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Caleb
05-04-2010, 11:43 PM
I'm trying to narrow down the culprit of my fuel issue and its weird to explain and I may have found it just need some advice.

This is something that's been going on for a while now and we see it happen all the time at the track. I approach the lane to do a burnout. I start doing it and the following things have happened:

1. Do a burnout and when I let off the gas it dies and I have to push my pedal to the floor and start it meaning little to no fuel. And this is at normal idle temps and so forth.

2. Do a burnout, roll up to the line, start stalling and then when I give it half throttle to take off, again runs out of fuel and dies and again, push the pedal to the floor to get it started and proceed to embarrass myself down the track again.

3. Skip the burn out, stall, take off strong and then sometimes during 2nd and 3rd gear, top end is fuel starved between 4,000-6,500 RPM SOMETIMES. Its random when it decides to starve and sometimes it doesn't do it at all.

The last visit up at the track we noticed that the fuel was boiling in the air filter between the carb and regulator. So we found it was vapor locking under extreme heat. So I insulated the fuel line as best as I could with 3/8's rubber hose and 2 layers of Heat Reflective tape that was directly by the headers. I couldn't quite get the 12 inches of line that I could see that's running by the lower side of the headers, but just the main portion coming out of the heads. For some strange reason that helped drop the temp of the engine oddly enough ( maybe because the fuel wasn't as hot?). And after driving for an hour I noticed its not boiling but after I get done driving and let it sit and idle for about 5-10 minutes, I see a few bubbles start popping up from the regulator side of the fuel filter.

Right now the cars fuel pump(Inline Holley Blue) is behind the rear drivers side seat on the outside and my exhaust dumps about in that spot. Were thinking about relocating it just on the inside of the car to reduce the temps on the fuel pump(since it has metal casing) unit itself just in case if that's heating the fuel as its being pumped up to the front.

But here's the weird thing, I start it up and the engine is still cold and it warms up for the few minutes. I take off and decided to give it a little gas to get it going up to about 3,000 rpm, nothing major and then it just poof poofs and dies and again, and I notice this happens during just slight slight inclines in the road when less then a 1/4 of a tank. It just repeats the symptoms from the track of being fuel starved but yet not under any really extreme conditions.

And also when I decided to take it to a vacant road while the engine temp is around 140F(still getting to normal idle temps) and run it through the gears hard. Sometimes it runs perfectly with no engine starving of fuel and then other times, 2nd and 3rd just don't wanna go anywhere past 4-5k sometimes.

I'm tempting to pull the tank and buy a new float and sock for it. Re-run all the fuel lines and insulate them and see how that runs after that. And if it doesn't work, I've thought about maybe adjusting the secondaries on the carb, or running a slightly richer set for no top end fuel starvation.

My guesstimate is that I'm running around 425 crank horsepower with the Edelbrock Performer RPM package ( http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new ... _410.shtml (http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/crate_engines/performer_rpm_410.shtml) ) w/ flat top pistons running 10:1 and .030 over. I'm running just under 6psi on the regulator for fuel. I'm running this carb and I know a lot of you guys hate Edelbrocks but its just what I'm using and what the dads used to adjusting.

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new ... nder.shtml (http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/carbs_acc/thunder.shtml)

650cfm Manual Choke and is that sufficient enough for what I'm running?

So my ultimate question is? Other than vapor locking, anyone else know what could be the issue? Or am I on the right track with finding the culprit?

DustinsDuster
05-05-2010, 04:50 AM
are you sure youre getting enough voltage to the fuel pump? the pump could be getting hot. id also recommend NOT putting the pump in the car; as long as you want to race at the track anyway.

Scott
05-05-2010, 07:50 AM
tough one to diagnose, I would suggest running a fuel pressure gauge where you can see it so when the problem does pop up again you can make sure its a fuel pressure problem and not something else. alot of times when cars die after the burnout box its fuel sloshing out of the vent tubes, possibly the needle and seat sticking in the carb or not sealing for whatever reason. Not sure how the edelbrock carb works anymore but maybe try running a rubber line from front to rear vent tube with holes cut or drilled in the top of it so it can still breath

Caleb
05-05-2010, 05:52 PM
are you sure youre getting enough voltage to the fuel pump? the pump could be getting hot. id also recommend NOT putting the pump in the car; as long as you want to race at the track anyway.

Good to know Dustin, And we installed the fuel pump as directed in the manual with a inline 7amp fuse. So its installed correctly. Although I may have my battery checked out because when I drove all the way up to cedar falls on the 28th. Micah and I stopped at Oreillys up there and when I shut my car off, the fan still goes. But we were in there less than 5 minutes and when I came back out to start it up. Battery was clicking and not wanting to turn over so I may have possible power issues with the battery. I swear if its not one thing its another lol.

And Scott we have a ventilated line coming from the tank with a breather on it and haven't seen fuel leaking or and issues of that sort.

The plan right now is to drop the tank, replace the sock. Completely re-route the fuel lines and insulate them to avoid any contact with any exhaust/heat source to avoid the vapor lock problem. Check the pressure on the fuel lines and vacuum lines to make sure everything is right. I just wish this bitch of a problem will go away.

sparkles
05-05-2010, 06:39 PM
Are you using the stock metal fuel lines then?

