New mustang info leaked

[69gt4speed]

2011-2012 Mustang Info

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3.7L V6 to be rated at 315 horsepower: Same as 2010 GT; 15 hp more than Camaro V6
No immediate plans for EcoBoost V6 Mustang due to small horsepower gap between EcoBoost and 5.0L V8 (365 vs 400)
2011 Mustang GT to be rated at 400 horsepower, will get increase in 2012
2011 Mustang GT to get 6-speed transmission and variable valve timing
2011 Mustang GT Track Pack to include Brembo brakes
2011 Mustang GT 5.0L V8, 6-speed, track pack, Brembo brakes ran even with 414-hp BMW M3, which is 200 lbs lighter, at GingerMan Raceway in South Haven, Michigan
2011 Shelby GT500 to get Aluminum Block
Next special edition: 2012 Boss

[Clinical]

source for this?

I have seen this on other forums.

HAHAHA the stupid mullet Chevy guys are going to cry once again being owned by a mustang.

[85XR7Project]

Woohoo the 5.0 moniker has returned!!! I am psyched!

[ZEE]

Don't know why they would cry. Looks like it would put the new Camaro and new Mustang pretty close.

V6 Camaro 304 HP
400 and 426 HP SS
Brembo brakes standard on SS
6-speed available since 93

[stangvortech]

WOW a 5.4 al bock in the gt500...... cant wait for that....It was good talking to you rob the other night I will give ya call next weekend and let ya know how it all turned out!

[69gt4speed]

Don't know why they would cry. Looks like it would put the new Camaro and new Mustang pretty close.

The key is if these setups hold for the stang, they are several hundred # lighter. So theory says gt should smoke the camaro ss. Same w a base v6 model vs v6 camaro. Guy at work has a new s/s, it's a huge car. Reminds me of sorta a 300c. And truthfully it was not cheap, he told me over 45k. Course chevy could put a modified wet sump ls7 in the camaro, that should do alright.

Another thing is imo a 8.8 sra is superior in strength to most irs and I'm not real keen on brembo brakes. Sure they work but try putting on some 15" wheels. A real pita if it can be done. The stang being lighter doesn't really need it for drag or street stuff, like a s/s does.

[69gt4speed]

Yes John, just checking up to see how things were going.... It should be a nice project/street runner.

I would hope they use the modified ford gt block, that's a fairly proven piece. Made here in usa also. Ford racing sells them as you know.

[85XR7Project]

I would hope they use the modified ford gt block, that's a fairly proven piece. Made here in usa also. Ford racing sells them as you know.

I don't think that block has a water pump provision. Other than that I agree, an aluminum block would be better than the Cast iron block they have been using since the GT500 debuted.

I also have to agree with you on the Camaro .vs. Mustang thing. Sure the Camaro has more horsepower but its also an overweight b*stard too. For that same reason people think the Challenger SRT8 can smoke a Mustang GT but they can't because they are also fat f***kers. I think the Mustang (GT not special models) may be faster than the Camaro for the second time in its life.

[69gt4speed]

According to this pic it does, a ford gt had a reg water pump, the intercooler pump is elect. like mine. It had the starter on the transaxle and dry sump, this has been converted to the block starter and wet sump.
http://www.fordracingparts.com/images/part/250x250/M-6010-GTWS.jpg

[85XR7Project]

Huh, I'll be darned. Hopefully Ford does it.

[Domestic Disturbance]

the Mustang (GT not special models) may be faster than the Camaro for the second time in its life.

There needs to be a first to be a second, unless you're counting 03-09, or pre 67 :cop:

[Domestic Disturbance]

What v6 is this 3.7L? New engine or barrowed from another car?

Also, look at the dimensions of the '10 mustang vs camaro, they are almost the same. The the proportions that change the way the car looks.

[85XR7Project]

I don't remember specifically which year but I believe it was the 71-73 era. I could be wrong too.

The 3.7 is the engine they are using in the Lincoln MKS IIRC. Its also American made, unlike the current 4.0 which is German.

[Clinical]

I know the original foxbodies were bottlenecked by emissions just like the camaros/firebirds - but they topped out the F-bodies due to being lighter.

[FiFdYnUtZ]

I have seen this on other forums.

HAHAHA the stupid mullet Chevy guys are going to cry once again being owned by a mustang.

your not very intelligent are you?

[69gt4speed]

^I like mullet guys. Camaro guys, stang guys, all car guys. I did hear first hand a new stock v8 camaro ran low 14's at tristate last weekend. Anitas lil bro was there w his chevelle, it went 12.4's on mtr.

[FiFdYnUtZ]

there was a new camaro at cf this weekend too, still had the license applied for in it...irc it was in the 12 sec class...

[K-ville]

I have seen this on other forums.

