Cash for clunkers program... astounding

[69gt4speed]

Ok after one week w/o a pending extension it's suspended.... 1 billion $ worth, which according to my calculation that's 222,222 clunkers getting trashed at the max 4500 each. I could be off, lot of zeroes there. Somebody check it. Suppose to add another billion to continue it. Or 222,222 new vehicles. Tells me lot of old crap out there w ppl ready to get rid of them. Ok here I go, 500 mill ought to be for the big 3 or at least american assembled cars. Just cause. So about 3/4k rebates + 4.5k clunker money ppl buy lil cars.
Comments?

[DragonUSMC]

welcome to socialism?

Money is free now didnt you know? Its limitless and we need to throw it at everything we can to give EVERYONE free stuff, free health care, free cars, free $$ for homes, handing out SBL's like they are water... etc.etc.

Maybe we shouldnt have wasted the $$ baling GM out in the first place. let people buy Nissans and Toyotas and such instead.

[ZacFields]

I don't mind the cash for clunkers program, really. My only concern is that I don't want to create another "bubble" to burst in a year or two when this program expires. New cars last a long time, and if we get too much of our population to purchase vehicles in this short time-span, then the auto industry could be in for a severe drought in a couple years that could last five years or more.

Environmentally speaking, it's a great thing. We're getting a lot of gas hogging cars off the road and replacing them with cars that are much more fuel efficient and environmentally-friendly. It might help this country reduce it's addiction to trucks and SUVs.

I don't really worry about the socialism aspect of it as long as this program ends at some point. I think the CARS program is meant to be a stimulus, so once the $3 billion is used up, they need to let the program expire (IMO) to avoid giving the auto industry fits in the future.

[DustinsDuster]

but a lot of the "gas guzzler" clunkers arent even on the road and driving regularly, so i question how much they are really hurting the environment at all...

[ZEE]

The program was supposed to end Nov 1st.

It won't reduce the 'addiction' to SUV's and pickups. It's not really an addiction as I see it. More a necessity. You can't carry a family of 5 in a prius or small car. You can't go very far with a family in a compact car because there is no room for luggage. Can't tow a trailer very well unless it's a very small boat. Can't fit 3 child or booster seats in the back of a compact. SUV is far safer in an accident to be in. I'd rather my kids be in an suv if there was an accident. Can't haul anything furniture, lumber etc in a car. Much better in the winter than any car. If you have kids you also appreciate that you can space the kids out so they don't bug each other which goes towards parent sanity. These things are very important to a family. Given the choice for any family an suv or pickup would be first choice due tho the versatility of the vehicle. They can do many things for one price where as a car is limited to basic transportation only.

The US cannot fix the worlds environment. Even if I believed we could China and India who are the largest polluters in the world have told us to f*** off. So anything we do more than we are already are will not make a dent. Besides we shouldn't be killing our economy right now for the sake of the environment. The economy is more important issue than the mythical global warming garbage right now anyways

You can trade in an F150 and get another F150, get 3500 clunker money as long as the new truck gets 1 mpg better. Now thats saving the world right there..

[stangvortech]

more tax payer money out the window...........just stupid

[69gt4speed]

How about cash for old snow boards? 250.00... I'm sure a few would be all over that. I'm all for getting rid of crap after moving. How many times we see junk driving around by middle class ppl w families? Plenty... Sure, I'd rather the car co. themselves offer it. Now if I had a teen at home still, I'd probably offer them the option of driving my old pos 94 tbird. But better would be getting a new lil car for them long term. You know make a deal, they help pay for it. If so all theirs in 3yrs. Btw my 94 is my junk work d/d I drive it plenty. Better mileage than a truck but not what a new lil one would do.

Socialism... ppl always barking about it, tell you what... ask grandma if she would give up s.s. and medicare and come live w you, like it used to be. Hey, I'm a azz sometimes.. :)
Better yet just get rid of ppl at xx age or gets severe injuries that can't work. A damn lead weight on the system.

