SBF people (or an older V8 people I guess)

[sLoWnStEaDy]

Well, I put ht emotor back in the RX7 after converting it from EFI to carb and now I can't get it running... I am 95% sure it is just the timing, I am not all that knowledageable on carb'd motors.

here is what i did:

got #1 to TDC on the compression stroke
had the rotor pointing at the wire closest to the vacuum advance
firing order I did was 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 (originaly had it 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8)
fuel pressure is right on at 5psi (Holley 600)
dist. is an HEI, ignition is an MSD 6A

firing orders: http://www.302w.com/Firing-Order.aspx


I am not 100% sure what firing order I should be using since it was a 5.0HO that I converted to a carb with and HEI/MSD-6A... someone said ti would just be a standard SBF firing order now that the ECU isn't involved...?
Any ideas? or anyone bored and want to come over and give me a hand sometime soon?

[black88gt]

firing order will depend on the cam, so it should be the HO firing order

did you make sure you started at the #1 wire?

try following this to the T, as far as wire location on the cap

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/attachments/5-0l-tech/50317d1219541826-1989-mustang-gt-firing-order-timing-zfiringorder-5.0.jpg

[sLoWnStEaDy]

That is what i thought but i wan't 100% sure and I wasn't going to argue abotu something I didn't knwo about so... ;)


well then, my timing/firing order seems to be fine...? I guess I am more confused now. It ran just fine when it was EFI.... I have fuel, spark and compression but with the flames out the carb it has to be timing right? ARGH!!!


EDIT: THERES my problem!!! I did it "clock wise", needs to be COUNTER clockwise! I'll let you knwo what happens. Since I already made sure #1 was TDC when i put the #1 wire on I should be able ot just swap the plugs around and be good right?

[Scott]

yeah probably in the timing I would guess.. what I have done in the past is hook up the timing light, turn the engine till pointer is at desired timing "20-25 degrees should work" on the compression of #1 cylinder, turn on ignition and loosen dist, rotate dist by hand fairly fast and pay attention to where the dist is when the light flashes because that is where you should set your dist.. then start it and fine tune your timing with the light. does that make sense?

[black88gt]

should be better if fix the wires

[sLoWnStEaDy]

Scott: that doe snot make sense to me at all honestly... I have done 30+ newer motors with timing belts, I hav enever really set the timing on carb'd V8... I think the last time I actualy did this style of timing was back in high school.

I don't even have a timing light... If someone knows what they are doing and has a timing light they can come on over. Don't really have any cash to offer up or anything but I have a bunch of rims/tires someone could take as "payment" for helping me out. some of them still have the rubber nipples, 17" truck tires, 16" truck tires, 15" truck tires, 14" car tires on 5X4.5 rims etc... Or I have a 300cu.in. ford Inline 6 someone could have :)

[sLoWnStEaDy]

edit to remove my number.... Just in case...

[warchild145]

Basically if you went clockwise instead of counterclockwise, leave the number 1 cylinder in the same spot but now put the one next in line for firing order on the correct side running in the counter clockwise position. You should fix your problem then.

If you don't have this fixed by Sunday, let me know, I have a timing light and can swing down and help ya out when I get off from my 36 hour shift at work.

[Scott]

Im not 100% on your post warchild?? That firing order and top view of the distributor that black88 posted is correct. Keith when you think your at TDC on compression stroke with #1 cyl, look at your balancer and the timing pointer should be close to pointed at the TDC mark "0 degrees" on the balancer.. then drop in the distributor without the cap on it but first make a mark on the dist where the #1 plug wire terminal is and line that mark up with the rotor, put everything back together, "just line the #1 plug terminal on the cap with the rotor" maybe turn the dist just a little bit CLOCKWISE and try to start it, then a little more clockwise and try to start it again and repeat... you will need a timing light eventually, I am racing at the downs tonight but maybe tomorrow I can bring over a timing light and check it out

[warchild145]

basically to correct himself if he went the wrong direction is to unhook all the plug wires from the cap except #1 as it is still correctly placed and now place them in the correct order.

That should get everything close enough to get it running without a backfire through the carb unless your distributor is 180* off.

[sLoWnStEaDy]

Couldn't get the damn thing to run... Ended up saying F-it and started in the new shifter install.

I am going to start from scratch in the morning and give it another try. If i get it running, I will be sure to post. Otherwise feel free to give me a call if you are "out and about" with a timing light :)

[69gt4speed]

Timing... I've done cranking rpm timing by hooking up the timing light then cranking it and rotating the dist. Usually I mark w white paint my desired timing at cranking speeds 12 to 15 deg. You are hooking pickup to #1 wire? Like said same ho cam? Otherwise 15426378. That's the old setup. Yea what warchild said could be 180 deg off... sure way to tell is high pressure on #1 cylinder and timing pointer around 8 /20 and dist rotor at #1. Worst case pull valve cover for #1 cyl look at timing pointer for tdc stop cranking when tdc and both valves closed on #1 then put in dist with rotor pointing to #1. Then you need to make sure what cam you have to wire dist. As you see by 88gt it runs down one side at a time not like a chevy.

[sLoWnStEaDy]

Thanks everyone! I started from scratch and basicaly fallowed Scotts posting adn she is up and running again! Let me tell you it sounds SO much better than before! those 1-5/8" - 3" open headers almost brought a tear to my eye!

