SOMEONE" should move all this crap somewhere else so he can have his build thread back but we don't lose any of this reading material.

[SaNdMaNsSi]

I haven't read much of this, but I agree with the 50 trim. I have one in my SI.....it's pretty spectacular. I haven't driven the car in years, so if you want it, I can leave my garage unlocked. Just make sure you steal more than 50% of the value of the car :)

[Jappbox]

Ive tuned a 50Trim turbonetics on a log manifold, it was a stock B16 motor. Spool is kinda bad, not impresse with the turbonetics, it didnt hit 10psi till 5k, Im pretty sure it was journal bearing as no water lines, and he bought it from Ryan 3+ years ago. this was also 93 octane, big intake manifold, AEM EMS

[FiFdYnUtZ]

Holy Crap! there is a LOT of good reading in here. too bad you guys completely destroyed the OP's build thread!

:butthead:


I think "SOMEONE" should move all this crap somewhere else so he can have his build thread back but we don't lose any of this reading material.

why? they are discussing the future of his build arent they?

[sLoWnStEaDy]

Holy Crap! there is a LOT of good reading in here. too bad you guys completely destroyed the OP's build thread!

:butthead:


I think "SOMEONE" should move all this crap somewhere else so he can have his build thread back but we don't lose any of this reading material.

why? they are discussing the future of his build arent they?

What I seen was a few people going back and forth. If you have a Trans Am build thread and people start going back and forth about and LS1 vs. and LT1, I wouldn't consider that being about your build. If he don't mind then fuck it, it is HIS thread. Some people just want a build thread and not 4 pages of people arguing. If it was my thread, I would ask for it to be moved so I just thought I would throw it out there.

It's his build thread and he has like 15 posts in 7 pages... Again, I guess I am just use to other forums now days.

[civicex_1134]

I wanna see this thing done! To be honest, i told scherrman, this is the build ive been wanting to do........ As in, building a HC motor on boost, cuz it would build boost a lil quicker than a stock motor. And if its fully built u can throw a descent amount of boost at it, and make some good numbers. Didnt really notice a full build list, told Jacob id post it up......

Stock B18A1 compression- 9.2:1
Jacob B18A1 compression- 11.5:1

Bottom End:
B18A1 Block hot tanked, glazed, and glass beaded
Golden Eagle Block guard
ARP head studs
ARP main studs
ACL race bearings, rods/mains
ITR oil pump
JE B16A forged pistons
Eagle H-beam rods with ARP bolts

Head:
Stock casting hot tanked and glass beaded
Crower dual spring valve springs
Crower Titanium Retainers
New OEM valve seals
Black Supertech valves
Crower stage2 turbo cams
Cometic MLS head gasket
Skunk2 Intake manifold
not sure what size,.... skunk2 throttle body

Thats all i can think of for now.......

[JacobS]

Holy Crap! there is a LOT of good reading in here. too bad you guys completely destroyed the OP's build thread!

:butthead:


I think "SOMEONE" should move all this crap somewhere else so he can have his build thread back but we don't lose any of this reading material.

why? they are discussing the future of his build arent they?

What I seen was a few people going back and forth. If you have a Trans Am build thread and people start going back and forth about and LS1 vs. and LT1, I wouldn't consider that being about your build. If he don't mind then fuck it, it is HIS thread. Some people just want a build thread and not 4 pages of people arguing. If it was my thread, I would ask for it to be moved so I just thought I would throw it out there.

It's his build thread and he has like 15 posts in 7 pages... Again, I guess I am just use to other forums now days.

doesnt bother me that much as it is kind of helping me learn more about turbos haha i can see where youre coming from though

[Drifte]

Are you thinking ball bearing or journal bearing turbo? And what trans are you using?

[Scott]

made some pregress.

got the pistons and rods in tonight.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/coogrman08/SAM_0817.jpg

just waiting on my arp main cap bolts and my cometic headgasket to come in then it should be fully assembled. :rock:

ive been researching honda-tech and ive come to tthe conclusion that a 30r or equivilent will be sufficient enough for my goals with plenty left.

by the way, if this doesnt always get updated with pictures its because i dont have a camera, mine got stolen. :cop:

Sexy looking pistons!

What clearance is the .019?