Let me add the military is riddled w socialism, va, the commissary, va loans, housing, school loans, the list is unending. Sure they fight, but really we all do, we are fighting china, india, japan, europe for a piece of the pie. Everyday I work I am fighting for my job and the usa to get joe avg worldwide to buy our stuff. Economic war is the big picture.

Oh yea dept. of treasury said I should get my 8k in 2 weeks. I look at the thing as a good investment like a great stock tip. And it has rules. And voluntary like the cash for clunkers. Nothing is free. Now and then joe avg is thrown a bone when stuff gets bad and they need us.. to if nothing else get elected.

So dragon and zee do what you want, nobody is forcing you to do anything. And you'll have less ppl running in to you w sh-t no insurance cars and burn less gas so you guys can have more and worry less when a pos rams into back of your car. Evidently ppl have spoken like it or not. 1 billion in a week was spent, ppl like it.

[SaNdMaNsSi]

I hate listening to the constant global warming crap. My brother is super "pay 10,000 more and get a hybrid." All of the tree hugging annoys me so much that the first chance I get I'm buying a Hummer H1 just to balance out all of the people buying Prius's. And for every car thats traded in under this program, I'm driving my 1988 jeep wrangler that gets 8mpg around the block twice.

[69gt4speed]

Well I got damn tired of gov/co saying above ground nuclear tests were fine and ddt was fine, along w tce and everything else in our water and soil. Maybe global warming is bs.

All I know is more ppl get the 4.5k, more gas I'll have for my 500whp 15/25 mpg cobra. I like efficiency not just wasting money for nothing. Sorry you feel that way. Also I figure they have to have insurance to have a loan. I'm sure ins co. are happy too. I don't like prius either maybe in a big city it would make more sense.

The latest figures out are this...
Consumers were opting to use the higher $4,500 rebate over the $3,500 amount by a margin of 2-to-1, eating through the money faster.

So they decided to use the much higher standard for fuel mpg difference.

[SaNdMaNsSi]

I'm going outside right now to burn boxes and boxes of styrofoam cups.

[96-eclipse-gst]

Dustin, the clunkers have to run and drive in order to get the rebate. In all honesty Im not sure how many of you guys work at dealerships but you guys should really see some of these clunkers that come in. They are vehicles that should have been turned in years ago.

Im not agreeing with the program nor the governments actions. Its helping people out, keep others from being laid off, and generating income not only for dealerships but for small mom and pop repair shops too.

As for the $8k for the house, Im hoping to be able to buy a house before that program ends. I work at one of the local dealerships and god I am only make half of what I was. My hope is that I can still buy a house and get that nice rebate. Every bit helps. Also I recently was told by a mortgage broker that they are thinking of bumping it up to $11k possibly.

[69gt4speed]

^ Yes I hear you, 2 ppl got a job where I work, both mechs from zimmerman, one was with zimmerman forever, he just couldn't afford it anymore. Just a lil while ago a toyota mech got a job where I work, same story. Heck my stepdad made 40k in 69/70 at a ford dealership, that ought to be worth 100k now at least.

Good luck on the house. Like I said joe avg. needs a bone now and then even for pos cars and help themselves, the loan co., ins co., auto co. I'd rather do that than pay those co. directly like we been doing.

[NewSpeedSteed]

I'm going outside right now to burn boxes and boxes of styrofoam cups.

Tire fire FTW?

[ZacFields]

Let me add the military is riddled w socialism, va, the commissary, va loans, housing, school loans, the list is unending. Sure they fight, but really we all do, we are fighting china, india, japan, europe for a piece of the pie. Everyday I work I am fighting for my job and the usa to get joe avg worldwide to buy our stuff. Economic war is the big picture.


Good point! I never thought of it that way but you're right. I'm not saying the military doesn't deserve what they get, because my whole family is military and retired military, but you made a really good point there.

[SaNdMaNsSi]

Tire fire at my place! I've got 16 acres, so bring a truckload.