HAHAHA the stupid mullet Chevy guys are going to cry once again being owned by a mustang.

your not very intelligent are you?

he is no different than you... He just prefers one brand over the other enough that he dont respect the other. Probably mainly becuase he owns a stang and for you because you have a GM product

[FiFdYnUtZ]

yeah but "stupid mullet guys getting owned by a mustang" ?? durrrrrrrr....factory power numbers mean nothing as everyone knows, the mustang could still be a huge turd like other years....and it also doesnt make sense why he would make that statement when the camaro in every model is still making more est. horsepower in every model...

im not a big fan of the new camaro, nor have i EVER been a fan of any factory mustang aside from the two short years ford untucked their balls (03/04) but i could go on for days about the camaros drivetrain...and i wouldnt think its safe to say the mullet boys should have anything to worry about yet...because hell, even if it does beat the mustang, theirs a whole line of corvettes ready to embarass any ford product out there...

[black88gt]

:bigthumb:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/paxtonandrew/GTvGTS.jpg

[stangvortech]

yeah but "stupid mullet guys getting owned by a mustang" ?? durrrrrrrr....factory power numbers mean nothing as everyone knows, the mustang could still be a huge turd like other years....and it also doesnt make sense why he would make that statement when the camaro in every model is still making more est. horsepower in every model...

im not a big fan of the new camaro, nor have i EVER been a fan of any factory mustang aside from the two short years ford untucked their balls (03/04) but i could go on for days about the camaros drivetrain...and i wouldnt think its safe to say the mullet boys should have anything to worry about yet...because hell, even if it does beat the mustang, theirs a whole line of corvettes ready to embarass any ford product out there...

2006 ford gt, 2010 cobra jet,2010 gt500..... would love to embarass any chevy product off the assembly line..... :neener:

[K-ville]

yeah but "stupid mullet guys getting owned by a mustang" ?? durrrrrrrr....factory power numbers mean nothing as everyone knows, the mustang could still be a huge turd like other years....and it also doesnt make sense why he would make that statement when the camaro in every model is still making more est. horsepower in every model...

im not a big fan of the new camaro, nor have i EVER been a fan of any factory mustang aside from the two short years ford untucked their balls (03/04) but i could go on for days about the camaros drivetrain...and i wouldnt think its safe to say the mullet boys should have anything to worry about yet...because hell, even if it does beat the mustang, theirs a whole line of corvettes ready to embarass any ford product out there...
i agree the mullet talk is dumb... i like everything myself as a matter of fact right now i have a subaru parked by a mustang in the garage and a dodge ram by a trailblazer SS (with a broken POS 4L70 that Gm cant make last and wont stand by their product) and they are all mine so out of truely no biast the new camaros are less than appealing to me and alot of them are breaking already..... now dont take that as im saying the mustang is god because im not they are puds that need considerable bolt ons to be up to what I would consider a fast car, but to argue HP is all that matters is a joke every pound less the stangs weighs is free power! if at 300hp vs. what 425? they compare how they do then the little ponycar will be chargin hard with 400... not to say it will be faster cuz how the hell should I know. I would honestly love to have a ZO6 but i wouldnt even tell anyone I had one because I hate the horse shit attitude most vet owners have and i wouldnt want to be associated to it but I would also take a Ford GT over any vet in a hartbeat! end of rant

[FiFdYnUtZ]

yeah but "stupid mullet guys getting owned by a mustang" ?? durrrrrrrr....factory power numbers mean nothing as everyone knows, the mustang could still be a huge turd like other years....and it also doesnt make sense why he would make that statement when the camaro in every model is still making more est. horsepower in every model...

im not a big fan of the new camaro, nor have i EVER been a fan of any factory mustang aside from the two short years ford untucked their balls (03/04) but i could go on for days about the camaros drivetrain...and i wouldnt think its safe to say the mullet boys should have anything to worry about yet...because hell, even if it does beat the mustang, theirs a whole line of corvettes ready to embarass any ford product out there...

2006 ford gt, 2010 cobra jet,2010 gt500..... would love to embarass any chevy product off the assembly line..... :neener:


well all things considered (price tag, classification, etc) the zr1 will outperform every one of those cars in almost every aspect of an automotive competition...right off the bankrupt assembly line ;) those cars are all pigs....

[black88gt]

vette is in a completely different class, its apples to oranges. ford hasnt built a car to compete with the vette since the tbird. this isnt to take anything away from the vette, its a great car with great performance for the money.

just like chevy doesnt have a car to compete w/ the gt500, ford doesnt have a car to compete with the vette.

[FiFdYnUtZ]

but imo the vette is above any ford product, even if it is a class of its own, and fords lack of competition just puts them further away from giving out any "ownings" to gm..