[AutoMods]

Ive tuned a 50Trim turbonetics on a log manifold, it was a stock B16 motor. Spool is kinda bad, not impresse with the turbonetics, it didnt hit 10psi till 5k, Im pretty sure it was journal bearing as no water lines, and he bought it from Ryan 3+ years ago. this was also 93 octane, big intake manifold, AEM EMS


I ran a Garret 50 trim journal .63 a/r for 3-4 years on my 2g dsm. Spooled at 3900-4000 to 20psi, 3rd gear. 'g50trim92' on here has the Turbonetics 50 trim Journal .63 a/r says spools to 22psi at 4k on 1g dsm. His brother Jason has the same Turbonetics 50 trim but ball bearing on 2g dsm and they say full boost at 3700 with noticeable improvement between shifts.

I've noticed that a lot of people brag about and exaggerate spool times for the better so you have to watch out for some numbers online.

[AutoMods]

I had an Iowa customer call this morning who bought a turbo last year from me. Had a distributor gear failure send debris through the motor and turbo. Turbonetics said they will warranty it with their 1 year no questions asked warranty. Thats a pretty crazy warranty that will fix an issue caused by the customer. I could probably tell you his name but I won't just in case his project is under wraps.

I'm just saying fyi, but I really don't care what brand turbo you buy.

[AutoMods]

one more thing I've seen happen is some people say 50 trim or 60 trim etc and they are talking about a straight t3 turbo as the turbine wheel and compressor wheel come from the t3 family of wheels.

A t3/t4 turbo is using a t3 family turbine wheel with a t4 family of compressor wheels. A t3 50 trim wheel is a lot smaller then one from a t4 50 trim wheel .

sometimes when people buy on ebay they buy the wrong thing accidently or don't know what they are buying. or the ebay turbo will say t3/t4 and that is all you get for details even though there are like 10 sizes of t3/t4

[JacobS]

[quote="Scott"Sexy looking pistons!

What clearance is the .019?[/quote]

second ring, and its .017

running a GSR trans with LSD

[JacobS]

put the head on, installed the cams. just waiting on a few things and she should be ready to go! and when i say that, i mean, sit in a basement until spring when i go back to work haha

[civicex_1134]

U can keep it in my basement if u want....

[JacobS]

if by keep it in youre basement you mean forever, no. although it would make a nice table.

but i do plan to keep it there for a while haha

[civicex_1134]

lol, its all good. She aint hurtin nothin. But if she starts pickin fights in the basement, then its gotta go........

[JacobS]

ordered my EK9 N1 crank pulley. however they are out of stock on them and they said the next ones wont be ready to ship until the 10th or 11th....damnit. oh well. im in no hurry.

also got a Hondata 4-bar map sensor, ecu, conversion harness, and Hasport mounts just sitting in my pile of parts.

not much of an update, but oh well.

[Garrett]

What Tuning software did you end up choosing?

[JacobS]

havent decided on anything yet haha

[Domestic Disturbance]

ordered my EK9 N1 crank pulley
Is that good? Wtf is it?

[DustinsDuster]

it's 3 better than the EK6...

[Drifte]

honda lingo for the 1st generation of a car based on the 6th generation ek.

If it aint a type aR than it aint a tight car.

[JacobS]

ordered my EK9 N1 crank pulley
Is that good? Wtf is it?

it is a crank pulley with no AC or PS. its lighter for less rotating mass. plus, my stock one was broke haha

[JacobS]

ordered my skunk2 pro series intake mainfold tonight. its all coming together.

[Jappbox]

exhaust manifold, turbo, wastgate, intercooler, plumbing, exhaust. Long ways to go..

[JacobS]

yea, cant forget those! also, FPR, fuel rail, injectors, second fuel pump, wideband, money, slicks, and while were at it, well add the suspension, slicks and maybe some more money haha

once i get hired back in march/april those parts will come more quickly.

to be on the safe side, i plan on breaking the motor in NA then throwing the turbo setup on after all the bugs are worked out.

[Krumm]

once i get hired back in march/april those parts will come more quickly.



i hear ya on that. Where do you work?

[JacobS]

LL Pelling Co. i do asphalt on roads and parking lots and walking trails

[Ricky]

i do asphalt on roads and parking lots and walking trails


thank you for fixing the roads one hole at a time.

[Drifte]

you guys need to get back to work ASAP, you got a lot of work to do!

"yea, cant forget those! also, FPR, fuel rail, injectors, second fuel pump, wideband, money, slicks, and while were at it, well add the suspension, slicks and maybe some more money haha"

Your stock fuel rail should suffice, unless its for looks. Theres a new pump out that can easily handle your needs, and just drop it in the tank like stock. Wideband...gotta dozen to choose from here, and FPR's, fittings etc. What injectors are you planning to run?