[DustinsDuster]

Tire fire at my place! I've got 16 acres, so bring a truckload.

hahahahahaha, like Springfield in The Simpsons...

[DragonUSMC]

And you'll have less ppl running in to you w sh-t no insurance cars and burn less gas so you guys can have more and worry less when a pos rams into back of your car. Evidently ppl have spoken like it or not. 1 billion in a week was spent, ppl like it.

Yes the military is Socialist, however you cannot have INDIVIDUALS in the military because then no one would listen to their commanders. Military people GIVE UP THEIR FREEDOMS and therefore are provided those things they need to live. A place to live, 3 squares a day, etc. etc.

But this is civilian life we are talking about. These programs arent going to get people car insurance when they hit me. If it does then I"LL BE PAYING FOR IT... therefore its MY auto insurance. Have you ever been to a country with "free healthcare"? like been there for a year or more? Its crappier then the VA!!!

I have to call, then wait over 2 months usually to get in to an appointment at my VA hospital here in Denver... That just takes care of the DISABLED vets and PURPLE HEART recipients. Which is a tiny number of people compared to the number of military members. You only get the "free" healthcare for one year after your service unless you are one of the two listed above.

So now imagine the rest of these fuktards on welfare their whole lives, the entire white collor , and blue collar, now all packing into the SAME hospital. How many months will i have to wait now? Hopefully we will keep the VA cause i'll get better service!

My point is, I DONT WANT TO PAY FOR IT. We have way too much spending already and we are making more... cause its fun!!! All this accomplishes is making more handouts for the people who already live off of them.

Just like cash for clunkers... I agree this is a interesting idea, but they've already put in for another 2billion... so will it ever end? I bet another 6billion will go into it. And why, so the welfare can go trade in their shit and get a new car and never make the payments on it?

[DragonUSMC]

and sorry to make another post... but you are right on the economic war.

But we (the government) has made some REALLY crappy choices when talking about spending the last year.

Sorry but there is a huge reason why GM and the other failed and SHOULD have died. There is a reason most of my electronics are made in japan / china.

we keep raising the min wages which only causes inflation, which makes our shit more expensive then others, which we then have to import and export less, and on top of that oh lets just give this major company a few fuking billion dollars because they just made a boo-boo and we should help them.

WELL FUK! us snowboard instructors are hurting as well! Vail Resorts just gave everyone a pay cut across the board!!! Send me a stimulus seeing we are handing it out for free!!! which will increase the inflation... etc.etc.

we are doing this to ourselves, and people are starting to spend less and live more economically, but we are a society based off of gluttony, greed, sloth, and envy. I dont believe in god at all but even so with a basis of our foundation and just look around you man, thats how the average joe lives! Not in other countries, where we are trying to sell our crap mind you... thats just our crap general population. People dont care about anything until it affects THEM. And everyone else has to pay for it.

[69gt4speed]

I wasn't picking on you or anyone, I like all you guys seriously. You got that right greed etc. is the root of the problem and started some time ago. Who making 8/hr would even apply for a 200k mortgage? Ppl these days have no damn common sense all the way to the top. However there are some decent common sense joe avg. this program could help. Always a few good ppl. The restrictions on this are fair so we will see.

Good luck on the instructing, I like the idea for sure if I wasn't so damn old and wore out.
Make all the posts you want, ppl are ticked off, I don't blame you. All the excess of past is coming to fruitation.

[SaNdMaNsSi]

I have now hooked up 30 industrial sized fans and aimed them into the heart of CR. I am about to drape asbestos blankets over the blades.

[ZacFields]

Well I'm a Republican... always have been and always will be. I'm more of a moderate Republican, though. I agree with what you say, Jay, to an extent. Our political views actually line up pretty well.

I'm all for health care reform. We spend way too much of our GDP on healthcare compared to other countries who have longer life expectancies than we do. I wish a few more Republicans were in Congress so that we could get an actual bipartisan bill up there, but as long as it meets Obama's publicly stated objectives, I am okay with it. He says he won't sign a bill into law if it adds to our deficit, and he won't sign anything into law that doesn't reduce the cost of healthcare in the long run, so that's fair enough for me.