Only thing i have left now is to get a new driveshaft made, put in a new alum. radiator and do some burnouts! I MIGHT even be able to take it to the track again and see how she does now that its carb'd. I will have to get my 4.10 LSD in there before I take it to the track though, open diff./IRS sucks!!! I'll keep you'all updated! should have everythign here next weekend for it to be driveable. This means of course I am putting the Astro/SPL vehicle on a bit of a hold... My neighbor bought liek 5 flood houses though and I have paint contracts on all of them :supz: :bigthumb: :drool: :biggrin:

[DustinsDuster]

do you need an aluminum radiator? i have the basic circletrack radiator that was in my Duster- kept it cool with no shroud and a plastic flex fan. also have an external trans cooler from my Duster as well...

[sLoWnStEaDy]

I do need an alum. radiator... I was just looking at some actualy. If you can give me the all the info I might be interested... brand, demensions, rows, inlet/outlet position/size etc... pictures don't hurt either, Or if you don't mind may be I could just snag it sometime really quick and just physicaly see if it fits adn everything. I am on the SW side now days, kind of by Kingston (moving this spring though, neighborhhod is going to shit and is getting pretty "dark")

max I can fit is 26" wide, 18" tall and 3" thick... I am looking for a 3-row but a 2-row should do most likely...

[DustinsDuster]

measurements are 22x19x2 1/4, info can be found on it here:

http://performanceparts.com/part.php?partID=431600

i live on the SW side as well, if you wanted to swing by and pick it up to check it's fit, i am fine with that.

and a pic:

[sLoWnStEaDy]

Wanna PM me a price and your phone number to get a hold of you if the price is right... :)

the other one I am looking at is a mustang (24-1/2 x 17-3/8 x 2-1/8) - 3 Row aluminum with a lifetime warranty on sale right now for $140 shipped. it's an ebay one made my "radiator guys" but they have 1600+ positive feedback so might not to too bad...

so can anyone tell me what the firing order on a b303 cam is?

because my 1 2 3 4 wires are on the drivers side and 5 6 7 8 on the passenger side.

let me know

[sLoWnStEaDy]

B303 cam should still use the stock 5.0HO firing order...

what year is yours? 1234 are passenger side, 5678 are drivers side so....? The picture posted in the first response is what you should use...

[85XR7Project]

Yeah B303 is a 5.0HO/351W firing order.

Slow, did you by chance degree your cam?

[sLoWnStEaDy]

No... I did not...

[69gt4speed]

Still being a b303 ford part approved it should be pretty close w timing marks lined up. B303 been around forever. First ford aftermarket cam for a 5.0. Doesn't have 4 cams to jack with/up. Brian wolfe ran 11's w that cam and gt40 heads/intake. That a stick? Then enter into the 5/6 speed runoff...

Yeah its a 5 speed.

I would but two reasons why I wont.

The trans chucked the countershaft and I replaced that and now its making some sweet noise.

two I live in alabama now...

B303 cam should still use the stock 5.0HO firing order...

what year is yours? 1234 are passenger side, 5678 are drivers side so....? The picture posted in the first response is what you should use...

Well somethings not right.

My is 1234 on drivers side 5678 on passenger side. Runs fine.

Tried to swap it around no dice.

I also dont have the tools to fix this the right way. I cant take out #1 plug and put it at TDC and get teh distributor right. once I get a job down here everything will be fine. My number one deal is getting a trans for my car.

[black88gt]

B303 cam should still use the stock 5.0HO firing order...

what year is yours? 1234 are passenger side, 5678 are drivers side so....? The picture posted in the first response is what you should use...

Well somethings not right.

My is 1234 on drivers side 5678 on passenger side. Runs fine.

Tried to swap it around no dice.

I also dont have the tools to fix this the right way. I cant take out #1 plug and put it at TDC and get teh distributor right. once I get a job down here everything will be fine. My number one deal is getting a trans for my car.

is the dizzy 180 out? if you cant take out a plug you can go off rocker arms. turn it over by hand and the intake will open and close and just as the exhaust starts to move stop, you should be real close.

I belive the distributor is 180 out.

Thats the only way it could be like this.

[Rollin on Dubs]

[quote="sLoWnStEaDy"] I have fuel, spark and compression but with the flames out the carb it has to be timing right? ARGH!!!


quote]

If you have problems with it running rich, you could have a blown power valve (especially if it is an older carb with no PV protector), they can usually take a few backfires but, Flame thrower mode tends to do in the power valve in a hurry.

[Scott]

and if its in a van its hell on dash boards too ;) damn chevy firing order!! Sorry I didnt make it over the other day I had too much to do, I was busy moving someone and I loaned the timing light out to someone anyway I forgot about that.. glad you got it running and our info actually helped, once you get the total timing set on it try putting in light weight springs in that distributor and you might be surprised on the throttle response from the additional timing down low, good luck with it

[Rollin on Dubs]

and if its in a van its hell on dash boards too ;) damn chevy firing order!! Sorry I didnt make it over the other day I had too much to do, I was busy moving someone and I loaned the timing light out to someone anyway I forgot about that.. glad you got it running and our info actually helped, once you get the total timing set on it try putting in light weight springs in that distributor and you might be surprised on the throttle response from the additional timing down low, good luck with it

Explaing what the firing order of a sbc to a bunch of ford guys is like teaching the blind to read!

THE VAN!!!! (my fav was when zach drove it into the side of the quick shop!)