4-link suspension?

[sLoWnStEaDy]

Let me first say, I think we should have sections in the "general auto discussion" area. like Electrical, chassis/suspension, engine, transmission, interior/exterior...

ANYWAYS...

Going over the plans for the Mach One. I got to thinking about the rear suspension. The original plan was to get an 8.8", hack the brackets off of it, weld on some leaf spring pads and "drop it in" the car. However, now I got to thinking about maybe doing a 4-link/coilover setup instead. I know it is a LOT more work but I am OK with that as it will be a much better setup in the long run.

My concern is that I just don't have the knowledge needed to do it. Fab skills I have, making brackets, measuring, cutting, welding etc... I can do. It's all the other stuff I am concerned about. Pinion angles, mount locations on the car, stuff like that.

My basic idea would be, when I have the trunk floor out (and thus have plenty of open space) to weld in a cross member between the frame rails for shock mounts and probably another one for the link mounts. I am basically wondering if suspension geometry/fabrication is as scary as it sounds or if it is like wiring, scary to think about but actually pretty easy to do.



EDIT: decent example of what I am considering. post #9

http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/mod-c ... ost3815664 (http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/mod-custom-forum/593424-i-want-adapt-late-8-8-into-my-66-4-link-setup-possible.html#post3815664)


I am going 8.8" for the strength, rear disc brakes, the fact that I can get them for like $100~ and because they are a few inches narrower than my stock rearend. So, along with the mini-tub I can get some pretty wide tires out back without and flares or tires sticking out or narrowing a rearend or anything like that. The plan is 325's on 10.5" rims out back.

[85XR7Project]

Why not go with a ladder bar setup? It's easier to tune than a four link and should be as good. Buddy of mine runs it on his nova and has had good results.

Also, if you want a wider 8.8 look into a Mark VII LSC rear they are wider than a mustang rear. Not terribly wider though, I just know they are five lug and have disc brakes.

[sLoWnStEaDy]

Why not go with a ladder bar setup? It's easier to tune than a four link and should be as good. Buddy of mine runs it on his nova and has had good results.

Also, if you want a wider 8.8 look into a Mark VII LSC rear they are wider than a mustang rear. Not terribly wider though, I just know they are five lug and have disc brakes.

I want the narrower rearend. The explorer rearend is about .5" narrower but I am looking for something a few inches narrower which is exactly what the Ranger FX4 is. it has 10" disc brakes, 31-spline axles, it's a locker and it has the 3.25" axle tubes. Perfect for my needs.

Never even thought about ladder bars. I will have to check into that...

[Clinical]

I'll just say to your first comment that'd be pretty cool.

Especially with the new forum and more advertising it'd become more of a Automotive/Technical site too which might attract more people as well and be easier to look for information. I like it

[sLoWnStEaDy]

I'll just say to your first comment that'd be pretty cool.

Especially with the new forum and more advertising it'd become more of a Automotive/Technical site too which might attract more people as well and be easier to look for information. I like it


For sure... That was my plan when I was considering buying IAF but someone beat me to it... LOL It's in better hands I am sure, I don't enough time these days...

[Scott]

Depends on what your going to do with it I would say. If your actually planning on building a strong 5.4 DOHC turbo engine that makes alot of power I would recomend just stepping up to a 9" with good internal parts. Along those lines if your going to have that much power and a 4 link you want to have a good cage and have it cert'd, I would get a 4-link kit that includes brackets and control arms that have adjustments "multiple holes" and you would need a hefty crossmember and tie it all into the cage.. Dont forget a ARB either.

but if your going for a street rod and dont care about the way it launches so much, you can with a "4-bar" which basically has no adjustment and is alot more simple to set-up but its not something you want to put behind 800+hp and try to go down the track with. That would end up like the link you posted. Its not near as strong.

I've been running ladder bars for quite some time and I like those, simple to set-up and adjust and if you get the ones with bushing ends instead of heim ends it would probably be pretty quiet too.

Lemme know if you do this I might be selling my 8.8 thats braced on front and bottom with a 31 spline strange spool, shortened 9" total, disk brakes and C-clip eliminators and strange axles along with the QA1's adjustable coilovers with springs, hell its even got the ladder bar brackets and I might just sell you the ladder bars too

[sLoWnStEaDy]

Depends on what your going to do with it I would say. If your actually planning on building a strong 5.4 DOHC turbo engine that makes alot of power I would recomend just stepping up to a 9" with good internal parts. Along those lines if your going to have that much power and a 4 link you want to have a good cage and have it cert'd, I would get a 4-link kit that includes brackets and control arms that have adjustments "multiple holes" and you would need a hefty crossmember and tie it all into the cage.. Dont forget a ARB either.

but if your going for a street rod and dont care about the way it launches so much, you can with a "4-bar" which basically has no adjustment and is alot more simple to set-up but its not something you want to put behind 800+hp and try to go down the track with. That would end up like the link you posted. Its not near as strong.