The problem is that healthcare is very expensive now, and the cost is still rising faster than inflation. At some point in the future (at the rate it's rising), people will be spending so much on healthcare that they literally can't afford anything else. We'll be a society made of doctors and nurses, people who grow and sell food, and people who don't have jobs unless they work in one of those two sectors. And it's like Jay says, people don't really care until it affects them. Until someone goes to the emergency room without insurance and gets a $2,000 bill sent your way for seemingly nothing, they're not going to give a rat's ass about healthcare. For those of us who have insurance that's reasonably priced, we tend not to care anything about it, either.

That's exactly how we got into this recession, also. Natural human nature is to be REACTIVE instead of PROACTIVE. We, as a species, tend not to plan for the future on our own. They say that the average 50 year old has less than $50,000 saved for retirement. Why? Because when they were 20, they weren't thinking about what things would be like when they're 50. All those people who bought houses on an adjustable rate mortgage, knowing that eventually that rate was going to get hiked up. They only worry about the "now" and never about the future. So they buy a $200,000 mortgage on a $40,000 household income, and when the payments rocketed up they lost those homes.

I am relieved a lot to see the American savings rate jump up to almost 7% now. I'd like to see that rate move up a bit to about 10% and sustain itself there for the long run. The recession is worldwide, but there are a lot of countries that have weathered this recession much better than we have, because their families have cash. China actually saves 30% of their income, on average. Most of Europe is around 12%. In America, before this recession we were saving less than 1% of our income. If you make $3,000 per month, that's $30. The average American was stretching themselves out so much with big mortgages and debt that they were spending almost exactly what they were making. So what happens when the banks stop loaning money? We're all screwed for about 19 months now (or something like that) because we've been having to wait for people to build up their cash savings to the level at which they'd feel comfortable spending again.

[69gt4speed]

I have now hooked up 30 industrial sized fans and aimed them into the heart of CR. I am about to drape asbestos blankets over the blades.

Dude that doesn't mean crap to me, I'm already screwed.. I had to breath asbestos covered walls and ceilings for yrs, stuck my hand and body close to cesium 137, 200 kv x ray machines, had ddt sprayed on my street, and drank who knows what. Along w the above ground nuclear tests. Been exposed to high field rf energy. 1/4th my classmates are dead we went to school around a refinery. I worked for the gov for yrs they had no safety standards for yrs. All what you say matters squat for me, why I do crazy sh-t. I would just like you guys to have a shot. I not some damn tree hugger, I tote guns, belonged to the nra. However, any common sense person based on data would see what we did then was stupid.

Just cause I'm 60% democrat doesn't really mean anything. I agree like w Zac/Zee many times other times I don't , just like I hang around gm and import guys. I figure I might find out some things, have a good time, a lil competition and go home happy.

I'd say who knows if they pass a cars extension and if so if ppl buy more, I heard a rumor suppose to be tougher.

Btw when I got my 03 cobra loan they verified I had insurance and checked the first yr at least. Protect the loan or they that stupid?

[krustindumm]

It's not so much the gas mileage that is the issue with pollution, it has more to do with the age (and thus the standards it was built to) of the vehicle. Some people are taking advantage of the program, no doubt, and trading in wrecked runners that are only a few years old. Most, though, are taking in the 10-20 yr old vehicle that pollutes more per gallon. The higher fuel economy requirement helps our usage, the improved technology helps the pollution.

Now had they required that everyone buy 'american' it would not result in the 'bubble' that Zac mentioned. Of course, it would just send more money to Canada & Mexico where they are built. They should have required that the new car was more than 60-70% American built, with no requirement on brand origin, IMO.

[SaNdMaNsSi]

I just swapped a triton V10 into a Prius and am driving around in circles just to pick up other people's internet connection.

