STOCK Cars, Camaro on top still

[sparkles]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-uTjaQ6E7g

Chevy must be paying off Motortreand. No way anything is better then the all mighty Stang.

[allgo]

Who cares??? Camaro is a cool car but it wont out sell the mustang, kinda like that fireturd in your avator, you going to order a 2010 one of those? Oh thats right they dont make them anymore cause they where so popular..lol

[K-ville]

there is no doubt that ford needs to up the anti in a big way with the gt but it will take awhile to get them to they havnt had a car to compete with in awhile and unlike chevy ford isnt willing to focus on a nitch performance market while there company is tanking. i do love the fact that camaro vs. stang days are back even though we are on the loosing end at the moment

[69gt4speed]

At the moment maybe, in spring 5.0 then the 6.2l will make gm ask for some more money......

[NewSpeedSteed]

Hate to magazine race but didn't Car And Driver do that same comparison a month or two ago? They had the Mustang come out on top, they even said that the other two cars were both faster than the Mustang (they also tested the GT) but the Mustang offered a better overall package. In retrospect though, comparing a plan Mustang GT to a top of the line Camaro SS and almost top of the line Challenger R/T (top of the line would have been the SRT-8) it just makes me wonder why wouldn't they have used the GT500?

[DustinsDuster]

the Challenger R/T is the lowest model you can get with the V8- they tested it for the same reason they didnt test the GT500 i would assume- wanting to test every car with the base V8 in it. the Camaro im not sure on though- isnt there a lower option one that would be more comparable to the lower level R/T and GT?

[K-ville]

i think the auto is like 25hp less by tune but the same motor

[69gt4speed]

^ yea they detuned it what a guy at work w 6 speed s/s said... He got a plate that says snkeater...lol
All I gotta say is the new base 400hp 5.0 will run away from that 426hp camaro, you'll see, be no doubt then. Now its a tenth or 2. I like the camaro and all that but man it's a porker...Now I'll go back to watching chickenfoot on youtube... :bigthumb:

[sparkles]

Who cares??? Camaro is a cool car but it wont out sell the mustang, kinda like that fireturd in your avator, you going to order a 2010 one of those? Oh thats right they dont make them anymore cause they where so popular..lol
I care dickface. Ouch. Fireturd. How original. Kinda like if I called you a Slowstang owner. :vom: Guess I can make the same comparison to the Capris, ya know...cause they were oh so popular. Flame it up. I just like to stir the pot.

[Clinical]

lol me and my friends all proudly call my car the glorious fireturd.

I love Mustangs but I still prefer Firebirds :)

Of course camaros too but I've almost always liked firebirds looks better.

In general - I love all Muscle cars and am not overly biased at all..

Of the new cars - I like the new challenger the best.

If I had the money to buy one of the new cars though, I wouldn't. I'd go with something like a 98-02 WS6 though and put the extra into it. The new breed of muscle cars are all just big heavy slugs that really don't appeal to me - even if they are fast.

[Domestic Disturbance]

Of the new cars - I like the new challenger the best.



Ya I saw a black srt8 challenger the other night and it blew me away how that I'd forgotten how mean they look. Btw L99 that comes in the autos is more than just a detuned ls3, as it comes with VVT and displacement on demand.
Also another thing to say since you mentioned sales, Camaro has outsold mustang every month since its release. Who knows how long that will last, but its nice to hear for once. :cop:

[allgo]

Hey clown boy I heard your car is real fast on the spray....lol,

[69gt4speed]

Camaro has outsold mustang every month since its release. Who knows how long that will last, but its nice to hear for once.

That will end soon, all the old guys will have bought one...You ever sit in one? Can't see squat out back and holy sh-t try to rest your arm on door panel. Worse than the old one (fbody) w that big hump there plus they weigh almost 4k. Worse than the 69 camaro or stang w fastback. It's retro alright and impractical and a porker w a irs..New stang has 2 piece driveshaft that sucks, but easy remedy. I'm all happy for the new camaro but you'll see a f body was the fastest via the weight.

[Clinical]

Honestly I'm looking for the Mustangs to come out on top in the following years with the new 5.0 and the fact they aren't making the mustangs quite the porker the rest are.