I've been running ladder bars for quite some time and I like those, simple to set-up and adjust and if you get the ones with bushing ends instead of heim ends it would probably be pretty quiet too.

Lemme know if you do this I might be selling my 8.8 thats braced on front and bottom with a 31 spline strange spool, shortened 9" total, disk brakes and C-clip eliminators and strange axles along with the QA1's adjustable coilovers with springs, hell its even got the ladder bar brackets and I might just sell you the ladder bars too


Narrowed 9" is too much, I am keeping the stock frame rails and everything so that wouldn't work. the FX4 rearend is about 3.25" narrower which is perfect for the late model Bullit wheels I am going to use. Stock width rearend pushes them out too close to the sheet metal but leaves a couple inches on the inside so losing 1.75" on each side should be perfect.

As for the car, it will mostly be a "street car" but of course it will see some track time. I don't have CRAZY plans for it, 600-700 horspower when all is said and done. the Big Block going in it this spring is probably around 550hp~. I just don't want to "waste" power running a stock leaf spring setup and changing leaf spring setups to something that "will work" is going to cost a few hundred anyways so I though I might as well upgrade to something else.

I want the car to handle decently, as decently as a nose heavy 3500lb car can anyways. I won't be doing any AutoX or anything but I am not going to just drive in a straight line all the time either. Looking for something in the middle. My overall goal with the car is just to have a badass street car that I can cruise around in and run 10's at the track.

My dad's neighbor has a '73 Charger, I beat the piss out of it with my Integra, THAT is my main thing with muscle cars. Yes, they look cool/badass but what is the point if they are 15+ second cars. Some jackass in a Honda pulls up and smokes a Muscle Car, you'll never hear the end of it! Ask my dads neighbor, he'll tell you!! LOL

[85XR7Project]

I'm with you on the whole handling and suspension bit. I think what you're shooting for is called a G-machine.

I am still eager to see you get going on this, I have always wanted to do one of these and I don't think I've ever seen someone do anything like this to a 71-73 style Stang.

[sLoWnStEaDy]

I'm with you on the whole handling and suspension bit. I think what you're shooting for is called a G-machine.

I am still eager to see you get going on this, I have always wanted to do one of these and I don't think I've ever seen someone do anything like this to a 71-73 style Stang.

I started on it a little bit, just nothing worth showing yet! LOL Mainly just got it gutted, all, all the lights, getting ready to pull the glass here soon. First thing I am going to do is cut out the trunk floor and get this rear suspension dealt with. Then do the floor pans and I have to figure out what I am doing under the hood. I am notching the shock towers for sure but I also want to do this: http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/a ... 1_0400.jpg (http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/attachments/5-0l-talk/46585d1213844256-pics-engine-bay-before-aflter-smooth-101_0400.jpg)

Just smooth out the engine bay. I won't be having heat or A/C in this car most likely. There is all kinds of funky shapes and dents and bubbles under the hood of these cars!

[DustinsDuster]

keith- if you get an FX4 rear- let me know what the width is(face to face)- might have to go to that down the road for my truck if the Explorer rear is just too wide for me. if you got one, and found it too narrow, id be willing to work out a trade for my explorer rear AND a pass. car 8.8 i have sitting around. if nothing, you could narrow the pass car one, and use the internals from the explorer rear.

[sLoWnStEaDy]

keith- if you get an FX4 rear- let me know what the width is(face to face)- might have to go to that down the road for my truck if the Explorer rear is just too wide for me. if you got one, and found it too narrow, id be willing to work out a trade for my explorer rear AND a pass. car 8.8 i have sitting around. if nothing, you could narrow the pass car one, and use the internals from the explorer rear.

the FX4 rearend is only 1" narrower than the Explorer at 58.5". you can get an older Ranger 8.8 which is 56.5" but no disk brakes and I don't think they had lockers either. Also, the non FX4 rears had 2.8" axle tubes instead of the 3.25". The Rangers are also 28-spline though, except the FX4's of course.

what width do you need? between the Capri, Mustang and Mach One, I have been reading on the 8.8" for over a year and pretty much know all the widths, what has discs/drums, lockers, etc... between all the different vehicles. I can get any of them for about $100-$200 as well. My stock rearend width in the Mach One is 61.25" so the 58.5" is pretty much PERFECT for my needs.