[Domestic Disturbance]

zr1s, z06's, GT's, GTX's, we'd take them all. They are all expensive as balls, and all perform to similar amazing numbers. I hope the base gt mustang steps the horsepower up, cause everytime they do chevy fires back, and the loop continues(5.0 ho/tpi, mod/lt1, ls1/4v). I think this has been the longest its taken ford to come back, but with many reasons. No competition for awhile, and higher price range alternatives making more power.

In that same idea, I hope chevy also comes back with a response to the track pack mustangs. Obviously not a suitable setup for every car, but a good option for those who want more than the name and power.

[black88gt]

hopefully the US 5.0 is something like the one the aussies got this year; the dyno graph i posted above is an ls3 compared to a new 5.0.

[black88gt]

On the upcoming boss:

"The level of work going into this car is amazing, the difference between the GT and the Bullit is nothing compared to the Boss, the engine doesn't receive a CAI and a tune it is getting a overhaul even before the 5.0 is out, the suspension is getting parts swapped everywhere and is being tuned to a level where IRS and LRA argument will be history.

I am not pulling numbers or information out of no where, the numbers I gave came from sources in the project 46k is a good approximation given to me by them on a fully equipped Boss. Your stated 40k is good start price really. I said it before it is not just a fully loaded GT it is much more than that. It will receive a little more than 50hp for sure and the guys working on it are asking to push it more, accounting just has to make sense. The car is not meant to win any horsepower wars though this is a track oriented machine."

[85XR7Project]

I'm happy to see Ford really working to make the Mustang a much tougher car. Its about damn time too! I'll be the first to admit the Camaro and Firebird were great vehicles and have had their day, I think its high time the Mustang took the horsepower advantage and made some of us Ford guys happy people. I totally agree with the previous statement about the Corvette, it always seems when we call out some special model Mustang that is faster than the Camaro the GM guys throw out the Corvette. Throwing out the ZR1 is like be throwing out the Ford GT and comparing it to an Impala SS, its just plain stupid to try to compare. I am however excited to see what GM does in return of Ford doing this, I have an idea of what we'll see but have a few doubts (The fabled/canceled supercharged Z/28). I guess only time will tell.

[K-ville]

but imo the vette is above any ford product, even if it is a class of its own, and fords lack of competition just puts them further away from giving out any "ownings" to gm..
Saleen S7 FTW!

[85XR7Project]

but imo the vette is above any ford product, even if it is a class of its own, and fords lack of competition just puts them further away from giving out any "ownings" to gm..
Saleen S7 FTW!

He'll argue it isn't a Ford or that is costs more or something along those lines. What ever happened to people talking about the Ford GT? Its probably the closest Ford has come to a Vette in recent years.

[K-ville]

but imo the vette is above any ford product, even if it is a class of its own, and fords lack of competition just puts them further away from giving out any "ownings" to gm..
Saleen S7 FTW!

He'll argue it isn't a Ford or that is costs more or something along those lines. What ever happened to people talking about the Ford GT? Its probably the closest Ford has come to a Vette in recent years.
the s7 is by no means fair to throw in but i dont think a 7r1 is either.... the s7 is constantly referd to as fords true supercar and shuts down the vette wins all talk. but that is pure my opinion and i like every car mentioned good thing i cant afford any of them so ill never have to choose haha

[85XR7Project]

I always thought as Vettes as compensation for something lacking in the nether regions of a bald guy's pants (Since bald guys always seem to be driving them.). I'll stick to the Fox chassis in my Merc :D

[FiFdYnUtZ]

the saleen is like previously stated, not a sole ford product....the ford gt would be the only thing imo in the same class as the vette and as cool as it is, its still not enough..

[K-ville]

the saleen is like previously stated, not a sole ford product....the ford gt would be the only thing imo in the same class as the vette and as cool as it is, its still not enough..
the gt handles itself well for a four year older car... im sure it would have improved alot in those years had ford choose to continue them and bankrupt their company

[Domestic Disturbance]

I am however excited to see what GM does in return of Ford doing this, I have an idea of what we'll see but have a few doubts (The fabled/canceled supercharged Z/28). I guess only time will tell.

Direct injection I'm sure is right around the corner. They just need to get around to doing it.

[black88gt]

I am however excited to see what GM does in return of Ford doing this, I have an idea of what we'll see but have a few doubts (The fabled/canceled supercharged Z/28). I guess only time will tell.

Direct injection I'm sure is right around the corner. They just need to get around to doing it.

DI is right around the corner for both engines, cant wait

let there be assloads of boost

[XR4LIFE]

DI is right around the corner for both engines, cant wait

let there be assloads of boost

Its about damn time...