Who knows

[DustinsDuster]

it bums me out because im pretty sure Chrysler will never lighten up the Challenger- just doesnt seem like something theyd do. its got a great drivetrain, and looks good, just put that fucker on a diet!

[FiFdYnUtZ]

im still on the fence on the looks of all of them, but im die hard gm, so fuck ford and dodge :)

[Domestic Disturbance]

That will end soon, all the old guys will have bought one...You ever sit in one? Can't see squat out back and holy sh-t try to rest your arm on door panel. Worse than the old one (fbody) w that big hump there plus they weigh almost 4k. Worse than the 69 camaro or stang w fastback. It's retro alright and impractical and a porker w a irs..New stang has 2 piece driveshaft that sucks, but easy remedy. I'm all happy for the new camaro but you'll see a f body was the fastest via the weight.

Opinions opinions opinions... I have sat in quite a few, and I wholeheartedly disagree with how comfortable they are. thats like on SVTP everyone was complaining about their 'cheap plastic' interior. Just looking for stuff to say negatively about it, funny edmunds consumer reports C&D automobile all the people who also test much higher end cars all consider the materials good quality, comfortable, etc.

I also know that will end soon rob, thats why I said what I did. Thats the mustangs claim to fame, cheaper and high sales.

[FiFdYnUtZ]

i personally liked the interior of the camaro a lot, although i agree with rob on the rear window being impossible to see out of...

[K-ville]

id be happy to have one of each modded all to hell in my garage sitting next to each other.... if i had to pic two it would be the stang and the mopar simply cuz im a stang fan and the mopar seems like it would be a nicer car to drive daily than the other two. if I had to pic one I honestly dont know what I would pic.... there all cool and all have ups and downs

[black88gt]

Opinions opinions opinions... I have sat in quite a few, and I wholeheartedly disagree with how comfortable they are. thats like on SVTP everyone was complaining about their 'cheap plastic' interior. Just looking for stuff to say negatively about it, funny edmunds consumer reports C&D automobile all the people who also test much higher end cars all consider the materials good quality, comfortable, etc.


Interior Design and Special Features

Muscle cars have traditionally had bland interiors (a trend that continues with the Camaro's Ford and Dodge competition), but the Camaro laudably mixes retro touches like square gauge hoods and the available four-pack of auxiliary gauges with common-sense modern ergonomics. On the downside, there are a few ergonomic annoyances. The steering wheel is overstyled and doesn't fit human hands the way it should; the same goes for the bizarrely shaped manual shift knob. We also dislike the main gauges (they're hard to read) and the dead pedal (it isn't angled properly for comfortable cruising). Other issues include lackluster interior materials quality, the lack of an optional factory navigation system and the Camaro's tiny trunk opening, making loading elongated objects an exercise in frustration (golfers be warned). Backseat comfort is marginal, as you'd expect -- there's a shortage of headroom and legroom, so don't expect to use the rear quarters for more than short trips. The rear seats don't fold down, but there's a trunk pass-through.

[K-ville]

Thats the mustangs claim to fame, cheaper and high sales

yea what assholes making a good looking fun little sports car people can actually afford! haha :biggrin:

[Domestic Disturbance]

Haha congrats on finding someone who didn't like it. Majority of what I've read says otherwise, I didn't just make up what I said. Let the endless circle of mustang camaro comparison continue. :butthead:

[sparkles]

it bums me out because im pretty sure Chrysler will never lighten up the Challenger- just doesnt seem like something theyd do. its got a great drivetrain, and looks good, just put that fucker on a diet!

Did they ever put a manual trans in them? I still like em, even if they didn't though. It would definitely be my second choice. You just see too many V6 Mustangs on the road compared to the other 2. Hell, I'd rock the V6 version of the Camaro if need be. 300hp and still has the Night and Day difference in the appearance department like the Mustang does.

[Clinical]

Yeah challengers have a 6speed option

[K-ville]

I love Mustangs but I still prefer Firebirds

i just got to thinkin arent you the one who was all excited about getting a v6 stang?!