One trip down here could have ya set up.

[AutoMods]

standard walbro 255 can support 550whp, you shouldn't need dual pumps. on e85 one walbro pump will support about 450whp

[Xboosted23X]

could look into the new Deatchwerks pump. Flows about the same as a modded 255. I would look into larger injectors so you don't have to upgrade later when you want more power.

[TbTalon94]

Aeromotive also has a new drop-in pump that competes with the Deatchwerks.

[JacobS]

ill probably just run 2 walbros. i already have one. i ahte buying stuff just to sell it and get something else haha

[JacobS]

you guys need to get back to work ASAP, you got a lot of work to do!

tell me about it, and id be willing to bet a ridiculous amount of money that the city wont to fix even half of it.

and if they do decide to fix it, it will more then likely be small small patches, which in my mind is worse. because in order for a small patch to be perfect, you have to have 4 sides that are pretty close to or are level with each other. which in this city is completely unheard of.

/end rant

[AutoMods]

how much power do you plan to make initially?

[civicex_1134]

Motor: with HC and the cams and what not, id prolly guess 150 or so at the wheels
Boosted: not a clue, i personally would love to see him hit the 500 mark, never know tho

[AutoMods]

i'd just run your single walbro , probably take you up to 450whp on e85. KISS method.

If and when you ever make more power then that, then give yourself at pat on the back and put the 2nd one in.

I see people all too often buy stuff they don't need , spend all their money in the wrong places and then something goes wrong run out of money and their car sits for a year or two, lose interest. buy a turbo made for 700whp and they never make over 400whp. install 20 parts on their car all at the same time and then wonder which one is causing a problem.

[JacobS]

good point ryan. ill stick with a single pump for now. i can always upgrade later.

[Drifte]

^ awesome choice. Although I still like the car n/a.

[civicex_1134]

^agreed....

[JacobS]

to give everyone an update:

this past week a friend of mine offered my 3000 dollars for my car. i told him i couldnt do it so he offered 2500 dollars. i said ok. i went on the search and found another car that i liked. a 92 civic hatch cx. very light and a decent body.

the next day after finding the hatch i went and cleaned the car for my friend. and i put my rims back on because i needed to drive to dubuque and my tires on the steelies were losing air. so i put the rims on, washed the car, stood back and said to myself..."i dont remember it looking like this at all..."

seeing MY car, all cleaned up, and all my hard work, time and money spent, i fell back in love. i texted my friend saying "its going to take a lot more money then anyone is willing to offer me in order for me to get rid of this car."

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/coogrman08/3bb51135657f.jpg

[JustinS]

Pic sucks dick!

And you wouldn't accept 3k, but you'd accept 2.5k? wat!

[JacobS]

i told him that was way more then i paid for the car. im not going to risk losing a good friend over a few hundred dollars. friends are always more important then money.

the mexican took the photo, not me haha

[JustinS]

Business is business you should have taken the money lol

[Drifte]

Pics of it all cleaned up or it didnt happen and its ugly.

I see you cruising around btw, usually on 16th ave.

[JustinS]

Pics of it all cleaned up or it didnt happen and its ugly.

I see you cruising around btw, usually on 16th ave.

That's our hood lol

[AutoMods]

you should have sold it and bought an rx7, those are the best cars in the world

[Domestic Disturbance]

and then he went and looked at another white 2 door ej after you said no. Haha

[civicex_1134]

glad he didnt sell... hard to imagine him in anything other than his EK coupe.

[JustinS]

tuesday tuesday tuesday!!

[StreetSweeper]

I looked at a JJ convertable coupe this weekend!! they were running specials at Jimmy Johns!

[civicex_1134]

Well, we started on monday!!! pulled the SOHC, and stripped everything we werent using, (A/C, power steering, charcoal canister, ect...)..... So far, power steering is looped and ready, waitin on an OBD2-B distributer and a driver side mount bracket that bolts to the motor. The motor will be completely bolted in on friday, once thats done we can raise it up, do the exhaust and shift linkage....... Clutch is all bled and ready, throttle cable is mounted up. Just got some odds and ends to do yet.

Were doin some more work today ill take some more pics, only got a few yesterday. List for today is: mount the radiator, run the coolant lines, install rear T-bracket mount, wiring harness, cam seal, maybe install the fuel pump if he wants to.... ok, heres some pics:

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt318/teggy1134/SAM_0907.jpg

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt318/teggy1134/SAM_0905.jpg

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt318/teggy1134/SAM_0902.jpg

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt318/teggy1134/SAM_0904.jpg

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt318/teggy1134/SAM_0914.jpg

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt318/teggy1134/SAM_0911.jpg

[JacobS]

and we can put the map sensor in!

