1g vs 2g (need help deciding)

[n8kerns]

Thinking about getting back into these things. In case ya'll don't know/remember I owned a maroon/black cherry 1st gen Eagle Talon TSI, had a 4 page post of issues on here and ended up selling it. So this time I want to start from scratch and do it my way (whether that be wrong or right idk yet) Anyway onto the questions at hand. I'm basically trying to figure out whether to get a 1g or a 2g.

Having a 1g I was use to OBD1 is there an advantage/disadvantage to having OBD2? What are the pro's and con's of the 1g vs the 2g. Is one easier to work with? And do 2g's ride/drive like 1g's?

[Clinical]

I'll be honest I'm not sure how much valid info I can give as I've only owned 1g's and Drifte's talon is the only turbo dsm I've had.

I'm simply a fan of the 1g bodystyle more, I just feel like it looks more like a sports car and less like a car oriented toward the "teen racer" look if you get what I mean?(Not stereotyping or anything, just not sure how else to put how I view 2g's) although I do dig the 2gb DSM's, would kill for a clean 2gb gunmetal talon :P

My understanding is that the 2g's handle better than the 1g's due to their improved wishbone suspension.

Of course if you find a 90-92.5 1g you'll most likely have the more desirable 6bolt unless you find a swapped 2g or your swap one (im sure you know that though, I'm just stating the obvious :P)

As for the difficulty of working on one or the other, I don't think it would be much different. I'd rather work on a 1g, just looks more simple overall. Although 2g's may have less rattles/interior noises than a typical 1g - I know even mine has its share of noises.

Either way with a 1g, it's still a nearly 20 year old car and will probably show it in some areas. IE: Headliner/different lines/interior/paint/etc. You'll probably spend less on a 1g initially but if you get one that needs attention you may end up doing maintenance taking you to the price you would of payed for a clean 2g anyway. However even the 2g's are up there in age now.

Just depends basically on what you prefer and what kind of a deal you can find.

[TbTalon94]

If you want it to handle well, get a 2g

If you want to go fast in a straight line get a 1g

2gs are more difficult to work on. They have less space in the bay and the suspension is a pain in the ass.

Both 1g or 2g are going to have the regular "dsm" problems because they are old cars. Whatever you do just get one that was taken care of.

[drfast4ward]

you want an almost perfect dsm, buy a 2g stick a 1g motor in it, keep it right around 350 whp, throw a four spider diff in it, and have fun. The ride is 10 times better it looks better. If you throw some wheels on it, and if you have a choice of anything, buy a 97 to 99 eclipse or a 97 98 talon. those year are the best looking.

just my opinion.

[n8kerns]

Since I will have a reliable daily driver this time I would like to get a shell or one with a blown motor something along those lines. I plan on putting it in my dads shop and it will be a long term project whenever money lets me work on it. So as long as its not dented or rusted the rest Im willing to replace over time. And as for looks, personally Im a fan of 1gb and 2gb talons and eclipses (lately been into the 2gb talons). Looks arent to big of a deal to me.

I never knew the 2g engine bay was smaller that is kind of a bummer because the 1g was pretty tight. Ive also heard that 2gs turn better and 1gs go straight better, is it enough to really effect the times on either the strip or autoX/road course?

What about OBD1 vs 2, my dad said 2 would be easier to diagnose but I know its also picky about things to.

It probably makes it difficult not saying what I want to do with it but I kind of just want to do a little of everything. Just a fun weekend/summer car. One thing I really want to do though is run a 12.9 once in its lifetime. Idk what kind of HP that needs though or if its a high goal.

gotta get back to work now, managers going crazy with paging

[TbTalon94]

lol a 12.9 with a 1g is: 255 pump, exhaust, intake, and boost controller. And a good driver of course.

[FiFdYnUtZ]

so you had a 4 page post on how many issues it had and you want to get another? uhhhhhh...

[n8kerns]

lol a 12.9 with a 1g is: 255 pump, exhaust, intake, and boost controller. And a good driver of course.

When I had my first one I had the thought that it was pretty easy but I couldn't keep up with maintenance long enough to do some real upgrades. Since I want to start fresh with this one I think I should be able to do it no problem. I just don't understand why it wouldn't be that easy with a 2g too. (assuming I use a 6bolt with a 1g head/intake/TB)


so you had a 4 page post on how many issues it had and you want to get another? uhhhhhh...

Its a real love hate relationship with these cars =P Love it when their running, hate it when their not.

[Drifte]

you wont be starting fresh unless someone time traveled from 91. Its going to be a lot of maintanence before modifications. A lot of maintanance can include modifications too, but its a loong road. I have a 93 tsi fwd auto with nearly all of its parts still in/on/around it you can pick up cheap for parts if you want.