[DustinsDuster]

it bums me out because im pretty sure Chrysler will never lighten up the Challenger- just doesnt seem like something theyd do. its got a great drivetrain, and looks good, just put that fucker on a diet!

Did they ever put a manual trans in them? I still like em, even if they didn't though. It would definitely be my second choice. You just see too many V6 Mustangs on the road compared to the other 2. Hell, I'd rock the V6 version of the Camaro if need be. 300hp and still has the Night and Day difference in the appearance department like the Mustang does.

yeah, ive read they couldnt get the 6 speed sorted out in time for the 2009 line, but for the '10 line, the 6 speed could be had in both the SRT8 and the R/T. really, for $10k cheaper, the R/T is a better deal- considering the only real differences are the 5.7 vs. the 6.1(376hp vs. 425hp), the Brembo brakes and the forged wheels. hell, for $10k, you could have a 500whp R/T!

[NewSpeedSteed]

it bums me out because im pretty sure Chrysler will never lighten up the Challenger- just doesnt seem like something theyd do. its got a great drivetrain, and looks good, just put that fucker on a diet!

Did they ever put a manual trans in them? I still like em, even if they didn't though. It would definitely be my second choice. You just see too many V6 Mustangs on the road compared to the other 2. Hell, I'd rock the V6 version of the Camaro if need be. 300hp and still has the Night and Day difference in the appearance department like the Mustang does.

yeah, ive read they couldnt get the 6 speed sorted out in time for the 2009 line, but for the '10 line, the 6 speed could be had in both the SRT8 and the R/T. really, for $10k cheaper, the R/T is a better deal- considering the only real differences are the 5.7 vs. the 6.1(376hp vs. 425hp), the Brembo brakes and the forged wheels. hell, for $10k, you could have a 500whp R/T!

I also read that parts for the 6.1 hemi will work for the 5.7; people on dodge forums claim the cams and other parts work without issue. The SRT is a badass ride but in reality the R/T would be all you needed.

[69gt4speed]

It would be just great if they lost some pork... I've got a porker and 500whp isn't really enough or 440 whp for that matter... A new vette on the street is a serious challenge w tc on w old joe avg driving. Some 50 yr old that don't drive worth squat could waste most of you in a vette... :bigthumb: Without taking off the gold chain.. Hiway cruiser I'd probably lean to a challenger. But then you have a holes in stangs and camaros wanting to race. So far straight line they aren't quick enough even a srt. Look good though. I don't expect the nicest interior in any of them.

[69gt4speed]

A new stang w weight of say 3.4 3.5k w 400 hp going to be mighty hard to beat imo.. drop that 2 piece driveshaft bs and put on some lowers, tune and et streets go low 12's. You'll see, that was the fox claim to fame w less hp. Lighter is better.. Even the proposed z28 would have problems on the street or track esp w a stick. Perfect driving, need some tires and suspension stuff also. You guys seen what a well hooking 325whp auto can do even vs a 440 whp stick porker on a street dig. I got a azz whippin...by spinning tires and all that. Those new camaros don't hook much better and barely hold a set of golf clubs much less 2 et streets in the back w a 10# nitrous tank. At least the gto you could see out back.. keep your f body imo. camaro is for old guys in retro crisis...

[FiFdYnUtZ]

i dont think ford is going to have much to compete with the z28..

[69gt4speed]

You'll see on a dig I would have no problems wasting z/28, sh-t that 426 hp s/s stick can't even really beat d/d's camaro. Now maybe on a roll be a different story. I just know pork+irs+whp= issues. You know it too... Spinning tires and all that looks cool, gt500 or 03 is a example of that. I did see a bone stock 2010 gt500 w m/t drag radails run a 12.18 w joe avg. but that was like 1 in 5 runs. Way z28 would be, you'll see. If I'm wrong well I say it here when real world track runs occur w joe avg. A stick takes lots of whp w a porker w no traction to go decent. You've seen the mph slips.. I'm not sh-tting you w street legal tires. There is no magic...

[69gt4speed]

Fact of the matter 50 your t/a as it sits could waste that z/28 no problem.. I'd lay $ down on your car vs that 550 hp z28 stick w joe avg. from a dig.. Hell I'm a ford guy.