[civicex_1134]

oh yea!!! lol cant forget that

[Clinical]

good choice with the comp clutch

While for DSM's I lean towards ACT, my buddy's ACT was pretty bad in his civic. Boostedsohc's however has a ton of miles on his comp clutch and it looked brand new when we had it out

[JacobS]

its definetly going to take some getting use to! i have to wait for the distributor and the bracket to come in friday. hopefully we dont run into any more snags because were cutting it close. i want to drive it down to the meet!

[Drifte]

keep the a/c you nutcase. Lookin good.

[JacobS]

a/c only worked when it wanted to so i hardly ever used it anyway. i enjoy rolling with the windows down and the fresh air haha

[JustinS]

Don't need no stinkin a/c, he smells like ass when he gets off work anyways!

[AutoMods]

+1 for lose the ac, unless its your daily driver. all the vin diesel magic happens at night when its cool out

[Drifte]

Hate all you want on a/c, im gonna pimp my cool ass through the streets this year.

side note:
http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt318/teggy1134/SAM_0905.jpg
nom nom. hondas eat fans.

[Batwood]

The valve cover looks awesome in there!

Hope it all falls together for ya.

[jameson250s]

this is weak.

[JustinS]

Lmao James

[JustinS]

Bump

[JacobS]

it runs! had a small coolant leak on the crossover tube. kind of a buzzkill. gonna get that fixed today and hopefully, HOPEFULLY, drive it home. sounds meeeeaaaaaaan

[Drifte]

Where is it even at? PIcs/vid assembled

[JustinS]

It's out of town at a shop lol.

[JacobS]

its at a friends shop in anamosa. mainly because he has a lift. and i hate it when theres about 15 people standing around getting in the way and only 2 people working. so that helped out quite a bit. ill see about getting pictures and a video today.

[JustinS]

Keep texting me spy pics, they entertain me.

[TbTalon94]

how about you entertain the rest of us?

[JustinS]

Cause I'm on my phone and using the photobucket app sucks major d.

[Ricky]

update?

[Deimos]

x2? Where's the turbo dawg? Gonna use NAAAAWSS tp spool DAT TURBO?

[JacobS]

i have no turbo parts. and i will not purchase any until i get a daily driver. and that wont happen until after i go back to work on the 25th sooooooo...

i guess the update is, i need a different distributor. i currently have an obd2 with obd1 guts, and i need an obd1 distributor out of a 94 integra LS. then i also need a obd2-obd1 distibutor conversion harness. something to do with the crank angle sensor being in different locations.

theres your update. dallas took some more pictures, but i dont know what he did with them.

[JacobS]

question for all you folks. im getting tired of the look of my car. mainly, just because of the black and white look. so im thinking about breaking it up a bit by polishing the wheels. probably just blast them and then clearcoat it or something.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/coogrman08/car.jpg
^thats the only good picture i have of a side view of the car if anyone gets bored and wants to do a quick photoshop

[Drifte]

Looks great that way. I wouldnt have blacked out the tails, I would do all red tail lights. Maybe vinyl wrap the roof in black. I can PS it I suppose.

[Drifte]

Hard to make colors out of white, which is essentially no color. So no wrapped roof for you. Side skirts though, they look good color matched. 60
http://iowaautoforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60&d=1303258742

[AutoMods]

i guess the update is, i need a different distributor. i currently have an obd2 with obd1 guts, and i need an obd1 distributor out of a 94 integra LS. then i also need a obd2-obd1 distibutor conversion harness. something to do with the crank angle sensor being in different


glad you found your problem. seems a bit late to be finding that out though, shouldn't that have been in the original motor swap plan????

[Deimos]

So you never brought your car in... Were you afraid I was gonna ki pick your car apart?

[FiFdYnUtZ]

Looks great that way. I wouldnt have blacked out the tails, I would do all red tail lights. Maybe vinyl wrap the roof in black. I can PS it I suppose.

Everything you just said is flat out tasteless

[JustinS]

So you never brought your car in... Were you afraid I was gonna ki pick your car apart?

he got lazy, it'll be there tomorrow

[Deimos]

yep ask for don I can't give ya a presential alignment I will be at my other job.