[TbTalon94]

lol a 12.9 with a 1g is: 255 pump, exhaust, intake, and boost controller. And a good driver of course.

When I had my first one I had the thought that it was pretty easy but I couldn't keep up with maintenance long enough to do some real upgrades. Since I want to start fresh with this one I think I should be able to do it no problem. I just don't understand why it wouldn't be that easy with a 2g too. (assuming I use a 6bolt with a 1g head/intake/TB)

Because 2g's are heavier and come with T-25 turbos (if u got a stock one).

[n8kerns]

you wont be starting fresh unless someone time traveled from 91. Its going to be a lot of maintanence before modifications. A lot of maintanance can include modifications too, but its a loong road. I have a 93 tsi fwd auto with nearly all of its parts still in/on/around it you can pick up cheap for parts if you want.

If I get a shell I will be using an all new engine (cept the block/head core obviously it'll be re-fresh). This includes waterpump, belts and gaskets. This wont be a one season thing, even if I find a shell tomorrow this thing probably wouldn't leave the garage for a year. Seeing how I have a car, and I don't NEED to buy parts to get this one running I have more room to buy the good stuff. It also wouldn't have a stock turbo, and since it would just be a for-fun drag car I wouldn't need to follow any of the class rules for that but I might have to take a look at auto-x class rules so I'm not running against ridiculous cars just because one part I have puts me there.

I appreciate all the info, I think the biggest factor will be what deal I come across first. I've been checking craigslist and the veridian swapsheet religiously and I googled for some dsm forums from close. Got some from MN and IL I'll be watching. If any of you know of any shell's/"wont run" deals let me know.

[n8kerns]

Hmm came across a few deals.

How expensive is it to have someone paint a car fully, engine bay door jams the works? With normal paint, nothing fancy.

Also how bad the auto hurt me? If I get a rebuilt tranny, external cooler, shift kit and a manual shift box (what I had planned for my old one)

[DustinsDuster]

theres a pretty awesome deal on a 2g on Dragsource right now. its in pieces, but everything's there to reassemble it and then some. not bad for $2k:

http://www.dragsource.net/board/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=11325

[Clinical]

Hmm came across a few deals.

How expensive is it to have someone paint a car fully, engine bay door jams the works? With normal paint, nothing fancy.

Also how bad the auto hurt me? If I get a rebuilt tranny, external cooler, shift kit and a manual shift box (what I had planned for my old one)

If you have the money for the auto, go for it and it'll perform well. Otherwise I'd suggest just getting a M/T and if you can afford it, have it rebuilt by shepracing or tre.

As for painting, well even I or anyone could paint a car just to look decent enough and be one color lol.

However a real professional paint job can range from 2k and up.
Check on tuners for the $70 or $100 paint job thread or w/e it's called.
It actually can turn out pretty good and will look near factory if you do it right.

Just depends whether or not you're doing it, what your painting skills are.
I think there are a few people here who are good with painting cars who you could probably talk to as well.

[n8kerns]

I saw that Dustin and thanks but that is out of price range without getting financial assistance. And since that one is complete it would take away from starting new =) That's the part I'm most excited about.

I actually found a 94 Talon AWD with a bad auto tranny asking 700 OBO...only downfall being its auto (if thats a downfall?) and its butt ugly forest green. Soo that would put a paintjob on the list of things to do. I'll hopefully go check it out tomorrow.

Oh and I wouldn't trust myself to paint it, it would be so much work for someone else to undo and redo after I mess it up. =P Paint isn't something I'd like to spend money on but I can't complain, it'll make the 15 year old car look a little newer and more personal I guess.

[Clinical]

Keep in mind a 94 will have the 7bolt unless it was swapped.

If you're truly wanting to start fresh, you won't be able to do it for less than 1k. Assuming you want a fresh tranny, clean shell, fresh motor and all.

But if you want an actual project to rebuild over a good length of time sounds like you may of found a good deal, assuming them otor is in good shape. I personally would never get an auto DSM unless I still had my talon and was only getting it for a DD. But its all up to you, it'll be nice for consistency.

[DustinsDuster]

i think he meant initial cost wise, and really, he could start with a gutted shell of an AWD 2g, and buy parts along the way if he wanted; especially if he wants to swap to a 6 bolt anyway.

hell, i got my complete running '90 GS with a couple upgrades for $750. deals are out there if youre patient.

[TbTalon94]

There is nothing wrong with a 7bolt. It's lighter rotating mass.

Curt Brown has put down 500+ with a stock 7bolt.

A lot of DSM guys are going to auto now becuase they don't break the trannies anymore.