[DragonUSMC]

I wasn't picking on you or anyone, I like all you guys seriously. You got that right greed etc. is the root of the problem and started some time ago. Who making 8/hr would even apply for a 200k mortgage? Ppl these days have no damn common sense all the way to the top. However there are some decent common sense joe avg. this program could help. Always a few good ppl. The restrictions on this are fair so we will see.

Good luck on the instructing, I like the idea for sure if I wasn't so damn old and wore out.
Make all the posts you want, ppl are ticked off, I don't blame you. All the excess of past is coming to fruitation.

Oh no i didnt take it like that at all... we are all capable here of a political debate without getting mean and nasty... i mean hell we've all hung out with each other to some point or another.

On many points i do agree with you... others i dont, i just simply stated some ways i look at them to maybe help you change your ideas just as your statements make me think of my own beliefs differently.

[69gt4speed]

Sorry Zee I just can't refrain... you understand... ford guy...
Latest news..
Sec. of transportation LaHood said some 80 percent of the traded-in vehicles are pickups or SUVs, meaning many gas-guzzlers are being taken off the road, and the Ford Focus is a leading replacement vehicle.....

[69gt4speed]

Another small tip for those considering buying a house... Admend last yrs return w form 1040x and of course the form 5405. They will add interest on so like in my case it is 8085 and some change. Check is here. There is a special help when you call irs and they help you fill it out.

I am depositing it immediately in case u wondered for projects. 03 should be back this week. Good thing, really ticking me off.

[SaNdMaNsSi]

Lol.....Replacing with the Focus. Trading in a "clunker" for a junker.

[DragonUSMC]

^yeah i would have gone Toyota or Nissan, or hell even scion or kia...



ok well maybe not kia.

[69gt4speed]

^ well at least you have to admit you haven't spent .01 to bail out ford. I think focus is a decent econo box, been around a long time in europe. And yes it's a lot of mazda there at least the 2.0. The 2.3 has no timing belt a big deal to me. It runs a chain like a 4.6. Lots of speed parts also.

[ZacFields]

Come on now, there is nothing wrong with the Ford Focus. I've owned one for two years and if my Cavalier wasn't already sitting at 145,000 miles with absolutely no signs of slowing down ever, I'd say the Focus has been the best car I've ever owned. (Granted, I've only ever really bought economy cars, so I'm actually comparing apples to apples).

Not to mention, the Focus being purchased is just America's way of showing support for the only American car manufacturer that isn't financially going down the tubes right now. In fact, I believe Ford is the only manufacturer (including Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc) that has actually gained profit, reporting a significant profit in July.

Lastly, these people are just doing what they have to do, pretty much. The Ford Focus is generally one of the cheapest domestic cars you can buy. Remember, these people are not rich; that would be why they have 15+ year old cars to trade in. They probably can't afford a $25,000 import, especially when they can get a Focus for $16k.

[tylers88]

I hate listening to the constant global warming crap. My brother is super "pay 10,000 more and get a hybrid." All of the tree hugging annoys me so much that the first chance I get I'm buying a Hummer H1 just to balance out all of the people buying Prius's. And for every car thats traded in under this program, I'm driving my 1988 jeep wrangler that gets 8mpg around the block twice.

Yes thats my kind of thinking there

[DragonUSMC]

But Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc. all have major manufacturing plants here in the US. Which employ US citizens... the profits may go to some big wigs in japan and what not, but what does that differ from going to big wigs here in the US? besides them being taxed?

[69gt4speed]

There is nothing really wrong w that imo dragon we have that damn villager/quest built here. I just don't like the koreans practices, maybe I'm wrong now. On the other hand I sure don't want ford to fail and bail them out.

[DragonUSMC]

^yeah i mean i understand that, but that comes back to the real question why did we have to bail them out in the first place?

[69gt4speed]

The product, the economic bust and legacy costs they were obligated to pay out is the short answer I believe. All car co. are hurting but no one like gm and chrysler which had had huge legacy costs via labor agreements for healthcare and retirement.