[FiFdYnUtZ]

hmm idk, thats a pretty impressive amount of horsepower the z28 has, but as far as power to weight and such goes im sure i would win on motor...

[69gt4speed]

b
hmm idk, thats a pretty impressive amount of horsepower the z28 has, but as far as power to weight and such goes im sure i would win on motor...

Trust me, hp isn't everything... it helps esp on a roll w traction but a dig it can hurt... So we admit a hi whp new z28 would have issues vs ur t/a in a dig race? I'd say on the street dig Trevors evo would waste it w/o much effort... There's 4 tires digging n there... Really the snkeater s/s w stock stuff isn't a race w the driver vs you, d/d or me. I've seen his best and a newer base vette will walk away at any speed w tc on. D/d might have a race, it would be close... You or I have him by 2nd gear..550+ hp isn't all that w/o serious tires esp w a stick... Look at a gt500 and it's got a sra. For yrs a old fox did in a camaro via the weight. It was a no brainer. Just cause a z28 might have 550+ hp that could be bad news vs a lighter 400 hp stang, All depends on driving ability and luck. As it is they are only a few tenths in the 1/4 and s/s has a huge hp advantage. I'd be worried... I am myself w/o spray, those new gts could beat my azz w good shifting.

[sparkles]

Funny how you're saying that traction would be the issue with the Z, yet on the other topic, everyone is saying the same thing for the Mustang.

[85XR7Project]

Hell, I'd rock the V6 version of the Camaro if need be. 300hp and still has the Night and Day difference in the appearance department like the Mustang does.

You need to remember the weight of the car though, that will seriously put the kibosh on your fun 300 Hp V6 when you realize its to heavy to enjoy that 300hp.


Funny how you're saying that traction would be the issue with the Z, yet on the other topic, everyone is saying the same thing for the Mustang.

Yes, that was the tires. If there were shitty tires on the Camaro you'd say the same thing. I wonder how the outcome would have been with similar tires on all three cars?

[black88gt]

Funny how you're saying that traction would be the issue with the Z, yet on the other topic, everyone is saying the same thing for the Mustang.

What exactly is surprising about that? v8s with positive displacement blowers and factory tires...

[85XR7Project]

Those are specific Shelby wheels not the GT500 wheels. Shelby really dropped the ball on that one.

[sparkles]

Funny how you're saying that traction would be the issue with the Z, yet on the other topic, everyone is saying the same thing for the Mustang.

What exactly is surprising about that? v8s with positive displacement blowers and factory tires...

Nothing is surprising considering the source. Attack the Camaro for lack of traction due to shitty tires, yet come to defense of the Mustang in a related article for the same thing. It's all good. :bigthumb:

[allgo]

You'll see on a dig I would have no problems wasting z/28, sh-t that 426 hp s/s stick can't even really beat d/d's camaro. Now maybe on a roll be a different story. I just know pork+irs+whp= issues. You know it too... Spinning tires and all that looks cool, gt500 or 03 is a example of that. I did see a bone stock 2010 gt500 w m/t drag radails run a 12.18 w joe avg. but that was like 1 in 5 runs. Way z28 would be, you'll see. If I'm wrong well I say it here when real world track runs occur w joe avg. A stick takes lots of whp w a porker w no traction to go decent. You've seen the mph slips.. I'm not sh-tting you w street legal tires. There is no magic...

rob I drove stevos uncles gt500 vert to a 12.07, that thing is a pig to, praoble about 4200 with me in it

[69gt4speed]

All I'm saying is hi whp w a irs and pork it takes tires and a damn good driver, I don't care what car it is. With a pd s/c its like driving a hi ci old car... my friend had a 71 camino w a 454, you need a huge tire in back. Lots of pork, no weight in back same deal. Now you get some good tires and great driver even a porker 2010 gt500 can run mid 11's. I saw joe avg w 2010 do a 12.18 w drag radials bone stock.