[69gt4speed]

Dig, stock vs stock I'll lay money down on a 2010 stang or a 09 bullit vs the new s/s camaro equal drivers on the street. Why camaro has a very grabby clutch for one, it's a twin. Guy at work stalls his once a day. 2 the big rim tires. 3 the weight. I've ran enough new gt w gear stangs to know they can launch good. On a roll camaro should prevail.

Overall so far as far as camaro, stang or dodge/chrysler goes I see nothing that can run w a 03 w a pulley for the $. Been 6 yrs. Last weekend a 03 auto eaton no spray stang went 10.1's.... Flash he's in 10.0's.. Boost is 2.93/4#. logs say 15.5psi peak in 3rd gear. He's got the weight down to f body range.
new best 60 - 1.37
new best 1/8 - 6.37 @ 107
new best et - 10.05 @ 132

[FiFdYnUtZ]

or you could buy a 4th gen fbody for 1/4 the price of a cobra and put heads/cam/spray on it and put a whoopin on the cobra for less money than it cost to buy the cobra alone..

[black88gt]

or you could buy a 4th gen fbody for 1/4 the price of a cobra and put heads/cam/spray on it and put a whoopin on the cobra for less money than it cost to buy the cobra alone..

"or you could buy a 200 dollar foxbody and put a twin turbo 351 for less money blah blah blah"

this argument could go on forever and its ricer math

[K-ville]

well put its all opinion. you have a guy stating opinion based on his experiance and a gm lover................ its all a matter of what you want simple as that

[FiFdYnUtZ]

yeah i doubt there will ever be an end to the issue..

[stangvortech]

There is no issue,lol for the money and speed mustang wins hans down... there is more -10 stangs out there then camaros................

[FiFdYnUtZ]

because there are MANY more mustangs than camaros out there, i cant swing a dead cat in a mall without hitting 3-4 tilted flat bill hat wearing rustang drivers....for the money is an absolutely ignorant comment because building ford motors is factually much more expensive then building most gm engines...

[69gt4speed]

LOL fifty you know a f body can't do all that w/o pistons and rods. Then you might as well do a stroker ala George. To each there own... how about I get a few practice rounds in this weekend me and you roll and dig? I need to test out the et streets. Btw you can't tell me a built auto, a stall, a stroker mtr doesn't cost like a used 03. To each there own but I wasn't born yesterday. :supz:

[allgo]

well put its all opinion. you have a guy stating opinion based on his experiance and a gm lover................ its all a matter of what you want simple as that


K-ville that is a bad ass blower in your avatar..lol

[FiFdYnUtZ]

LOL fifty you know a f body can't do all that w/o pistons and rods. Then you might as well do a stroker ala George. To each there own... how about I get a few practice rounds in this weekend me and you roll and dig? I need to test out the et streets. Btw you can't tell me a built auto, a stall, a stroker mtr doesn't cost like a used 03. To each there own but I wasn't born yesterday. :supz:

there is a BONE STOCK bottom end ls1 NA heads and cam only that ran 9.80's...and its VERY common occurance to run in the 10's with a very basic heads/cam/spray setup..

and you can build a 40x ls motor for 4k if you shop around..

[85XR7Project]

because there are MANY more mustangs than camaros out there, i cant swing a dead cat in a mall without hitting 3-4 tilted flat bill hat wearing rustang drivers..

That statement right there was just plain retarded. So I can in turn say that every F body owner is a toothless mullet haired hick?


building ford motors is factually much more expensive then building most gm engines...

This is true for a few reasons.
1. Ford has more engine familys than GM.
A. GM= Big block and small block
B. Ford= FE, 385, Windsor, Cleveland, Modular, Modified etc.
2. If you don't know how to save money building a Ford motor don't even try. (Speaking of SBF Windsors here)
3. Our engines aren't as easy to mix parts because of all the families. Meaning parts from a 390 won't work on say a 351. Unlike on a GM where parts on say a 400 will work just fine on say a 350.

You like GM's great, enjoy. We like Fords. We can argue till the end of time which car is better but no one will win. From my stand point the Mustang has for years been a good seller because of PRICE not because it was better in anyway. Sure the Camaro always had more horsepower but GM found out that doesn't sell cars when the price is to high. Maybe GM is starting to learn things from watching Ford. Oh, and remember Camaro fans, if the Mustang had never come to be GM would have never designed the Panther concept which became the Camaro :yawinkle:


/rant

[stangvortech]

because there are MANY more mustangs than camaros out there, i cant swing a dead cat in a mall without hitting 3-4 tilted flat bill hat wearing rustang drivers....for the money is an absolutely ignorant comment because building ford motors is factually much more expensive then building most gm engines...

"absolutely ignorant comment" lol ummm... yea I dont think so........ :butthead:
hahah dont even kid your self that it is cheaper to build a gm/chevy engine.....


K-ville that is a bad ass blower in your avatar..lol
Yes, it is it looks a little bigger then my old s trim though.......