If you need narrow but don't need discs, there's always Jeep's... 73-75 CJ's have a center diff. Dana 44 and are like 51" from wheel mount surface to wheel mount surface. '77-'79's are the same width but model 20's and not Dana 44's.

[Scott]

Axles are pretty cheap if you decide to narrow your own as well, just need 4 spacer pucks and a solid rod to keep the ends aligned when you weld it together. about 250 for run of the mill axles if memory serves me correctly, and disc brakes are cheap as well.. I got GM metric calipers and mounts complete for my 8.8 under 50 bucks not including rotors. Just saying building it can be somewhat cheap and you can build it any way you want, any backspace wheels which can add to the looks quite a bit.

I guess my line of thinking is if your putting so much work into it to put in a 4 bar, ARB and coil-overs potential buyers of the car in the future would like to see a 9" in there. I mean doing a 4 bar set-up is nessecary REALLY difficult, but if you make it look professional and everything your going to have alot of time in that beast and it might seem "for lack of a better word" skimping on the important part by putting a stock 8.8 under it. I guess Im just nit picking here so dont let me rain on your parade, just my outside opinion

[sLoWnStEaDy]

Axles are pretty cheap if you decide to narrow your own as well, just need 4 spacer pucks and a solid rod to keep the ends aligned when you weld it together. about 250 for run of the mill axles if memory serves me correctly, and disc brakes are cheap as well.. I got GM metric calipers and mounts complete for my 8.8 under 50 bucks not including rotors. Just saying building it can be somewhat cheap and you can build it any way you want, any backspace wheels which can add to the looks quite a bit.

I guess my line of thinking is if your putting so much work into it to put in a 4 bar, ARB and coil-overs potential buyers of the car in the future would like to see a 9" in there. I mean doing a 4 bar set-up is nessecary REALLY difficult, but if you make it look professional and everything your going to have alot of time in that beast and it might seem "for lack of a better word" skimping on the important part by putting a stock 8.8 under it. I guess Im just nit picking here so dont let me rain on your parade, just my outside opinion

If this was like 98% of my other cars, which I plan to resell very quickly, I would probably go with what buyers would be looking for. I have no intentions on EVER selling this car. I plan to restore it to my liking and hopefully pass it on to Landon in like 12 years. I think people confuse the fact that I choose to resell cars I don't care about and can make a large profit on with every car I own. I still have a couple cars that I got when I was 16-17 sitting in a barn out at Grandpa's.

I just think $100~ for a nice 8.8", locking rearend with disc brakes is too good of a deal to look at anything else. Especially considering it is literally the exact width I need to tuck the nice modern 10.5" wheels and 325 tires out back without getting into a lot of fabrication. I am not going to be throwing 1k+ HP in this thing, maybe 700 at the very most and more likely, 600-650.

I don't see the 9" being THAT MUCH stronger than the 8.8". The only thing I could say about the 9" would be that it's easier to change gears but I don't plan to be changing gears every other weekend or anything. I just think the amount it would cost to get a posi 9" then get it narrowed and setup with disc brakes, just wouldn't be worth it when I can get an 8.8" for $100~ that is the right width already and has discs and a locker setup form the start.

A posi 9" alone is going to run $400+ I am sure. Hell, I see non-posi 9"s on craigslist for $300-$500+ all the time.

[DustinsDuster]

Axles are pretty cheap if you decide to narrow your own as well, just need 4 spacer pucks and a solid rod to keep the ends aligned when you weld it together. about 250 for run of the mill axles if memory serves me correctly, and disc brakes are cheap as well.. I got GM metric calipers and mounts complete for my 8.8 under 50 bucks not including rotors. Just saying building it can be somewhat cheap and you can build it any way you want, any backspace wheels which can add to the looks quite a bit.

I guess my line of thinking is if your putting so much work into it to put in a 4 bar, ARB and coil-overs potential buyers of the car in the future would like to see a 9" in there. I mean doing a 4 bar set-up is nessecary REALLY difficult, but if you make it look professional and everything your going to have alot of time in that beast and it might seem "for lack of a better word" skimping on the important part by putting a stock 8.8 under it. I guess Im just nit picking here so dont let me rain on your parade, just my outside opinion



If this was like 98% of my other cars, which I plan to resell very quickly, I would probably go with what buyers would be looking for. I have no intentions on EVER selling this car. I plan to restore it to my liking and hopefully pass it on to Landon in like 12 years. I think people confuse the fact that I choose to resell cars I don't care about and can make a large profit on with every car I own. I still have a couple cars that I got when I was 16-17 sitting in a barn out at Grandpa's.