And there's the deal 15" tires won't fit w/o serious modifications on camaro or challenger. You can throw on gt brakes on a gt500 cheap. W a 31 spline sra 8.8 you can dump the clutch w/o worry, run 15" slicks or big dr.. Makes a big difference w 15's esp w a stick for joe avg. I'd run 15's in a min if it didn't cost a lot of $ or grinding down the tie rod knuckle. So right now stuck w 17" et streets on replicas. Joe knows all of this just he has the $. I don't. Wife have a fit.... :biggrin:

[69gt4speed]

You'll see on a dig I would have no problems wasting z/28, sh-t that 426 hp s/s stick can't even really beat d/d's camaro. Now maybe on a roll be a different story. I just know pork+irs+whp= issues. You know it too... Spinning tires and all that looks cool, gt500 or 03 is a example of that. I did see a bone stock 2010 gt500 w m/t drag radails run a 12.18 w joe avg. but that was like 1 in 5 runs. Way z28 would be, you'll see. If I'm wrong well I say it here when real world track runs occur w joe avg. A stick takes lots of whp w a porker w no traction to go decent. You've seen the mph slips.. I'm not sh-tting you w street legal tires. There is no magic...

rob I drove stevos uncles gt500 vert to a 12.07, that thing is a pig to, praoble about 4200 with me in it

You seem to be a good stick driver what I remember.... Been a long time since the vette.. You know though that vette even those models were easier than the shelby w street tires. New vettes seem a lot better though what I have seen.. so you get one that ls7 we have some fun..

[allgo]

For sure Rob... I will be in the next 5 and 6 speed race, dont love that trophy to long cause its going to be right next to all my other hardware before you know it..lol

[Clinical]

man screw you guys I'll come take that trophy from everyone with my laser

hell yeah!

[69gt4speed]

For sure Rob... I will be in the next 5 and 6 speed race, dont love that trophy to long cause its going to be right next to all my other hardware before you know it..lol

Victory is a fleeting thing like most anything.. I'll keep this trophy.. we'll get a better one next yr and cfr for sure... I've seen a lot of vids of ls7 w stuff.. beating that is a mighty hard task. :bigthumb:

[69gt4speed]

2010 rs vs 68 rs conv
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxJODfID ... ature=fvwp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxJODfIDMnE&NR=1&feature=fvwp)
2010 rs vs 72 chevelle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BSENHwYFbE&feature=fvw

[sparkles]

Kewl

[69gt4speed]

regal gs vs 2010 rs pkg 2 vid..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXm2sazo ... re=channel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXm2sazo8M4&feature=channel)
4 eyed stick stang vs 2010 rs prob same car as above.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Nz-JZLWuUM

Like when the 03 cobra came out I figure 2010 camaro is fair game on the street. Really that's where stuff is decided on a d/d.

[K-ville]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZhNTDiPTFA

yup! i like this review better :bigthumb:

[K-ville]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_C9zanLc ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_C9zanLcpXY&feature=related)

and this one

[sparkles]

I will say that the Mustang's interior is executed better then the other 2. I just don't get for the sake of this discussion how a faster, higher horse car is not ahead. I'm guessing that the interior and the lack of visibility in the Camaro severely hurt it. I don't buy the whole "Pork" thing. 300lbs more than the Stang. Ok. Put your GF in there and they'll weight the same.

[85XR7Project]

Nice, real nice...

[K-ville]

2. I just don't get for the sake of this discussion how a faster, higher horse car is not ahead.
handling has to count for something.... regardless of weight which yes 300 pounds is nothing in the world of loaded up street cars if the car simply handles better they are going to give it points for that

[FiFdYnUtZ]

but honestly, who on this board (other then a select few) gives two shits about handling? 75% of us run skinnies for shits sake!

[K-ville]

but honestly, who on this board (other then a select few) gives two shits about handling? 75% of us run skinnies for shits sake!

oh no doubt! i personally could give a shit less about cornering although runnin autocross looks fun

[Domestic Disturbance]

I'm still gonna try autocrossing my car sometime. Always down for a good laugh

[FiFdYnUtZ]

yeah your car is still setup pretty decent for autox tho...my stalled big cam auto with dr's and skinnies plus no sway bars would puke all over itself on an autox track i bet lol

[Domestic Disturbance]

Ya. I had the right tires for it too but I think that they might be heat cycled out from sitting the back of my truck.