[K-ville]

Yes, it is it looks a little bigger then my old s trim though.......

photoshop works wonders

[Domestic Disturbance]

"absolutely ignorant comment" lol ummm... yea I dont think so........ :butthead:
hahah dont even kid your self that it is cheaper to build a gm/chevy engine.....


Cept it is if you know what you're doing. Bet you there more fast SBC cars than all ford engines combined. Thankfully GM made more than one car worth putting them in :bigthumb:

[K-ville]

Bet you there more fast SBC cars than all ford engines combined.

ill give you that one! SBC are like assholes everybody has one!

[stangvortech]

"absolutely ignorant comment" lol ummm... yea I dont think so........ :butthead:
hahah dont even kid your self that it is cheaper to build a gm/chevy engine.....


Cept it is if you know what you're doing. Bet you there more fast SBC cars than all ford engines combined. Thankfully GM made more than one car worth putting them in :bigthumb:

haha umm no kitch..... :heart: you coming tommorrow to get my car tuned or not?????????? u best call me...... :rolleyes:

[Domestic Disturbance]

because there are MANY more mustangs than camaros out there, i cant swing a dead cat in a mall without hitting 3-4 tilted flat bill hat wearing rustang drivers..

That statement right there was just plain retarded. So I can in turn say that every F body owner is a toothless mullet haired hick?


building ford motors is factually much more expensive then building most gm engines...

This is true for a few reasons.
1. Ford has more engine familys than GM.
A. GM= Big block and small block
B. Ford= FE, 385, Windsor, Cleveland, Modular, Modified etc.
2. If you don't know how to save money building a Ford motor don't even try. (Speaking of SBF Windsors here)
3. Our engines aren't as easy to mix parts because of all the families. Meaning parts from a 390 won't work on say a 351. Unlike on a GM where parts on say a 400 will work just fine on say a 350.

You like GM's great, enjoy. We like Fords. We can argue till the end of time which car is better but no one will win. From my stand point the Mustang has for years been a good seller because of PRICE not because it was better in anyway. Sure the Camaro always had more horsepower but GM found out that doesn't sell cars when the price is to high. Maybe GM is starting to learn things from watching Ford. Oh, and remember Camaro fans, if the Mustang had never come to be GM would have never designed the Panther concept which became the Camaro :yawinkle:


/rant

Obviously you haven't been here long, as theres a lot of 'mullet guy' stereotypes thrown around here than fed back to the mustang boys. Also, just cause you don't know the many families of GM engines doesn't mean they arent there. W engines, gen iii & iv sbc(which if you don't know, share almost nothing from old sbc's), vortec lt1 reverse flow engines, along with newer gen bbc the list goes on. Who cares most of the old chevies share parts, thats why they are so cheap. I won't argue whats better or worse as its only opinion.

A lot of people get too wound up with this. All are viable platforms otherwise they wouldn't be so popular in the performance world. There's a reason you never see many dragged out kia's, honda's, and nissans at the tracks. Sure they could be made fast with limitless funds, but why go the less efficient way?

[Domestic Disturbance]

haha umm no kitch..... :heart: you coming tommorrow to get my car tuned or not?????????? u best call me...... :rolleyes:

thought you were going friday?

[XR4LIFE]

There's a reason you never see many dragged out kia's, honda's, and nissans at the tracks. Sure they could be made fast with limitless funds, but why go the less efficient way?

To be different then everyone else?

[stangvortech]

haha umm no kitch..... :heart: you coming tommorrow to get my car tuned or not?????????? u best call me...... :rolleyes:

thought you were going friday?

thursday night my app is at 10 on friday........

[Domestic Disturbance]

There's a reason you never see many dragged out kia's, honda's, and nissans at the tracks. Sure they could be made fast with limitless funds, but why go the less efficient way?

To be different then everyone else?

I meant there's recipes that work for good money, and some that don't. We know how easy it is to make power with 2.3t's too. It's a proven powerplant, like the rest stated here, just not as popular. Endless arguement continue...

[85XR7Project]

I wasn't arguing that the Ford was the cheaper solution or better in any way. I like Fords and GMs (I love my GTP) I just prefer the Ford. You're right, I don't know the GM engine families but agree that they are cheaper because the parts can intermix. What I am trying to say that our argument of which is better is pointless because its unwinnable, on one side you have the GM guys who love the Camaro, the other you have Ford guys who love their Mustangs. There really isn't a middle ground. I'll be honest the new Camaro is great but if you've read the reviews they handle like a dog compared with the Mustang, I can't help but wonder why they even decided to go with that IRS since it doesn't handle all that well. Sure the Camaro has more power but its heavier so it really doesn't smoke the doors off the Mustang but at the same time doesn't exactly lose to it either. As I said, I like the Camaro but prefer the Mustang, sure the Mustang isn't exactly the best car in the world but it makes us Ford guys happy.