I just think $100~ for a nice 8.8", locking rearend with disc brakes is too good of a deal to look at anything else. Especially considering it is literally the exact width I need to tuck the nice modern 10.5" wheels and 325 tires out back without getting into a lot of fabrication. I am not going to be throwing 1k+ HP in this thing, maybe 700 at the very most and more likely, 600-650.

I don't see the 9" being THAT MUCH stronger than the 8.8". The only thing I could say about the 9" would be that it's easier to change gears but I don't plan to be changing gears every other weekend or anything. I just think the amount it would cost to get a posi 9" then get it narrowed and setup with disc brakes, just wouldn't be worth it when I can get an 8.8" for $100~ that is the right width already and has discs and a locker setup form the start.

A posi 9" alone is going to run $400+ I am sure. Hell, I see non-posi 9"s on craigslist for $300-$500+ all the time.

if you can find one for $100, JUMP on it. my 8.8 cost $150 before tax, and that was almost $200 cheaper than anywhere else i could find it. thing is, the explorer rear is 2" wider than the truck rear, and the truck wheels already run a ton of offset. really, it might not be worth it to me to get only 1" by getting a whole other rear. at that, i'd probably just end up narrowing the car rear i have to a couple inches narrower than the stock rear and run a decent dish on the wheels.

i'm gonna run the explorer rear for now, and see how bad the back wheels stick out with 255 or so tires. i have a feeling fox mustang wheels would work well with all of their offset, but they're almost always gonna be 4 lug...

[Domestic Disturbance]

I'll just say to your first comment that'd be pretty cool.

Especially with the new forum and more advertising it'd become more of a Automotive/Technical site too which might attract more people as well and be easier to look for information. I like it

Its not really a technical forum, and with such a broad category of vehicles and limited technical discussion it seems like just more stuff in the way. Its not like the general auto section is being overwhelmed either. Thats just my opinion.

[sLoWnStEaDy]

I'll just say to your first comment that'd be pretty cool.

Especially with the new forum and more advertising it'd become more of a Automotive/Technical site too which might attract more people as well and be easier to look for information. I like it

Its not really a technical forum, and with such a broad category of vehicles and limited technical discussion it seems like just more stuff in the way. Its not like the general auto section is being overwhelmed either. Thats just my opinion.


I think it would look a lot more "professional" to have sections. I am on probably 30+ car forums and I honestly think this is the only (or at least one of very few) one that just has a single section for EVERYTHING tech related that isn't car specific.

It's like having a car audio forum with one section for every question there is to be asked but then different section for certain brands. Doesn't make a lot of sense IMO. I think the reason the general section isn't being "overwhelmed" is because it's pretty much the same small group of people on this site all the time. At least, active people anyways. Most of the active people don't have any real major projects going on either and those of us that do don't ask a TON of questions usually.

90%+ of the time I have a question, I go to one of my forums that has different sections and ask it there. Generally, people are going to just "hang out" in say a suspension section or interior section unless they know something about it.

[sLoWnStEaDy]

To clarify... I am not saying there is anything "wrong" with this site but right now it is just a hang out spot IMO. Like an online Wal-Greens full of people who just like to shoot the shit and a few people actually do stuff and like the technical aspect of it. I guess I just want more of a technical place than a hang out. God knows there are enough people on here that know enough shit to make this "a place for learning"!

[Domestic Disturbance]

IMO I think of this site of more of a hang out spot and hub for car enthusiasts. Its a local car forum, not a world wide technical forum. Unless people all of the sudden felt the need to flood the forum with more detailed information, why expand on a section that see's maybe 5 threads a month?

[sLoWnStEaDy]

IMO I think of this site of more of a hang out spot and hub for car enthusiasts. Its a local car forum, not a world wide technical forum. Unless people all of the sudden felt the need to flood the forum with more detailed information, why expand on a section that see's maybe 5 threads a month?

My point is that I think the main reason there isn't more technical stuff is because there aren't specific sections for it.

[sLoWnStEaDy]

ANYWAYS... since this is one of the few technical posts on this site, lets keep it technical! I don't want this to turn into a hang out and bullshit thread...