[JustinS]

not getting aligned tomorrow then lol

[Deimos]

Don does a good job. He is angry at the world but he likes to be thorough

[slow ride]

Everything you just said is flat out tasteless

How do you figure? No 1995 blackouts check, reg lights check and I guess I don't care about the roof stuff.

[Drifte]

Everything you just said is flat out tasteless

Im the graphics major, so I decide what looks good for you. Its a rule. Though "I disagree" might have been a nicer approach. Water is tasteless, Im more like Whiskey.

[slow ride]

Oh snap pulling the college card ;)

[Clinical]

i have no turbo parts. and i will not purchase any until i get a daily driver
cause of reliability? haha boostedsohc went like 15k miles DDing his car at 300whp running 11.9, but he did go through like 3 turbos. Egay junk!

[JustinS]

cause of reliability? haha boostedsohc went like 15k miles DDing his car at 300whp running 11.9, but he did go through like 3 turbos. Egay junk!

He can't afford to not have a car for work, so a daily is a necessity. But he has one now, so it's all gravy.

[JacobS]

i just dont want to put myself in a situation where this car is broken and i have no other mode of trasportation. i havent missed a day of work in 3 years, ill be damned if i start now! i mean geez, its been three weeks since ive had a car to drive and i was going nuts!

[Domestic Disturbance]

I love the look of your car jacob. Only thing I can really see to mix it up would be front lip and fogs. Only cool kids have that. Possibly paint the trim black on the side, idk. Polished wheels would look pretty sick with all the other stuff left black too.

[Deimos]

Jake vs. Jake

[Drifte]

You callin' me sweet rayray?

If I was a chip, I'd be salt and vinegar. Get sick of em fast, and pretty bitter. yey of analogies.

[JacobS]

Jake vs. Jake

that could be arranged...



wait, are we talking on foot or with both of our cars? because if its on foot....get a lane! hahahaha

[Deimos]

that could be arranged...



wait, are we talking on foot or with both of our cars? because if its on foot....get a lane! hahahaha


Blah Blah Blah all talk

[Domestic Disturbance]

Blah Blah Blah all talk

Depends on if its a drag race or a tractor pull haha

[Deimos]

Lucky for me I enjoy both. If we threw in some mud drags it would be a party...

[JacobS]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ddBN7KTItU

dallas' camera sucks...its much louder in person haha

[JustinS]

please teach Dallas how to spell our last name, kplzthnx

[JacobS]

had some misfortune yesturday. got all the CELs figured out, opened the door to take it for a drive and i heard a TINK! followed by the engine shutting off. looked under the hood to see if it jumped timing, low and behold a camshaft snapped.

took the head off, pistons looked fine but you could see the marks where the valves hit. going to take the head to sperrys to check them out. im 98% positive that the 4 exhaust valves on the #1 and #2 cylinders are bent...

[JustinS]

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo239/sbrar-15/c668aa89.jpg

[TbTalon94]

Lol how does that happen

[JacobS]

if i knew trevor, id tell ya! haha im not happy about it, but ill live. its just one of those things that pisses you off. crower asked how many miles were on them, and i told him about 30 mins. MAX! the fucker didnt even have any load on it! all it did was sit there and idle.

according to crower its all my fault but theyll give me some "speical pricing on replacement parts" i said fuck you and hung up the phone. im not going to BUY another set of cams from them if they had one snap in my head already! they have to be fucking nuts if im going to do that!

[slow ride]

Push the issue on some of the Honda forums that they might see/sponser. You never know they might give in and fix it for you. Are the bearing surfaces in good condition?

[AutoMods]

was it brian crower or crower?

[JacobS]

brian crower, i keep forgetting they are two different companies...

[JustinS]

same family though.

[sparkles]

Yeah, I saw that on FB. Sucks man. I also see you tagged BC into the pics to get the little discussion on his page going. Let us know what all gets said and when he finally takes it down.

[TbTalon94]

I'd never buy Brian Crower cams...lol ever. They've had a bunch snap like that in Evo 9's. Usually under load though!

[Drifte]

Jacob, did you install new rocker arms with the new cams? Do you know the piston to valve clearance?

What is your valvetrain setup, maybe we can find a culprit if not a bad cast cam.

[AutoMods]

what did Brian Crower say you did to make it fail?

[JacobS]

they said the timing belt was too tight.

crower titanium retainers, crower springs, supertech valves. i called "brian crower" up before i purchased them and he said everything should work fine together.

o well, lesson learned. i might just have someone else put everything back together because i definetly dont want this to happen again!