Scott
05-06-2010, 08:01 AM
I was talking about the vents on the carb itself, not the fuel tank. when you do a burnout and empty the fuel bowls fuel starts rushing in when the needle and seat opens and thats usually right when you let off the gas "when doing a burnout" then when you hit the brakes the fuel will literally slosh out of the carb vents and go down the carb into the intake killing the motor or making it want to die. I guess Im saying you want to make sure its running out of fuel and not actually getting TOO much fuel. Just something I've encountered myself

Caleb
05-06-2010, 11:46 AM
Yeah I believe its stock 3/8's metal lines. You possibly suggesting bigger lines Sparkles?

And yeah Scott just from what Jake told me, if it dies like that and you put the pedal to the floor and crank it over and it starts easily, which it does, its running out of fuel. So that's my assumption. But well look into it the next time were up at the track.

Caleb
05-15-2010, 12:10 PM
Took my car to Professional Muffler and had them look at it. And my fuel lines run right in line with the exhaust so no doubt its getting heat from near the fuel pump all the way to the front of the engine causing boiling gas issues. :banghead: So Monday were getting the exhaust re-ran and instead of dumping out behind the axle, well have pipe shooting out the rear so I won't have exhaust smell coming into the car. And also eliminate an almost 90 degree bend in a pipe coming off the header where its more smoothed out and flow better.

My dad and I will just relocate/replace the fuel lines to avoid any heat from the exhaust or engine and then well re-tune it and go from there. Hopefully this will make a huge difference on the car and for my personal sake, enjoy driving in stop and go so I don't have to smell the exhaust.

Deimos
05-15-2010, 06:29 PM
run em and gun them big shooter.

Caleb
05-15-2010, 07:16 PM
Btw Jake, the exhaust is 3" mufflers with 2.5" piping. Not a true dual 3 inch lol.

Deimos
05-15-2010, 08:12 PM
Those bastards lied to me. Eh either way the dude that did it doesn't do exhuast or work on cars anymore.

Caleb
05-18-2010, 01:30 AM
You oughta see the exhaust now Jake :-)

derek072887
05-18-2010, 09:01 AM
i was always under the impression that to start an engine that is flooded you have to hold the throttle wide open to get as much air in there as possible... i think you are having a flooding issue rather then a lean issue after your burn out...

I would do as scott suggested with the vent line to stop the sloshing into the intake mani. and then for the top end problem do the larger fuel lines to see if you are running out up top.

Caleb
05-18-2010, 10:49 AM
i was always under the impression that to start an engine that is flooded you have to hold the throttle wide open to get as much air in there as possible... i think you are having a flooding issue rather then a lean issue after your burn out...

I would do as scott suggested with the vent line to stop the sloshing into the intake mani. and then for the top end problem do the larger fuel lines to see if you are running out up top.

Remember when you go WOT you're letting in more gas too. More gas on top of a flooded engine = not starting at all and cranking forever till starter burns out. But as I said, I think we narrowed it down to a vapor lock issue that we've seen gas boiling inside the inline fuel filter. Gas is just evaporating as its trying to make it to the carb and that's why I'm having the issue I was.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapor_lock

69gt4speed
05-19-2010, 02:54 AM
Hey btw is this a return bypass regulator system? In other words a line goes back to tank so 2 lines into tank, supply and return. That will completely eliminate any vapor locking bs as fuel is flowing all the time. Costs more to do but is best way.

Caleb
05-20-2010, 11:30 AM
I think there is 2 lines running to the front but one of the lines is blocked off or vented or something and were only running one gas line. Not sure.

Deimos
05-20-2010, 10:24 PM
Like my style would be a return style. 10 An feed, 8 an return

z28z34man
06-09-2010, 09:16 AM
Remember when you go WOT you're letting in more gas too. More gas on top of a flooded engine = not starting at all and cranking forever till starter burns out.

not true there would be so little booster signal at cranking rpms that very little gas compared to the extra air coming in from butterflies being open. if it were extremely lean you would have to pump the gas peddle so the accelerator pump will squirt in extra fuel

at least that is how things work on a Holley based carb

also how far is the pump from the tank. electric pumps are meant to push not pull the closer to the tank the better

Caleb
06-09-2010, 05:57 PM
We ended up replacing the alternator because multiple diodes were out in the alternator so it wasn't pushing enough fuel and the battery was draining and the electrical wasn't up to snuff. Probably explains why my engine would get fairly hot and the fan was probably shutting off. Got a carb spacer and exhaust redone and everything seems to be working just fine right now no WOT issues. So well see the next time I take it to the track. Pump is right next to the tank, not far away at all.

sLoWnStEaDy
06-09-2010, 08:07 PM
I suggest you buy a ford.... ;)

Deimos
06-09-2010, 09:04 PM
Fixed Or Repaired Daily

backwards

Driver Returns On Foot

sparkles
06-09-2010, 09:19 PM
Found on road dead

Michael_mx6_2gen
06-09-2010, 10:06 PM
If you still want a different battery even after you replaced the Alternator, I have an Optima Red top 1000ca and 800cca about a year old... Won't exactly fit under my mazda hood. Took it out of a crx with a relocation kit

Deimos
06-09-2010, 10:07 PM
Nope you got that wrong the 4x4 guys say it's...

Found Off Road Dead darn leaky distributor caps get ya stranded everytime.