[DustinsDuster]

here's a $700 '90 Laser if you're looking for a core 6 bolt for your build.

just an idea- are you absolutely married to the idea of DSM and AWD? just saying, you could get a StarQuest, go 4G63/4G64 and RWD drive without a ton of trouble. getting a lot easier and theres a ton of info on the swap sites i frequent.

[n8kerns]

I should be buying the 94 that I talked about in the previous post...hoping someone doesn't call him in the next 2 days and give him a better offer. Complete car, bone stock not even a boost controller or boost gauge. Just has a cracked valve body and he hit a curb and messed up a rim and broke 2 wheel studs off. From Florida so no visible rust but it will need a new fender, hood (had a run-in with a truck and was never fixed) and a paint job because I can't stand the ugly green. I'm thinking about driving it this summer because it will have better gas mileage than my cougar. If I make the purchase I will get pics up asap, probably start a thread in the "Members rides" section of the forums =) Or continue the old one if I ever started one, don't think I did though.

Ahh this thing is proving itself worthy already, haven't stopped smiling since he accepted my offer lol

[Drifte]

I have a good passenger side fender, and hood. Its red, but yea. straight. Have a couple tb's, intake manifolds, a head, a block, minty valve cover etc.

[Clinical]

Do you still have your black hood Drifte?

[n8kerns]

I may just PM you about that hood/fender. I checked car-part.com and Wilkens & Son have a green hood/fender and they want $150 for the pair so I might go with that just so I don't have to make fun of myself for having a mix match car. I always laugh at others that have it =P

I do have a question for you guys though if I can say it with confusing everyone.

Ok so I know 2nd gen's came with a 7bolt and their intake/intake ports on the head are smaller. Are 1st gen 7bolt heads the same smaller size as 2nd gen's or are they technically 6bolt heads on a 7bolt?

[TbTalon94]

a 1g head is a 1g head, 6bolt or 7bolt. 2g heads are different, all of them.

[Drifte]

Do you still have your black hood Drifte?
yep

[n8kerns]

a 1g head is a 1g head, 6bolt or 7bolt. 2g heads are different, all of them.

Alright thank you, I figured that's how it was but just to make sure.

[Clinical]

Too bad you don't have more money to start with.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?c ... dard=false (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=276381158&dealer_id=1390850&car_year=1992&rdm=1268842123450&lastStartYear=1981&num_records=25&model=TALON&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=1981&engine=&keywordsrep=&keywordsfyc=&certified=&fuel=&body_code=0&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=0&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&showZipError=n&first_record=26&make=EAGLE&color=&keywords_display=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&seller_type=b&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=03079&advanced=&end_year=2011&pager.offset=25&transmission=&doors=&max_price=&cardist=842&standard=false)

Nice low mileage clean and stock :P

[slow ride]

Almost. A 7 bolt has smaller holes for the 11mm headstuds. They can be drilled out to fit the 12mm 6 bolt studs though.



a 1g head is a 1g head

[n8kerns]

As long as the intake port isn't small like the 2nd gen 7bolt I'll be alright =P

Yea I'll be happy with this one. It only has 40k more miles and is A LOT cheaper. Not going to say how much I'm paying until I own it. Suppose to be getting it tomorrow at 7ish or whenever my dad gets off work, he has the truck/trailer.

[TbTalon94]

Almost. A 7 bolt has smaller holes for the 11mm headstuds. They can be drilled out to fit the 12mm 6 bolt studs though.



a 1g head is a 1g head

Ya know i've heard that a lot, but I never ran into that with 1g heads. They were all the same to me. Even the one that came on my 94 7bolt motor...fit on a 6bolt block with no drilling. Either i've never had a 7bolt head or the heads i got were already drilled...which i doubt.

I know for sure the 2g 7bolt heads run 11m studs though, and when guys put 2g heads on 6bolt blocks (better combo fyi) they have to drill out the stud passages.

[Drifte]

I had to drill 7bolt 1g head to fit ARP 6 bolt studs.

[TbTalon94]

Yea maybe i'm just lucky lol.

Honestly though, like I said before...there is nothing wrong with 7bolts. Crankwalk is over-rated and hyped.

[Sleeping]

Went at looked at this same car....it needs some love....

[n8kerns]

Yea its a little rough on the outside and interior. Its having the same problem my old talon had with the side panels falling off but I have an idea of what to use from my last Talon. After I get a fender and a hood the rest is just minor cosmetic things like a small crack in bottom of the rear bumper small bend at the end of the door. But theres no rust anywhere so I think it will make a great base.

The best part is its bone stock and "reliable" as reliable as these things get I think. I probably wont touch the engine (aside from maintenance of course) until I get the exterior and interior up to my standards. I'll have pics up whenever this snow melts -_-

Also anybody know the best/cheapest way to get a valve body? IPT wants 500 for one with a shift kit.