[FiFdYnUtZ]

so now your calling ME ignorant for saying that when everyone agrees that its cheaper to build a gm motor? hmmm...wrong...how much did that 4v cost you? prolly more then my entire car and mods and i would be willing to throw up some change i could take you on spray...

[Domestic Disturbance]

Agreed. I do have a small dispute over that last part. The magazines have really fogged up the handling of the new Camaro vs Mustang. Its the track pack mustang that handles better, as well it should, but that tightly setup of susp. is unrealistic for all production models. Thats why all mustangs don't come with it. Its the same as v6/v8 options, not everyone wants that power or needs it. Same with the need for IRS. From a drag racing point of view its a hassle, but from a wide prospective its realistic as far as ride comfort, increased handling, etc.

Kudo's to ford for making the track pack does its job so well. Hopefully when GM turns its shit around it'll have an answer back

[K-ville]

so now your calling ME ignorant for saying that when everyone agrees that its cheaper to build a gm motor? hmmm...wrong...how much did that 4v cost you? prolly more then my entire car and mods and i would be willing to throw up some change i could take you on spray...

my fox went 10.80's I bought it for 5800.00 and it did it with full interior and 93 octane N/A. Im sure a 100 shot would have done it wonders since it was built for spray but never had it and would have put my cost of vehicle and mods to 6500.00 give or take a few bucks. all it had was a baby 347 with a carb and a c4 trans. Tell me you can run that time with your car for less! Now im not saying a faster car cant be built cheaper because they can and a chevy would be cheap to do it with but you are so bowtie blinded that you cant see there are other good options out there. the F-body is not the only car worth building since its what you have. my next summer DD is going to be a ls1 camaro so dont try and make me out as a rustang only guy because im not i like them all

[85XR7Project]

Agreed. I do have a small dispute over that last part. The magazines have really fogged up the handling of the new Camaro vs Mustang. Its the track pack mustang that handles better, as well it should, but that tightly setup of susp. is unrealistic for all production models.

Yes, you're right I did forget that they were using the track pack Mustangs in those shoot outs.


Same with the need for IRS. From a drag racing point of view its a hassle, but from a wide prospective its realistic as far as ride comfort, increased handling, etc.

Kudo's to ford for making the track pack does its job so well. Hopefully when GM turns its shit around it'll have an answer back

I agree, I actually look forward to all three automakers (I don't expect much from the new Italian Dodge) getting into the muscle car wars again. I am pumped to see Chevy dole out some awesome new suspension setups. Although I am not a fan of IRS it really does have its advantages. I'm sure the Camaro rides better than the Mustang down a bumpy road like the magazines said but I'll be honest I actually like the fact that Ford stuck with the solid rear axle. The thing that irritates me most is that the magazines roast the Mustang for having "An out dated rear suspension" but yet Dodge and Chevy's contributions still run an outdated OHV setup? Remember the last time GM ran a DOHC 5.7? That was the amazing LT5 why can't they do that again?

[FiFdYnUtZ]

i am in no way saying there arent other good options out there, the fox is one of the most prominent drag racing platforms out there and your blind if you dont see that but all im saying is in the past 20 years the mustang hasnt done much for itself over gm other then a few exceptions...this arguement as stated could go on forever, im just throwing in my .02 as i see it and have experienced it.

[allgo]

so now your calling ME ignorant for saying that when everyone agrees that its cheaper to build a gm motor? hmmm...wrong...how much did that 4v cost you? prolly more then my entire car and mods and i would be willing to throw up some change i could take you on spray...

you can buy a complete 04 mod motor with all harnesses and computer for $4000.

[K-ville]

so now your calling ME ignorant for saying that when everyone agrees that its cheaper to build a gm motor? hmmm...wrong...how much did that 4v cost you? prolly more then my entire car and mods and i would be willing to throw up some change i could take you on spray...

you can buy a complete 04 mod motor with all harnesses and computer for $4000.

and add 4500 for a Vortech and make 900hp :bigthumb:

[85XR7Project]

you can buy a complete 04 mod motor with all harnesses and computer for $4000.

You can always get Lincoln Mark VIII engines for CHEAP as hell too. They are for the most part the same darn thing. I know where I can get a 4V 4.6 for about $300 right now, you know where I can get an LS1 for that kind of coin :yawinkle: ?

[K-ville]

you can buy a complete 04 mod motor with all harnesses and computer for $4000.

You can always get Lincoln Mark VIII engines for CHEAP as hell too. They are for the most part the same darn thing. I know where I can get a 4V 4.6 for about $300 right now, you know where I can get an LS1 for that kind of coin :yawinkle: ?

actually there are alot of differences but they are very small. need the better crank for big power

[FiFdYnUtZ]

you can buy a complete 04 mod motor with all harnesses and computer for $4000.

You can always get Lincoln Mark VIII engines for CHEAP as hell too. They are for the most part the same darn thing. I know where I can get a 4V 4.6 for about $300 right now, you know where I can get an LS1 for that kind of coin :yawinkle: ?


no but you can get one for around 1k if you look and it will hold and make much more power for less money ;)

[85XR7Project]

Those engines stock make 290-300 Hp just so you know.

[FiFdYnUtZ]

ls1's have made over 325-340 to the wheels stock, just so you know...

[Domestic Disturbance]

but yet Dodge and Chevy's contributions still run an outdated OHV setup? Remember the last time GM ran a DOHC 5.7? That was the amazing LT5 why can't they do that again?

The OHV design of the newer engines is like the leaf springs on vettes. Far more advanced than they sound. SOHC/DOHC designs make more power per cubic inch, especially with 4v/cyl., but there's many draw backs. Price, size, weight. Its a hard balance of which you're willing to choose. Before the LS1 was ok'd for the next engine to be designed, there was a large dispute which direction to go; either ohc or ohv. The ohv engines of the time were very outdated, but blind performance tests voted new age ohv over ohc. The new ohv engines do make great horsepower per cube, as most ls1's make over 400bhp new.

GM does have experience with ohc engines, not just the co-lotus designed lt5. The northstars, despite their many small issues with gaskets etc actually make decent power per cube. I believe the 4.4L SC'd engine in the XLRv or STSv makes 469bhp. Many people argue the northstar is outdated but its really not that old as it is forgotten, and GM learned many pro's and con's from that engine. I think the advances made in the LS series of engines just outweighed what the northstars could achieve. Mod engines weren't always the best in the beginning either. Early 4.6 gt's made terrible HP numbers, and lt1's out performed them then. I think GM and Ford both have it figured out pretty well with the LSx and Mod series engines, as they both keep making more and more power the more the revamp them(not sure if this new boss engine is still considered mod or not). Like I said, ohv may sound outdated but its a lot more potent than most assume. The wheel has been around for awhile, but it hasn't become outdated. :biggrin: I like the fact that there are multiple good power plants that are so different.

[snickerlicker]

ls1's have made over 325-340 to the wheels stock, just so you know...

Who is your crack dealer?? I personally witnessed Allgo's Z06 Vette make 330rwhp on the dyno, and thats an LS6. Sorry not buying the 325-340 to the wheels on an LS1.

[85XR7Project]

ls1's have made over 325-340 to the wheels stock, just so you know...

Again I point out I can get my 290-300Hp for around $300 and up how much can you get yours for? Pretty sure if I spent what you did I could have that kind of Hp too. :yawinkle:

[Domestic Disturbance]

ls1's have made over 325-340 to the wheels stock, just so you know...

Who is your crack dealer?? I personally witnessed Allgo's Z06 Vette make 330rwhp on the dyno, and thats an LS6. Sorry not buying the 325-340 to the wheels on an LS1.

Its no lie. Factory freaks have made more than that too. Depends on the years too, but 98-02 avg. I would say 305-330 range, with some making more or less. What year z06 was Joe's? The early one or the 405hp rated one?

And xr7 are you talking wheel or crank hp

[allgo]

mine was a 01 with a cai...

[69gt4speed]

Well Tyler a 99 cobra ran a 11.86 at 117 mph.. Stock mtr w lts and camaro weight or a lil less w tires. That was w a crappy irs too. Of course a manual. Here's the time slip... This is 281 c.i. just so you know. I think that is down right kick azz for a 281 n/a mtr w stock cams and heads. Run that w a .390 lift 190 deg duration cam on a 2v.
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/7161/pictures040.jpg

[Domestic Disturbance]

mine was a 01 with a cai...
Seems about right to me then. Maybe a little low, but I'm not sure with it being the smaller cam z06.

[snickerlicker]

Can't race dyno #'s..... BTW that same Z06 went 12.1@117 on d/r and with the cai, faster than many of the so called higher hp 02-04 Z06's. Too many variables in dyno #'s.

[85XR7Project]

Not to mention from dyno to dyno the numbers will more than likely be different.

[Domestic Disturbance]

Can't race dyno #'s..... BTW that same Z06 went 12.1@117 on d/r and with the cai, faster than many of the so called higher hp 02-04 Z06's. Too many variables in dyno #'s.

Not bad. I don't know enough about either of those cam's to know how their power curves compare, just know later years made more HP. Not big enough to interest me.

Wasn't trying to race with dyno #'s either, but its a good basis to understand how an engine performs fundamentally. No small blocks from any camp were making that power 20 years ago.

[69gt4speed]

I can't confirm this yet. Hopefully it's fact. The bore center deal. If based on fe bore spacing (4.63) as the sohc prototype was... which was run by Don Bowles... 500 c.i. would be available. I am sick and tired of 281 c.i. or 330 c.i. They do great but man this would be a whole new level. Ford trucks def need more c.i., that would be a way to pay for stang mtrs.

http://speedzzter.blogspot.com/2009/03/ ... atest.html (http://speedzzter.blogspot.com/2009/03/is-2011-ford-coyote-v8-dohc-get-latest.html)

[snickerlicker]

Can't race dyno #'s..... BTW that same Z06 went 12.1@117 on d/r and with the cai, faster than many of the so called higher hp 02-04 Z06's. Too many variables in dyno #'s.

Not bad. I don't know enough about either of those cam's to know how their power curves compare, just know later years made more HP. Not big enough to interest me.

Wasn't trying to race with dyno #'s either, but its a good basis to understand how an engine performs fundamentally. No small blocks from any camp were making that power 20 years ago.


I agree, new technology ftw!

[69gt4speed]

Btw last I heard new boss 5.0 suppose to have a 4.0 bore and 4.3 bore spacing. That would still work imo. Only thing that doesn't make sense is the raptor is suppose to be a 6.2l unless like windsor or 5.4 deck height is more.

[black88gt]

http://wot.motortrend.com/6620307/we-he ... index.html (http://wot.motortrend.com/6620307/we-hear/2011-ford-mustang-gt-to-receive-412-hp-50l-v-8/index.html)

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/12/17/2011 ... r-5-0l-v8/ (http://www.autoblog.com/2009/12/17/2011-ford-mustang-gt-to-offer-412-horsepower-5-0l-v8/)

[69gt4speed]

Camaro guy at work has been barking about camaro out selling the present gt stang... Sh-t I'd wait also like I did for the 03. Looks to me a winner if price is right... We can say stock 12's w decent driving. As I always said competition is good. You tell me what a +250# less weight car w almost same hp will do w some good tires. Pretty sure ford has it covered. Btw that manual mt-82 suppose to be a joint ford/getrag transmission so hopefully it shifts good.

[black88gt]

ya the mt-82 is a sweet trans, close ratio 6 speed w/ single overdrive instead of the wasted 5th on most like t56.

[sLoWnStEaDy]

I have seen this on other forums.

HAHAHA the stupid mullet Chevy guys are going to cry once again being owned by a mustang.

LOL... they should be plenty used to it by now!

[Domestic Disturbance]

I know why the mustang isn't selling as much. its that poop rearend they let stevie wonder design. Wouldn't buy a new car that the rear already looks like it got hit. Front looks great though. Thankfully we can tell the GT aliens have landed, they parked their saucer on the trunk lid.
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2009/03/2010mustanggtabg_06.jpg

[85XR7Project]

Actually the rear sorta grows on you after a while

[snickerlicker]

^ x2, the new GT's look sweet. Get used to looking at the taillights, you will see alot of them....!!

[Scott]

The rear end of those cars is still ugly in my opinion.. cant believe they did that

[85XR7Project]

I actually think the front end is much better than the previous gen and think the rear end was better on the previous gen than the 2010+. It is a much better car than the previous gen though in my opinion.

[Domestic Disturbance]

Agree'd on the front. I think they look mean as hell. But the back is just proportionally odd. The fact is it juts outward and keeps getting wider just looks wrong. This isn't a 47 fleetline, it can't pull it off. The taillights look good too, if they were vertical and not at a slope. In the end its all opinions. I don't have to worry bout seeing many back ends snicker, cause my car is consistently quicker than these... for now atleast.

[69gt4speed]

Dd take me for instance when I heard about the 03 coming I waited for it and saved some $. Every stang guy pretty much knows a 400 hp stang is coming hopefully at a decent price. I think ppl are waiting. Honestly w 400hp I'd take a 2010 stang cause I know it whip the crap out of a lot of cars.

[Mufflover]

I think it looks like a pile, the challenger looks 100% better, then the camaro, then the mustang in that order.

[sparkles]

Yeah, but it's no secret you like things with pork.

[85XR7Project]

I think it looks like a pile, the challenger looks 100% better, then the camaro, then the mustang in that order.

Something you and the mustang have in common eh? You both look like a pile of shit.

[DustinsDuster]

i too like the Challenger best- it seems to be the most subtle; but id put the stang in second. it's flashier, but no where near as gaudy as the Camaro.

[69gt4speed]

Cars are not sold on looks alone... only to old guys and not me either... I want less pork and more hp w decent mileage and be able to cruise 80 mph... And run 12's stock for a joe avg v8 gt for 32k max.. Oh btw it is official 412 hp for the 5.0 stang.